Evidence for God from Science

There s a growing movement amongst Messianic Movement called the Jewish Roots Movement.

This movement is a mix of various beliefs about the need to return to Jewish roots of Christianity in such manner as one must keep the OT law, with he exception of the animal sacrificial laws. to the letter in order to demonstrate one loves God. Jewish Roots Movement, while having some great insights into the Hebrew Language, have strayed into heresy. It leads one into a form of ritualism and legalism. Parts of this movement is now straying into denial of the Trinity and as such, a word of warning is needed as well as discernment concerning the Jewish Roots Movement.

Below is a link to the Jews for Jesus website on the Jewish Roots Movement that contain such warning

Jews for Jesus on the Jewish Roots Movement

In the past, here on this forum, I suspected this had happened to a beloved member and moderator who has now left us, as falling into this movement's more legalistic codes and teachings. My prayers for such who stray into the Jewish Roots Movement that they return to the Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ soon.

Back during the mid 1980's, I was part of a group that helped found a Jewish / Christian Messianic church in Northern Colorado based on the Jews for Jesus model of that era. All went well until the Pastor left and a new one arose. I left that group primarily due to its straying into legalism of keeping ceremonial and Sabbath laws that boarder on the insane. The controlling spirit of that place was profound. The leadership would not listen to original members concerns about the direction it was heading so we left. Other folks who got caught up in this kept us apprised of the control and legalism. In fact, they eventually set up a cloth barrier and had the women sit on one side of the meeting hall and the men on the other. It wasn't about Jesus but rather how hasidic-talmud-jewish gentiles must become. Well, that group fell apart, thankfully but sadly too, leaving devastation in its wake.

What started out on a good foundation was corrupted by, what I term back them, a return to Jewish Roots Movement from what how it began. Yes, corrupt men do creep into assemblies and deceive the gullible who do not have a solid word based foundation and walk with Jesus by grace.

So if anyone finds her or him self being led into this - Jewish Roots Movement - please run to the hills and avoid its seduction.

Blessings
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But B. W.,

[devil's advocate] Some will tell us that the OT law was not abolished. Aren't these law keepers just obeying God, and showing their love for Him in accordance with 1 John 5:3, John 14:21, Deuteronomy 7:9, etc.? [/devil's advocate]

RickD wrote:But B. W.,

[devil's advocate] Some will tell us that the OT law was not abolished. Aren't these law keepers just obeying God, and showing their love for Him in accordance with 1 John 5:3, John 14:21, Deuteronomy 7:9, etc.? [/devil's advocate]

Shoo - get away shoo shoo ...
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Just curious B. W.,

Other than our former moderator, do you know anyone else who may be involved with this group?

I know of another member here, who shows signs of possibly being in something like this, but I don't know for sure.

RickD wrote:Just curious B. W.,

Other than our former moderator, do you know anyone else who may be involved with this group?

I know of another member here, who shows signs of possibly being in something like this, but I don't know for sure.

There are a few I have come across now and then but thankfully they are rare. However, on the internet, they have many websites that can sucker punch the unwary. These may have very good Hebrew language, grammar, and word definitions on them that are sound, however, from this they stray a person into guilt over not doing rituals of the OT latter on within their websites written material. For that, is the main reason I mention this. One example is Skip Moen's website. It has some good material on it but he is a Roots legalist who denies the Trinity with Rabbinic fervoring snideness and talks down the nose at those who will not become ritualistic. So reader beware. Even Jews for Jesus warns against him and that is saying a lot!

We do have folks that come here that border line on this form of legalism. Some do not. As long as the attitude of a person mirrors biblical grace for gentiles reflecting this sentiment, then no problem: "That's good one worships on Sunday or does not keep all the feast days, no condemnation from me, go in peace. I do these because I learn about the symbols of Jesus and learn to love the Lord more as I am under grace as well as you. Peace!"

However, when the attitude is like this: "I love God more than you because I keep the Sabbath and feast days and better for it and you must too or else you don't love God..."

...then we have a problem.

I Have found more of the latter who enjoy discovering Jesus in the feast days and do not condemn others for not doing as they. However, there are the opposite, as you well know...
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Is that why Gman no longer posts here? He went to start a new movement.

Kurieuo wrote:Is that why Gman no longer posts here? He went to start a new movement.

I hope Gman was not involved in this movement. He is a good man. Several of his responses here in the past caused me to suspect that there may have been an influence of some type but I could never pin point it. There were several folks that came and went on this forum that were a part of this movement so I bring it up again to warn people of it and how to identify it as many may stumble by divine appointment upon this very thread.

Therefore, if one is basing his or her salvation on legalism of keeping certain aspects of Rabbinic Judaism as one's measure of faith and the faith of others, there is a problem. Guess what - Acts 15:22-29 solved this issue... in the 1st century.

Having myself been involved in the Messianic Movement during the mid 1980's for me was a positive experience until the pastor left the group we helped found in Northern Colorado. All the warnings from those, who were Jews, like Eliezer Urbach warned of the danger of gentiles playing at Judaism were ignored. He lived in Denver CO and was a survivor of the Nazi's in WW2. Here is a short 5 minute video from Eliezer Urbach on his own Testimony

I see the warnings coming to life today all these years later. The Messianic Movement has brought many Jews to know Jesus as well as help to educate gentiles in the richness of the Hebrew Language and of the symbols used in the feast that all point the Jesus and still does. Like all movements, things often stray due to human pride and need to feel significant, and erroneous doctrines caused splits and spin offs that enticed gentiles to play act Rabbinic Judaism of works to prove they love God. The Jewish Root or Identity movement fits this bill.

The best lessons on the Hebrew language came from Messianic Jews who helped me study the language, from that, other truths came to light such as how thoroughly Orthodox Trinitarian the Old Testament really is in the original language and the war waged against revealing this did to this knowledge in modern English translations. I enjoy learning about the symbolism of the Feast days and how these point to Jesus and the Holy Spirit but I do not keep these religiously. They are good to know and help one witness to Jewish folks about Jesus. While on this topic lets address the Sabbath day too from what I learned on this matter.

The true Sabbath day, is unknown in our modern time. It is not on the pagan god Saturn's day (Solar Calendar Day) every year due to the fact that Passover falls on a different solar calendar day of the week every year - just as our own birthdays do. Ancient Hebrew time was based on Lunar calendar month cycles and counted the literal days and modern time is based upon solar calendar time, naming of the days of the weeks after paganism so such strict counting was left forgotten. Simply take one day of the solar week and let that be your Sabbath rest, rather easy and so full of grace that I wonder why folks cannot see this!

Therefore, The Apostle Paul is correct, all fall short of the Glory of God and all break the law of God. In regards to the actual true Sabbath day, even the ones who honor Saturn's day as the seventh day break the Sabbath law every year and do not know it. Thank God Jesus freed us from the curse of breaking the law!

Amen!

Col 2:16-23 NASB, "Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. 18Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.

20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, 21“Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22(which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? 23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence."
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Seems to me that people resort to legalism because it gives them a feeling of "doing something". But it takes away their focus of spiritual, heart-felt relationship with God and replaces it with works.

Messianic Jew, Joseph Shulam makes it pretty clear that Jews don't like the posers. If you're not Jewish you will never be Jewish so quit the acting. That's his basic thought on the Jewish Roots Movement gentiles.

JButler wrote:Seems to me that people resort to legalism because it gives them a feeling of "doing something". But it takes away their focus of spiritual, heart-felt relationship with God and replaces it with works.

Messianic Jew, Joseph Shulam makes it pretty clear that Jews don't like the posers. If you're not Jewish you will never be Jewish so quit the acting. That's his basic thought on the Jewish Roots Movement gentiles.

That covers it well!
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I am the most un-Jewish full Jew you will ever meet.......................

Why anyone would wants the yolk of the law is beyond me.

Jewish Roots?

Kunta Kinte was Jewish?

RickD wrote:Just curious B. W.,

Other than our former moderator, do you know anyone else who may be involved with this group?

I know of another member here, who shows signs of possibly being in something like this, but I don't know for sure.

Yes, sometimes I wonder about B.W. too. That's who you had in mind right?
(he's just trying to raise the issue, so he can introduce it... all a cover)

Kurieuo wrote:

RickD wrote:Just curious B. W.,

Other than our former moderator, do you know anyone else who may be involved with this group?

I know of another member here, who shows signs of possibly being in something like this, but I don't know for sure.

Yes, sometimes I wonder about B.W. too. That's who you had in mind right?
(he's just trying to raise the issue, so he can introduce it... all a cover)

No. Actually, I was thinking of that computer programmer guy from Australia, with the very smart wife.

RickD wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:

RickD wrote:Just curious B. W.,

Other than our former moderator, do you know anyone else who may be involved with this group?

I know of another member here, who shows signs of possibly being in something like this, but I don't know for sure.

Yes, sometimes I wonder about B.W. too. That's who you had in mind right?
(he's just trying to raise the issue, so he can introduce it... all a cover)

No. Actually, I was thinking of that computer programmer guy from Australia, with the very smart wife.

Don't be silly.
https://youtu.be/Uz3uCleE_-4?t=14s

Kurieuo wrote:

RickD wrote:Just curious B. W.,

Other than our former moderator, do you know anyone else who may be involved with this group?

I know of another member here, who shows signs of possibly being in something like this, but I don't know for sure.

Yes, sometimes I wonder about B.W. too. That's who you had in mind right?
(he's just trying to raise the issue, so he can introduce it... all a cover)

Gee whiz Batman, holy memory issue, I forgot all about this subject!

I see the Joker lurking about but he changed his clown face I see....

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