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Sam harris and the immoral God

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:24 am
by Nessa

Re: Sam harris and the immoral God

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:24 am
by Kurieuo
Here's a start I wrote over 10 years ago:
Is An All-Powerful And All-Good God Inconsistent With Evil?

The world isn't without beauty, restraints upon evil (including death), and the good.
A question Sam Harris needs to clearly explain in no uncertain terms is how does the good exist in the world?
CS Lewis wrote:My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I com­paring this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such violent reaction against it? A man feels wet when he falls into water, because man is not a water animal: A fish would not feel wet. Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if I did that, then my argument against God collapsed too—for the argument depended on saying that the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my private fancies. Thus in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist—in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless—I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality—namely my idea of justice—was full of sense. Consequently atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: Just as, if there were no light in the uni­verse and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be without meaning.

Re: Sam harris and the immoral God

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:07 am
by Nessa
Kurieuo wrote:Here's a start I wrote over 10 years ago:
Is An All-Powerful And All-Good God Inconsistent With Evil?

The world isn't without beauty, restraints upon evil (including death), and the good.
A question Sam Harris needs to clearly explain in no uncertain terms is how does the good exist in the world?
CS Lewis wrote:My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I com­paring this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such violent reaction against it? A man feels wet when he falls into water, because man is not a water animal: A fish would not feel wet. Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if I did that, then my argument against God collapsed too—for the argument depended on saying that the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my private fancies. Thus in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist—in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless—I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality—namely my idea of justice—was full of sense. Consequently atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: Just as, if there were no light in the uni­verse and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be without meaning.
Harris starts out the video with statistics. He is conveying something more than just God being a moral monster. Its personal

'You are a statistic. You, the individual, do not matter to God'

I watch that video and know how potent it is. I know because even though I am a christian I believe what Harris is saying is true, at least on some level.

I don't believe I matter.

And if I am a christian and dont believe I matter to God, how can I expect a person to believe that when they arent even a christian.

You were right. Pat answers are not enough. Not potent enough.

Even potent answers arent enough.

Like a doctor explaining in a cold clinical way to a parent why their child is dying

Relational apologetics forgotten.

Where were you when i was in jail...where were you when i was sick...when i was cold and hungry?

What? jesus when were you in jail..when were you sick? i would have visited.....

Re: Sam harris and the immoral God

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:25 am
by RickD
Nessa,

What makes you think God doesn't care about you?

Matthew 10:29-31

29 Are not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 So do not fear; you are more valuable than many sparrows.

Re: Sam harris and the immoral God

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:43 pm
by Nessa
Just personal stuff

Re: Sam harris and the immoral God

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:50 pm
by Nessa
Harris is not appealling so much to the mind but to the emotions. He is wanting people to feel and in doing so is manipulating us with a twisted way of looking at God and what God really thinks of us..which obviously isnt much...at least to him

Re: Sam harris and the immoral God

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:15 pm
by Nessa
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Re: Sam harris and the immoral God

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:34 am
by PaulSacramento
It is the old emotional argument against evil crap.
Sam has NO basis on stating ANY moral issue with what God does or doesn't do UNLESS there is a God and IF there is a God ( and He is the Christian God) then the answer to his question is very easy.
Sam actually knows this, he simply doesn't want anything to do with it.
Its the old confusion that just because you happen to disagree or not like a premise, doesn't mean it is wrong.

Look, morality is either subjective ( in which case what is right or wrong is simply a matter of opinion, in which case Sam's view means nothing) or it is objective, in which case WHAT is the objective moral standard?

If it is God then if fall on us to understand what happens in this world NOT from OUR POV but from God's.

What does that mean?

First off IF God, the Christian God, exists, what does that mean?
It means that ALL that was written and ALL that Jesus testified and said and did is 100% true.
Let that sink in because if that is true that death and suffering are NOT what WE THINK they are.