Evidence for God from Science

This is from the thread: A question for atheist

edwardmurphy wrote:If Pascal's Wager became Pascal's Guarantee then I guess a lot to think about, since my other option would be to have my soul roasted in hellfire for all eternity. It would be an extremely resentful conversion if it happened. If god existed he'd have a lot of explaining to do.

This is an interesting read.

Edward,
May I ask, what you would like to have explained by God?

1over137 wrote:This is from the thread: A question for atheist

edwardmurphy wrote:If Pascal's Wager became Pascal's Guarantee then I guess a lot to think about, since my other option would be to have my soul roasted in hellfire for all eternity. It would be an extremely resentful conversion if it happened. If god existed he'd have a lot of explaining to do.

This is an interesting read.

Edward,
May I ask, what you would like to have explained by God?

Is this forum only for Edward to respond to or is it open for anyone?

Ken

I wasn't expecting my off-hand comment to lead here, but seeing as it has I'm going to take some time and think about it.

Kenny, firstly I would like Edward to respond in this thread. Thanks.

Sorry, been busy.

Let's start with these:

1) God, why are you such a crappy communicator? You've given us your word in a form that means something different to everybody and always has. You could have given us clear, concise wisdom, but instead you went with allegory. What's with that?

2) Why not just reveal yourself and tell us what you want? I anticipate hearing something about free will, but once you add Hell to the equation free will is out the window. So what gives?

3) Explain your rationale for including massive, horrific, random suffering in the world. For example, why was it necessary to have a maggot grow in this 5-year-old's eye? Why is that even a possibility?

edwardmurphy wrote:Sorry, been busy.

Let's start with these:

1) God, why are you such a crappy communicator? You've given us your word in a form that means something different to everybody and always has. You could have given us clear, concise wisdom, but instead you went with allegory. What's with that?

2) Why not just reveal yourself and tell us what you want? I anticipate hearing something about free will, but once you add Hell to the equation free will is out the window. So what gives?

3) Explain your rationale for including massive, horrific, random suffering in the world. For example, why was it necessary to have a maggot grow in this 5-year-old's eye? Why is that even a possibility?

1.God communicates with us in many ways but a person must be open to hearing from God.The bible tells us we are as believers the body of Christ made up of many members so a tad different interpretations is not going to change anything,only false doctrine that can be in the church.A person must humble theirself before God and not expect God tohumblehimself because he already did humble himself in the formof a man.This is God almighty in human flesh humbles as a man and he experienced suffering just like we do,no other god can say this or understand our pain and suffering.Sin has consequences and we have all sinned hence bad can fall on the just and bad and many of us have testimonies of God answring our prayers and bringing us through different storms of life.

This idea that God should intervene so that nobody suffers when we have all sinned is flawed thinking because althroughout the bible we see the strugg;les of God's people and God was honest with us.The bible tells us that all of those who live Godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecutiion.Jesus told us the world would hate us because of our belief in him and that at times people would even kill us thinking it is of God to do so.God never promised anybody no suffering so we should not expect it,we will all be compensated when we get to heaven.Sorry for thelong answer but there is alot of misunderstanding about God.


2.Jesus will reveal himself when we seek,even in Jesus's day people asked him to give them a sign he was who he said he was,while he was healing the sick,raising the dead,doing miracles everybody could see and know about and he was still rejected by some.This idea God is going to write his name in the sky is just foolish reasoning.Jesus said plainly seek and you shall find,the bible even tells us God hides from us trying to get us to seek him.

Why do you think God should allow unrepentant sinners into heaven? Is the question,not the fact hell is a real place that sinners goto.God hasmade a way for youto be saved by sending Jesus to save you and yet you are saying,no God I'm not going todo it your way butmy way and if you send me to hell? You're an evil God.

2nd Peter 3:9" The Lord is not slack concerning his promise,as some men count slackness;but is longsuffering to us-ward,not willing that any should perish,but that all should come to repentance." Man must repent,not God and God us a just God sending those who defy God's way to hell ,live as they choose to and then expect God to overlook it on judgment day?It is not going to happen.You have free-will and can do it God's way or your way and God will let you do it your way and suffer the conseqences for it if you choose to.You have the problem,not God,by expecting God to overlook your sin and allow you into heaven.You are now choosing whom you will serve yourself or God.

3.Read Genesis about Adam and Eve and what God told them would happen if they ate of that one tree.I cannot understand this worldly thinking where man thinks he can live in sin and not suffer for it in this life.The bible tells us for the wages of sin is death:but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.Why would a man think he can willfully live in sin breaking the laws of God and expect it to be overlooked by God?

Justice is very important to man and God and not only to man,this is why we have laws because we desire justice and God does too/Humble yourself and don't buy into this idea that you can make God change that goes against what his word says.God's will be done in the earth is what we should expect not for God to overlook your sin and prevent suffering in our fallen world.there will be no more suffering in heaven but not in this world.

This thread is for Ed and Hana so let's not let our own posting dominate or derail this thread.

edwardmurphy wrote:Sorry, been busy.

Let's start with these:

1) God, why are you such a crappy communicator? You've given us your word in a form that means something different to everybody and always has. You could have given us clear, concise wisdom, but instead you went with allegory. What's with that?

Because, we are lousy at listening...

edwardmurphy wrote:2) Why not just reveal yourself and tell us what you want? I anticipate hearing something about free will, but once you add Hell to the equation free will is out the window. So what gives?

He did but folks like you refuse to see...and hear...

edwardmurphy wrote:3) Explain your rationale for including massive, horrific, random suffering in the world. For example, why was it necessary to have a maggot grow in this 5-year-old's eye? Why is that even a possibility?

We are responsible for making a mess out of the world...
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Thank you B.W..

Ed, will get back to you. Please, be patient with me too.

edwardmurphy wrote: Sorry, been busy.

No problem.

edwardmurphy wrote: Let's start with these:

1) God, why are you such a crappy communicator? You've given us your word in a form that means something different to everybody and always has. You could have given us clear, concise wisdom, but instead you went with allegory. What's with that?

Matthew 13:10-16
The Purpose of the Parables

10 Then the disciples came and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” 11 And he answered them, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.14 Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says:

“‘“You will indeed hear but never understand,
and you will indeed see but never perceive.”
15 For this people's heart has grown dull,
and with their ears they can barely hear,
and their eyes they have closed,
lest they should see with their eyes
and hear with their ears
and understand with their heart
and turn, and I would heal them.’
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear. 17 For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

God is not crappy communicator. It is our hearts that have grown dull, it is our eyes we closed, it is our ears that barely hear.

edwardmurphy wrote: 2) Why not just reveal yourself and tell us what you want? I anticipate hearing something about free will, but once you add Hell to the equation free will is out the window. So what gives?

He revealed himself to us and told us what he wants.

Read Jesus' sermon on the mount
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... thew%205-7

edwardmurphy wrote: 3) Explain your rationale for including massive, horrific, random suffering in the world. For example, why was it necessary to have a maggot grow in this 5-year-old's eye? Why is that even a possibility?

This world is a great display of the separation from God. It is a broken world we live in after the rebellion of angels and disobedience of people.

You know, when one sees that the more man rules the worse the world gets, one then appreciates God a lot more. Adam and Eve wanted to try not to listen to God.
But if they sinned why we have to suffer too? Question is whether also we would try not to listen to God and be our own gods.

God created people to have loving relationship with them. And that requires certain amount of freedom. Freedom to also reject him.

edwardmurphy wrote:Sorry, been busy.

Let's start with these:

1) God, why are you such a crappy communicator? You've given us your word in a form that means something different to everybody and always has. You could have given us clear, concise wisdom, but instead you went with allegory. What's with that?

2) Why not just reveal yourself and tell us what you want? I anticipate hearing something about free will, but once you add Hell to the equation free will is out the window. So what gives? o

3) Explain your rationale for including massive, horrific, random suffering in the world. For example, why was it necessary to have a maggot grow in this 5-year-old's eye? Why is that even a possibility?

Ive often thought God seems like a crappy communicator myself, and im sure im not the only christian to think that at one time or another. Or I maybe Im just the black sheep I guess. So I just want to say I get where you are comming from.


Also with the maggot question, it seems to me your question is more one of purpose?
What was the purpose of it?

As for free will: God did INDEED give us free will. But He has limited the parameters from within which we are freely allowed to make decisions and act as we so desire. He has also framed the parameters of the CONSEQUENCES of our ultimate decision concerning Him. Why? Because HE is the one who created all that is possible for us - He's given us our very breath. He is the only one that can rightfully demand ANYTHING of us. Thing is, most want the good things of this earth that God provides us, and whether we believe or don't (whether we believe they are from Him or not). But while they enjoy the things, awesomeness and beauty of the earth and universe, they still don't want the Creator behind it all. They cluelessly think that THEY can bring themselves the most ultimately possible happiness and satisfaction as opposed to what God offers them - both for now and for eternity.