Evidence for God from Science

What would YOU do if you were faced with a direct question as to what faith you follow, well knowing that your life hangs in the balance? This is the reality for many in certain parts of the world.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/201 ... faith.html

Remember Peter's initial responses before the rooster crowed!

Don't fear those who can kill only the body; instead fear He who can kill the soul.

Pain is only temporary.

Was only thinking of this the other day when reading about tribulation.

A direct question? Like to think I would be true. dont think I would say I wasnt a Christian, not sure I could but to die for my faith is a very scary thought. Havealways admired those that have, to have that conviction must be comforting.

I have mixed feelings on the subject.

It appears, that to deny Christ is to deny Christ, whether you deny by lips or by heart, you do end up denying him. The path to recovery is between God and man and the church. The apostles and the early church martyrs did not deny Christ temporarily to save their own skin.

Now after saying that, I do know Christians who are Muslims to the outside world but are secretly christians. Declaring their faith outloud is certain death. And I see that too.

Just in case anyone forgot, there was a guy in the New Testament who denied Christ 3 times (just before the rooster crowed twice).

"Immediately the rooster crowed the second time. Then Peter remembered the word Jesus had spoken to him: "Before the rooster crows twice you will deny me three times." And he broke down and wept." Mark 14:72

This seems relevant - and looks like a good topic to study

Martyrdom in today's world is considered a foolish act but then again the church history is filled with martyrs some of whom were given the choice to deny Christ and live which they refused. This is my general impression. I just think there is a fine-line somewhere which separates hypocrisy just to save your life no matter what the circumstance maybe or dying for your belief no matter what.

Q1. Is it ok to convert to Islam under a gun or get shot proclaiming your faith in Christ?
People say under a gun doesn't count since that doesn't make you a Muslim. And I agree but I also contest that the apostles and the church fathers and martyrs, specifically didn't do that. They could have worshiped Caesar thinking I am not really doing that, its forcibly been asked of me, but they didn't. Now to some extent I can understand that but the church history makes me wonder.

I think the real question is:
Q2.Is laying down your life for your belief in Christ worth it?
And that answer is not a painless ones. I can perhaps dodge the "convert under a gun" question with a philosophical take on what makes a Muslim, Muslim. But I can't in good conscience dodge the second question, which really is a fence-buster and the answer could only be either yes or no. And this doesn't necessarily mean that you go out there and put your life in danger but I think this is a question which really would evaluate our relationship with Christ, considering the fact that HE did die a horrible painful death for our sake and perhaps as the Elizabethan writer once said:
"...time to pay my maker in kind for all that he has done." (paraphrased)

Christ did say, he who loves me more than himself, family etc etc is not worthy to follow me. He also said, he who denied me infront of men, I will also deny him in front of the father. Fear ye not who kills the body but fear him who can kill the soul. Blessed are you for when you are persecuted in my name (and how can you be persecuted if you convert?) you won't be if you give in.

I mean the gospel has all these sayings and by Christ himself. This is also worth consideration.

I don't know.
I mean if it was only ME in danger I hope that I would have the strength BUT if my family was in danger, I don't know.
BUT I have faith in Our Lord and would ask Him to guide my words and actions.

LittleHamster wrote:Just in case anyone forgot, there was a guy in the New Testament who denied Christ 3 times (just before the rooster crowed twice).

"Immediately the rooster crowed the second time. Then Peter remembered the word Jesus had spoken to him: "Before the rooster crows twice you will deny me three times." And he broke down and wept." Mark 14:72

This seems relevant - and looks like a good topic to study

He was same same fellow who ''gave himself up' to be crucified upside down.

I personally believe the bible is quite clear.

Mark 8:38 Not as pertinent, but still holds some meaning in this situation.
Matthew 10:33
2 Timothy 2:11-12
Luke 12:9


I personally view a rejection of the Christian faith to save one's life as a rejection of Christ; this was why peter was so overcome with grief after the rooster crowed. I think he realized that.


I'm sure very few actually "know" what they would actually do in this situation; it's a very traumatic and hectic situation i'm sure. The bible, however, is very clear on what we should do.

It's tricky.
I agree with Paul if it was just my life then I think I know what I would do, but I could be wrong but if it was my family then I really don't know.
Perhaps there are situations where the preservation of our life is justifiable. I sure wouldn't judge a person who has been in this situation and chosen to stay alive because although I can speculate I really don't know how horrendous that decision would be. Trying to make life and death decisions under the most stressful of conditions, I don't know if there is a right or wrong decision just a very difficult one.
It could be questioned whether the examples given where a direct denial of Christ, I don't know.
If we are living in the days close to the second coming of Christ then all of us will have our faith tested. There may come a time when a direct denial of Christ is required to save our life, then I would pray and I do pray for strength and conviction if and when needed.
I think christians do need to have the strength to live for Christ and die for our faith and the wisdom to know when that's needed.

Perhaps a related important question, as we ponder whether we would have the courage to acknowledge Christ at the risk of death, is why are we sometimes timid when the everyday situation arises where standing up for Christ has nowhere near a fatal consequence. Is it fear? Pride? What?

What if you denied Christ to someone but acknowledged Christ to thousands of others ? Does Jesus keep a score card ?

I remember denying I was a Christian a long time ago and that was just out of embarrassment! Crikey...this thread is starting to make me a little paranoid.

But no need to answer, I'm just thinking out aloud.....

this isn't about acknowledging Christ to others, but realizing that do you value life over his name or not? I think the church martyrs throughout history have shown that.

Especially when Christ told that his followers will be persecuted.

That is hard to imagine in the west because that persecution is not being drawn in blood.

Philip wrote:Perhaps a related important question, as we ponder whether we would have the courage to acknowledge Christ at the risk of death, is why are we sometimes timid when the everyday situation arises where standing up for Christ has nowhere near a fatal consequence. Is it fear? Pride? What?

What's an example of "standing up for Christ" in an everyday situation?

I think standing up for Christ can be interpreted in different ways.
The two biggest commandments that everything falls under is loving God and loving others.
So our biggest testament to Christ is love.
We are faced with this situation everyday.
The way in which we treat others.
Every single time we reach out to the least of us, we are doing so in His name.
Every act of kindness, patience, compassion, empathy and understanding is standing for Christ.
It does not have to be with a combative sword against the world.
We are to live for the spirit and not for the world, but that spirit is in love and humility.
It is difficult to take a moral high ground when we are not moral agents ourselves. We don't specialise in morality, we specialise in understanding the grace so preciously offered to us.
I say that because often it can be seen as standing up for Christ is taking a moral stand against the world but maybe that is putting the cart before the horse.
Sanctification comes after knowing the love shown to us on the cross.
That first step comes through love.
Perhaps such love we show to others may be our biggest stand for Christ.

Jesus Christ was willing to die for us -- and He Also rose again. Maybe We need to realize that our physical dying For Christ / for our Faith / belief / means that we Also will be with Christ as a result. And others might just need to literally see us willing to take a stand For Christ so they can Also have the courage to take Their stand. And -- how many people / prison officials / have been 'won' through witnessing the death of a believer. A person who Can face certain death Calmly.