Evidence for God from Science

For one of my first posts i guess i'll start with a very simple question: Does God love the devil/Satan? It's not a question that i think about every day and night, but i dont think it's a question that is brought up very often (at least according to my experience). We all know God loves everyone, but does that include the being who released evil to begin with?

I also hope my english grammar is not flawed in this post. If it is, then it might be because i'm danish.

Hi JT

Your grammar is fine and welcome to the forum

Does God love Satan? Yes. As a being, as His creation BUT He hates the evil.
God is love, if He hates Satan, that wouldn't be true.

JT,

You may be interested in this.

JurassicTerrorist wrote:We all know God loves everyone,

Can you find anyplace in the Bible that actually says that God loves everyone? The Bible does have a lot to say about God's love and almost everyone knows John 3:16, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." But God is also described as being holy and his holiness makes it impossible for him to tolerate sin. Here is a verse that isn't nearly as well known as John 3:16 but is just as important in describing God's character.

You who are of purer eyes than to see evil
and cannot look at wrong,
why do you idly look at traitors
and remain silent when the wicked swallows up
the man more righteous than he?
(Habakkuk 1:13 ESV)

God is both holy and loving and if we focus on one of these attributes and neglect the other we will have a false view of what he is like.

The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
(1 John 3:8 ESV)

A comparison of this verse with John 3:16 makes it clear that God does not love the devil.

theophilus wrote:

JurassicTerrorist wrote:We all know God loves everyone,

Can you find anyplace in the Bible that actually says that God loves everyone? The Bible does have a lot to say about God's love and almost everyone knows John 3:16, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." But God is also described as being holy and his holiness makes it impossible for him to tolerate sin. Here is a verse that isn't nearly as well known as John 3:16 but is just as important in describing God's character.

You who are of purer eyes than to see evil
and cannot look at wrong,
why do you idly look at traitors
and remain silent when the wicked swallows up
the man more righteous than he?
(Habakkuk 1:13 ESV)

God is both holy and loving and if we focus on one of these attributes and neglect the other we will have a false view of what he is like.

The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
(1 John 3:8 ESV)

A comparison of this verse with John 3:16 makes it clear that God does not love the devil.

God loves all of His creation, did He not? He created Satan. Surely He can love Satan but hate the evil? Otherwise God isn't unchangeable, what Satan did changed Him.

The comparison doesnt make it clear to me, at all, sorry.

God is love, buts God's love is manifested in Christ. Did Christ die for satan? No, then for satan there is no love of God.

One similar question, does God love the anti-Christ? God doesn't have to necessarily "Hate" him you know. But did God manifest his love for him? I think not. Then we can say that God is love but there are a few exceptions.

Rom 9:13 Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

God can pretty much do that.

neo-x wrote:God is love, buts God's love is manifested in Christ. Did Christ die for satan? No, then for satan there is no love of God.

One similar question, does God love the anti-Christ? God doesn't have to necessarily "Hate" him you know. But did God manifest his love for him? I think not. Then we can say that God is love but there are a few exceptions.

Rom 9:13 Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

God can pretty much do that.

Makes sense, even though some theologians say it was the edomites who God hated, or God just liked him less than Jacob.

JurassicTerrorist wrote:

neo-x wrote:God is love, buts God's love is manifested in Christ. Did Christ die for satan? No, then for satan there is no love of God.

One similar question, does God love the anti-Christ? God doesn't have to necessarily "Hate" him you know. But did God manifest his love for him? I think not. Then we can say that God is love but there are a few exceptions.

Rom 9:13 Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

God can pretty much do that.

Makes sense, even though some theologians say it was the edomites who God hated, or God just liked him less than Jacob.

That is fine, it is a trivial point imo.

Interesting topic JurassicTerrorist.

And I'm not sure if I agree with Neo, about it being a trivial point.

I think the question gets into the nature and being of God. More specifically, His immutability.

And Storyteller raised a great point. If God is unchanging(immutable) then He does love Satan.

And that doesn't do anything to change God being just.

I can't see God loving all the angels He created, then not loving some of them, because they sinned. That would mean God's love is subject to His creation's actions. And we can see the problem with that.

RickD wrote:Interesting topic JurassicTerrorist.

And I'm not sure if I agree with Neo, about it being a trivial point.

I think the question gets into the nature and being of God. More specifically, His immutability.

And Storyteller raised a great point. If God is unchanging(immutable) then He does love Satan.

And that doesn't do anything to change God being just.

I can't see God loving all the angels He created, then not loving some of them, because they sinned. That would mean God's love is subject to His creation's actions. And we can see the problem with that.

The trivial point in that post by JT was:

even though some theologians say it was the edomites who God hated, or God just liked him less than Jacob.

And Storyteller raised a great point. If God is unchanging(immutable) then He does love Satan.

And that doesn't do anything to change God being just.

I can't see God loving all the angels He created, then not loving some of them, because they sinned. That would mean God's love is subject to His creation's actions. And we can see the problem with that.

And this isn't a really good point by ST, as it does not change God's immutability. The love that we talk about in Christian theology is indeed by Christ alone. And that love is afforded to, as we know it, human beings only. It is not afforded to angels for Christ didn't die for angels. It is not afforded to bacteria either or viruses. God is not bound by "I must love all" condition. Therefore to assume is to have a false notion of God and therefore the wrong idea that by doing the opposite God must stay immutable. That is not how it works.

So to say that God must love everything he created is a false premise to begin with.

Does God love the oyster in the sea so much that he gave his only begotten son, that whichever shall believe in him will have an everlasting pearl in it?
I guess we all know the answer to that one.

Storyteller wrote:God loves all of His creation, did He not? He created Satan. Surely He can love Satan but hate the evil? Otherwise God isn't unchangeable, what Satan did changed Him.

God is immutable and he always hates evil and loves good. Satan was certainly good when God created him because everything God creates is good. As a result he was the object of God's love. When he became evil he became the object of God's hatred because God always hates evil. Satan didn't change God; he was the one who changed.

God's love is like the light that the sun provides. The sun provides light all of the time but because of the earth's rotation we experience times of darkness. We experience day and night because of the changing position of the earth, not because of any change in the sun. In the same way God's love in constant and unchanging but sin removes us from his love.

If you think about it, Satan and those fellow angels that followed and rebelled with him, are unimaginably evil. These are beings that experienced being in the very abode of God, in His very presence, in the untold joy that would entail, and STILL, that was not enough for them. It's one thing to reject the Heaven of myth that so many men believe in ("boring place, no fun, endless harp music, and LONG dull sermons, etc."), but quite another to have experienced the real place and presence of the Lord, only to reject it. And there must be something about a level of narcissism that makes it possible for one to believe that they can actually get all they selfishly want - to think that they could actually overcome the Lord is unthinkable/illogical. But that's what they tried to do. Pre-fall of the demons and Satan, they weren't "merely" offered the joys of Heaven - they HAD them, and knew exactly what that was like. Which is precisely why they were not offered a chance to repent and be forgiven.

JurassicTerrorist wrote:For one of my first posts i guess i'll start with a very simple question: Does God love the devil/Satan? It's not a question that i think about every day and night, but i dont think it's a question that is brought up very often (at least according to my experience). We all know God loves everyone, but does that include the being who released evil to begin with?

I also hope my english grammar is not flawed in this post. If it is, then it might be because i'm danish.

Yes, God loves Satan.
God hates what he has done and continues to do but as part of His creation God loves him.
Much like a parent that loves their child regardless of what they do BUT can despise THAT they do it and despise WHAT they do.

Well, some Scriptures say God goes BEYOND His hatred for ONLY the sin: https://carm.org/does-god-hate-anyone



So, how can we harmonize these to still state God never hates the sinner?

Philip wrote:Well, some Scriptures say God goes BEYOND His hatred for ONLY the sin: https://carm.org/does-god-hate-anyone



So, how can we harmonize these to still state God never hates the sinner?

I guess if we take those literally, then we really SHOULD hate our parents, children, brothers and sisters.

I'm off to a commune in Africa! Hasta la vista!!! Get to da choppa!

***edit
I think if we take the scripture that carm lists, and take them literally, to mean that God actually hates the people, then we have a contradiction with John 3:16 and other verses. God so loved the world, right? And the "world" includes vile sinners, right? Can God hate someone, and love him at the same time?

I think a lot of the time when scripture says that God hates someone, it's a way of saying He hates the sin.

Otherwise, John 3:16 is meaningless, isn't it?