Evidence for God from Science

For me, this is agape love

- You can't earn it
- You cannot push it away or stop it
-.Its 100% unconditional
- It is sacrifical
- tough love
- can be one way
- can seem unfair
- doesn't give up
- its best revealed by the way Jesus loved us
- Its seeking the best for someone even at a personal cost to yourself
as we are to imitate Jesus who went to the cross for us even though it
cost him everything.

If you want to prove me wrong then you better be prepared to fight me to the death

Nessa wrote:For me, this is agape love

- You can't earn it
- You cannot push it away or stop it
-.Its 100% unconditional
- It is sacrifical
- tough love
- doesn't give up
- its best revealed by the way Jesus loved us
- Its seeking the best for someone even at a personal cost to yourself
as we are to imitate Jesus who went to the cross for us even though it
cost him everything.

If you want to prove me wrong then you better be prepared to fight me to the death

Umm...I don't think threatening to fight someone to the death, is how we show agape love.

RickD wrote:

Nessa wrote:For me, this is agape love

- You can't earn it
- You cannot push it away or stop it
-.Its 100% unconditional
- It is sacrifical
- tough love
- doesn't give up
- its best revealed by the way Jesus loved us
- Its seeking the best for someone even at a personal cost to yourself
as we are to imitate Jesus who went to the cross for us even though it
cost him everything.

If you want to prove me wrong then you better be prepared to fight me to the death

Umm...I don't think threatening to fight someone to the death, is how we show agape love.

Well, I guess we'll have to see about that now won't we

I have actually been doing some research on agape love and found that there is a major attack on unconditional love. Its now considered 'unhealthy' for all types of relationships and heck, even God doesn't have it.

I am reminded of what Paul said....is grace an excuse to sin? Shall we sin so that grace can abound even more? What he is saying is that shall we twist this thing grace and make it into something that it was never meant to be? A licence to sin?

See, God's unconditional love may get abused and it may even call for us, at times, to get abused...tell me that paul wasnt abused for the sake Of christ...Jeremiah, look at hebrews 11 the faith chapter about martyers... look at Jesus

Now, of course Im not pro abuse, but lets not be niave here guys....you may get abused for the sake of Christ.

And how are we suppose to respond?...'father forgive them for they know not what they do"....Jesus's words from the cross....stephen echoed those words at the stoning..'dont hold this sin against them!!'

Real unconditional love is suppose to transform others AND us. We can feel safe and secure, even when we fail..knowing there is still hope..still love...another chance....

Real Unconditional love - even when another pushes it away - gives us an opportunity to learn how be more like Jesus...to love like he did.

Take away unconditional love and you take away the heart of Jesus and the message of the gospel. You spit on the cross and everything it stands for.

Wow Nessa!

Your first thread was Whats the last thing you put in your mouth?

And now your talking about agape love?

I'm so proud of you! You have grown so much, in such a short time!

RickD wrote:Wow Nessa!

Your first thread was Whats the last thing you put in your mouth?

And now your talking about agape love?

I'm so proud of you! You have grown so much, in such a short time!

smarty

The thing is Nessa. The love of YHWH is not unconditional, and that won't be found in scripture. In fact, we are in His wrath until we meet the condition of believing in His Son. Grace does not = unconditional love. If you are outside of grace:

John 3:36 (NIV) "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
Luke 13:3 3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish
Rom 2:5,8 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed... For those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

Real unconditional love is suppose to transform others AND us.

Yes, and how are you loving someone who keeps burning their hand on a flame and not stopping them from doing so? If you don't attempt to stop someone from committing spiritual suicide around you, you are enabling it and becoming an accessory to their death.

What would you do if a crack addicted homeless person walked through your door into your house and refused to leave? Set up camp in your bedroom? Ate all your food and acted like filth towards you and your family? Would accept him as he is and 'just love him'?

Love is not this simple, it isn't universal. And remember, YHWH is love. He is conditional. If we don't choose Him He won't choose us. And here are some people He will never choose to be with: "cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars" Revelation 21:8

Take away unconditional love and you take away the heart of Jesus and the message of the gospel. You spit on the cross and everything it stands for.

Careful of your accusations...

Parental love is a pretty good example of what agape is (other-centered, YHWH motivated, holy[dedicated]). Unfortunately, not all parents know/express agape. Agape can only be revealed by/through Him. Jesus is and is a living expression of agape.

Mallz wrote:The thing is Nessa. The love of YHWH is not unconditional, and that won't be found in scripture. In fact, we are in His wrath until we meet the condition of believing in His Son. Grace does not = unconditional love. If you are outside of grace:

John 3:36 (NIV) "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
Luke 13:3 3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish
Rom 2:5,8 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed... For those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

Real unconditional love is suppose to transform others AND us.

Yes, and how are you loving someone who keeps burning their hand on a flame and not stopping them from doing so? If you don't attempt to stop someone from committing spiritual suicide around you, you are enabling it and becoming an accessory to their death.

What would you do if a crack addicted homeless person walked through your door into your house and refused to leave? Set up camp in your bedroom? Ate all your food and acted like filth towards you and your family? Would accept him as he is and 'just love him'?

Love is not this simple, it isn't universal. And remember, YHWH is love. He is conditional. If we don't choose Him He won't choose us. And here are some people He will never choose to be with: "cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars" Revelation 21:8

Take away unconditional love and you take away the heart of Jesus and the message of the gospel. You spit on the cross and everything it stands for.

Careful of your accusations...

Parental love is a pretty good example of what agape is (other-centered, YHWH motivated, holy[dedicated]). Unfortunately, not all parents know/express agape. Agape can only be revealed by/through Him. Jesus is and is a living expression of agape.

So how exactly do you interpret loving your enemies?
Jesus showed agape love by dying on the cross for everyone.

The bible says that it is God's desire for ALL men to repent and come to him but of course not all will. God's justice does not in any way affect the fact that he is love himself. He is agape love shown through Jesus. The cross is where justice and love met and a way was made for man to be reconciled with God. Its Gods justice that makes us the object of his wrath before we accept jesus but that does not mean he does not love unconditionally. It just means there needs to be a way for God's justice to be met. One characteristic of God does not diminish another. He is completely love and he is completely Justice etc

Now as for the crack addict walking in my home and eating all my food...well, on my bookshelf sits a story 'the tiger who came for tea' the tiger, who intruded, ate up all the food and drunk all of daddys beer. They went out shopping and got more food...so give me a better reason than someone eating up all my food to dispute unconditional love

Gods asks his people to suffer much worse than a empty pantry for another. Or sleeping on the couch etc

Of course I would protect my kids BUT there is nothing to say God wouldnt ask me to let him in my house. And even every reason to think he would...

So tell me who did jesus die for?
Everyone.

But that is not to say everyone will ACCEPT Gods unconditional love by trusting in Jesus as their true lord and saviour.

And careful of my accusations? That goes both ways...you are accusing God of having conditional love....

So how exactly do you interpret loving your enemies?

1 Corinthians 13:4-8 "4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 8 Love never fails.."

Proverbs 25
snippet: "If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; if he is thirsty, give him water to drink. 22 In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head, and the Lord will reward you."

He is completely love and he is completely Justice etc

Yes, there can't be love without justice, nor justice without love.

Matthew 18:21-22 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?” 22 Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times"

You would protect your kids. So you see there are boundaries to how much of yourself and your family you will give away to someone. Do you want that addict to thrive in Hai? Of course. But when that individual tramples on your love and your loved ones justice must protect love and its expressions. Does that mean you stop believing in them? No. That decision is for the Judge. I don't live in personal judgement against hearts. I can't read them. But I can read how a heart expresses itself showing its leaning allegiance and effects on its soul and existence. How can I? He shows us how but revealing Himself to us through What He Is (objective morality). And if you see a heart that needs healing/nudging towards the narrow path, they need Jesus, the healer. He works through us and with us as the Ruah-Ha Kodesh indwells and shows us His path. So to love as Jesus loves, you have to protect people from themselves. But that's not enough. They need to be set free to love. Until He judges and makes His decisions. Everyone is my brother and sister. You, everyone on this forum, everyone I meet and work with. Every stranger, every thing.

I do see your dedication to a wonderful aspect of agape, Nessa (and admire this motherly love I see in you). But it's not a complete picture of agape. Because If we don't build others up (by not passively letting them destroy themselves and others) we inadvertently tear them down and they walk further into the fog.

I am not saying that if you have an intruder that you are to necessarily forego justice and let them do whatever they want in the name of 'uncondtional love'. But God could very well ask you to do that. Stephen cried out, as I said, for God to not hold his killers to their sin of stoning him. That is the very heart of Jesus. Loving and forgiving. And to utimately be MORE concerned with your enemies eternal life rather than your temporal life. *cough* gun thread *cough*

I already said tough love is a part of agape. Discipline etc

Did the prodigal son's father stop loving him when he ran away? Surely not! And that is a picture of God's love for us. You can't measure his love. It has no bounds. It doesnt reach out from the cross and only goes so far. God's love is not found to be lacking.

Mallz, every one is your brother and sister? like non christians?

I am not saying that if you have an intruder that you are to necessarily forego justice and let them do whatever they want in the name of 'uncondtional love'. But God could very well ask you to do that. Stephen cried out, as I said, for God to not hold his killers to their sin of stoning him. That is the very heart of Jesus. Loving and forgiving. And to utimately be MORE concerned with your enemies eternal life rather than your temporal life. *cough* gun thread *cough*

Partially agreed. And I don't know the gun thread reference. Haven't been following it. Even those deserving separation, I don't hold anything against and don't want them to be separated. It depends on how you define 'unconditional love'. A quick google search comes up with: "Unconditional love is known as affection without any limitations, it can also be love without conditions". Which falls in line with what I asses from those around me. I can't agree with that. And I don't see that being unconditional of Him.

Did the prodigal son's father stop loving him when he ran away? Surely not! And that is a picture of God's love for us. You can't measure his love. It has no bounds. It doesnt reach out from the cross and only goes so far. God's love is not found to be lacking.

The prodigal son chooses Him and comes back.

Mallz, every one is your brother and sister? like non christians?

It isn't for me to decide. So until I know, everyone could be. So everyone is.

Mallz wrote: Partially agreed. And I don't know the gun thread reference. Haven't been following it. Even those deserving separation, I don't hold anything against and don't want them to be separated. It depends on how you define 'unconditional love'. A quick google search comes up with: "Unconditional love is known as affection without any limitations, it can also be love without conditions". Which falls in line with what I asses from...

.

my ultimate view of agape love is undeserved love.

The world says 'I will love you if....'
God says 'I will love you even if....'

That does not mean there isn't different outcomes. The prodigal son's father still loved his son even though he walked away. He didnt say 'I will love you if you stay'. His unconditional love was not dependant on the sons actions.