Evidence for God from Science

I've been wrestling (or wrasslin' as some would say ) with the assurance of my salvation. I am pretty hard on myself and it usually causes me a lot of unnecessary agony. I came across Romans 8:29-30 and as I read those verses, I started to question whether I was one of the predestined. I know that I am saved by grace alone through faith in Jesus Christ and not through works. I have confessed Christ and I believe in his life, death, burial, and resurrection. I have acted upon his word in faith and I try to actively live out his commands and love Him the best I can...but I fail miserably. I pray every day and I am part of a special needs ministry. I also co-lead a middle school ministry where I work. Christ is always on my mind and I hunger & thirst for a deeper more intimate relationship. Romans 3:11 tells us that no one seeks God. Ephesians 2:1-3 speaks of this as well. But, according to John 6:44, the only way a person is able to come to Christ is through the power of the Father. Ephesians 2:4 speaks of His great love for us as well. So, I know my belief in God is not my own doing. In fact, Jesus says in John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out."

So If I believe in Jesus Christ (as I believe I do) and I come to Him (as I believe I've had) He won't turn me away. The is only possible because of His great love for me. So if He is in me and I in Him, does that make me one of the predestined and chosen ones talked about in Romans 8:29-30? I guess what I am asking is how do I know If I am predestined and chosen? I like to think I am, but I am so hard on myself at times. Maybe someone could help shed some light on this.

Thanks

Ottoman wrote:I've been wrestling (or wrasslin' as some would say ) with the assurance of my salvation. I am pretty hard on myself and it usually causes me a lot of unnecessary agony. I came across Romans 8:29-30 and as I read those verses, I started to question whether I was one of the predestined. I know that I am saved by grace alone through faith in Jesus Christ and not through works. I have confessed Christ and I believe in his life, death, burial, and resurrection. I have acted upon his word in faith and I try to actively live out his commands and love Him the best I can...but I fail miserably. I pray every day and I am part of a special needs ministry. I also co-lead a middle school ministry where I work. Christ is always on my mind and I hunger & thirst for a deeper more intimate relationship. Romans 3:11 tells us that no one seeks God. Ephesians 2:1-3 speaks of this as well. But, according to John 6:44, the only way a person is able to come to Christ is through the power of the Father. Ephesians 2:4 speaks of His great love for us as well. So, I know my belief in God is not my own doing. In fact, Jesus says in John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out."

So If I believe in Jesus Christ (as I believe I do) and I come to Him (as I believe I've had) He won't turn me away. The is only possible because of His great love for me. So if He is in me and I in Him, does that make me one of the predestined and chosen ones talked about in Romans 8:29-30? I guess what I am asking is how do I know If I am predestined and chosen? I like to think I am, but I am so hard on myself at times. Maybe someone could help shed some light on this.

Thanks

Question: If one was not even concerned in the least about being predestined in the Rom 8:29-30 sense why would they even bother ponder this as you are?

Unsaved folks don't even think about being predestined in the Rom 8:29-30 sense and have no knowledge of this, nor do they really care, however, you do.

Answer: You are worried about it, so you are one of the Rom 8:29-30 predestined.

Welcome!
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Sometimes ... the easiest answer is also the simplest ...

B. W. wrote:

Ottoman wrote:I've been wrestling (or wrasslin' as some would say ) with the assurance of my salvation. I am pretty hard on myself and it usually causes me a lot of unnecessary agony. I came across Romans 8:29-30 and as I read those verses, I started to question whether I was one of the predestined. I know that I am saved by grace alone through faith in Jesus Christ and not through works. I have confessed Christ and I believe in his life, death, burial, and resurrection. I have acted upon his word in faith and I try to actively live out his commands and love Him the best I can...but I fail miserably. I pray every day and I am part of a special needs ministry. I also co-lead a middle school ministry where I work. Christ is always on my mind and I hunger & thirst for a deeper more intimate relationship. Romans 3:11 tells us that no one seeks God. Ephesians 2:1-3 speaks of this as well. But, according to John 6:44, the only way a person is able to come to Christ is through the power of the Father. Ephesians 2:4 speaks of His great love for us as well. So, I know my belief in God is not my own doing. In fact, Jesus says in John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out."

So If I believe in Jesus Christ (as I believe I do) and I come to Him (as I believe I've had) He won't turn me away. The is only possible because of His great love for me. So if He is in me and I in Him, does that make me one of the predestined and chosen ones talked about in Romans 8:29-30? I guess what I am asking is how do I know If I am predestined and chosen? I like to think I am, but I am so hard on myself at times. Maybe someone could help shed some light on this.

Thanks

Question: If one was not even concerned in the least about being predestined in the Rom 8:29-30 sense why would they even bother ponder this as you are?

Unsaved folks don't even think about being predestined in the Rom 8:29-30 sense and have no knowledge of this, nor do they really care, however, you do.

Answer: You are worried about it, so you are one of the Rom 8:29-30 predestined.

Welcome!
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Thanks BW. I am having difficulty in understanding what true repentance looks like. Is it to turn away from unbelief as I've done? Or does it mean to turn away from sin? Maybe both? I have experienced victory over certain sins in my life although once in a while I will slip up. But there are other desires of the flesh that I struggle with....things I am attracted to. It is these things that caused me to question whether I was predestined/saved. I always wondered how and why God could love a sinner like me knowing full well the sins I will commit down the road.And if he did why do I desire these things of the flesh/world?

Ottoman, this issue of predestination - an unScriptural understanding of it abounds in certain circles and can put one who does not understand it in great bondage of fear. Let me HIGHLY recommend Norman Geisler's book on this - it greatly helped me to have confidence that God truly does want "ALL men everywhere" to come to salvation and that He "takes no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked": http://www.amazon.com/Chosen-But-Free-B ... G8826BCKR4 Also, read a bit what I wrote on this page (my third post down from the top): http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... us#p178985

As for your salvation, IF in your heart and mind you have truly believed and invited Jesus in to your life/committed yourself to following Him, have acknowledged your sin/asked for forgiveness and need for Him and believed He is God, came to earth and died on a Roman cross for your (and everyone's) sins, was resurrected back to life (per the Gospels), then you ARE saved. As long as your belief is truly one of your will/mind/heart and not mere intellectual (as is true of the devil and his minions) - as certainly, intellectually, THEY also "believe," and well know that Jesus is God. But they are in rebellion and have refused to FOLLOW and OBEY Him. Faith in Christ/The ONLY pathway to salvation is NOT something you DO, but is something you HAVE, in your heart, mind and will towards God. It's also NOT a matter of how saved you FEEL. Once a man is saved, he is STILL alive in a fleshly and sinful shell that Scripture confirms will continue to (but struggle against) sin.

There are days ALL Christians doubt, realize how much we've let God down, and so we FEEL like spiritual dirtbags. And yet, God does not view His saved children as such. God views Christians AS WE WILL ONE DAY BE: Sinless! And clothed in righteousness. Sometimes, when I'm FEELING really good about where I am spiritually, I can screw up or something will happen and I'll not feel exactly much like a saint but as being really no different than the unbelievers around me. But it is that sensitivity to our sins that actually reveals "the Hope that is within us"/God's Spirit, which is why our sense of sin can bring us so low. But once a person is saved, positionally, God sees us as sinless. Nothing spiritually (our position in Christ) has changed between the day I had felt on a spiritual high and the next day that something brought me low. What does change, often, from time to time is how we spiritually FEEL. But Scripture constantly tells us to not gauge the truth of things by how we FEEL. Satan well knows our consciences accuse us, and he is constantly trying to pile on top of our consciences to cause doubt, confusion, and kill our confidence. Conversely, GOD wants to use our sensitivity to sin to cause us to pay attention and to FLEE it - to run to Him!

Another thing about FEELINGS is that there are times when a Christian so strongly senses/feels God's presence and love. There are other times when we wonder whether our prayers are making it past the ceiling. What has changed? God hasn't gone ANYWHERE. And we know that our salvation is ALL God's work, from His initial wooing, convincing/convicting one's heart and mind - all the way to Salvation. All we can do is be willing to ACCEPT that which we in NO way can earn (that is open to ALL who so desire it) what He opens our eyes to - that the resurrected Jesus is God and we need to commit to Him.

Point of all of this is that our day-to-day feelings are both fickle AND they are a terrible barometer as an accurate assessment our true spiritual condition. Our feelings are like the weather - they're constantly changing.

BTW, Ottoman, welcome to the forum!