"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." (Psalm 19:1)
https://discussions.godandscience.org/
Ok. But personal feelings aside, how is this not religious discrimination.neo-x wrote:I am not sure but would you mind, generally, if the coach had been Muslim and doing Numaaz on the field?
Personally, I detest this kind of praying behaviour and find it obnoxious at best. And that's because I see people in my country doing it everywhere.
To me that passage speaks more about intent than where your feet are actually planted.RickD wrote:Ok. But personal feelings aside, how is this not religious discrimination.neo-x wrote:I am not sure but would you mind, generally, if the coach had been Muslim and doing Numaaz on the field?
Personally, I detest this kind of praying behaviour and find it obnoxious at best. And that's because I see people in my country doing it everywhere.
And FYI, when I read the story, the first thing that came to my mind was the bible verse about not praying in front of people, do it in private.
Matthew 6:5
When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
So, personally, I don't like that kind of prayer. Nevertheless, I still believe it's religious discrimination.
Sure. But what would the intent be, of someone who insists he must pray openly in the middle of the football field?Nessa wrote:To me that passage speaks more about intent than where your feet are actually planted.RickD wrote:Ok. But personal feelings aside, how is this not religious discrimination.neo-x wrote:I am not sure but would you mind, generally, if the coach had been Muslim and doing Numaaz on the field?
Personally, I detest this kind of praying behaviour and find it obnoxious at best. And that's because I see people in my country doing it everywhere.
And FYI, when I read the story, the first thing that came to my mind was the bible verse about not praying in front of people, do it in private.
Matthew 6:5
When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
So, personally, I don't like that kind of prayer. Nevertheless, I still believe it's religious discrimination.
Here's the Bremerton School District's public statement and Q&A outlining why this isn't religious discrimination.RickD wrote:I'd love to hear how this isn't religious discrimination.
Freedom of speech is limited when working. You can't just say and do whatever you want. Whether it's religion or porn. You know what is expected when you begin a job. If you want to change it then go for it but Im not sure this is the right way.Philip wrote: Last bit of my rant: Spiritual expression is a form of speech, is it not? So, whatever happened to freedom of speech and the right to express oneself? All manner of porn passes that test, but just say "Jesus" and BAM! They're ready to shut you down.
Here you go.RickD wrote:Edward,
I can't read the entire link without downloading an app. I got the first 3 pages, but not the last.
October 28, 2015 Page 4 of 4 wrote: ...District administrator. That administrator recognized the clear legal issues presented by these
activities, and this prompted the District’s inquiry and subsequent directives.
If nobody complained, why not leave Kennedy alone?
This was not an option. The prayer sessions with students clearly violated the Establishment Clause. The District cannot allow students’ rights to be violated simply because none of them complain. Embedded in the federal court precedent discussed above is the reasonable expectation that students will feel coerced to go along with religious activity that is led or endorsed by their teachers and coaches. It is very likely that over the years, players have joined in these activities because to do otherwise would mean potentially alienating themselves from their team, and possibly their coaches. The District has a fundamental obligation to protect the rights of all of its students.
Is the District allowing other groups to use the football field for religious activities?
No. While District facilities can be used by private groups for religious activities, the District cannot allow this to occur while those same facilities are being used for District functions. During and after football games and until the attendees leave these events the field and stadium are exclusively in use by the District, for the District-sponsored events. The football field is not a public forum when it is in use for a District-sponsored athletic event. Thus, no group will be approved to use it for their own purposes while these events are occurring, and the District will take steps to enforce the closure of the field to non-participants while it is still in use for the District event.
After the game is over a high school coach still has supervisory responsibilities. He's on the clock until the last kid is released to his parents.Philip wrote:After the game is OVER, and AS LONG AS the prayer audience is only those invited to and thus join in VOLUNTARILY, I truly do not see the problem.
Nobody has the right not to be offended. That's not what this is about. The law says that the government can't give the appearance of favoring one religion over another. When a coach publicly prays on the field while he's on the clock he's violating the law and opening the district up to legal action.Philip wrote:And what about those who might be immensely offended that the coach can't say a voluntary prayer that is in no way compulsory to attend? What about THEIR sensibilities and right not to be offended???!!!
That kid can request an alternative assignment, or enroll in a Christian school, or be home schooled. If he's bound and determined to be offended then he will be, but people are generally more reasonable than you're giving them credit for.Philip wrote:What about a Christian kid who is made to read books that he finds offensive because it's a part of the course? Ban the book? Threaten the teacher who introduced the book? Of COURSE not! Offending the sensibilities of those of faith is routine and almost never even a consideration.
I have no issue with the words "God, Our Father, or Jesus," but the endless insistence that enforcing the separation of Church and State is anti-Christian persecution gets pretty irritating. It's not a question of why whoever is so easily offended by whatever, it's a question of Constitutional law.Philip wrote:But there's just nothing more offensive than hearing the words God, Our Father, or Jesus, is there???!!!
As Nessa pointed out, there are restrictions on speech at work. The coach knew that, and he initially agreed to stop praying on the field. He started up again after talking to some folks from the Liberty Institute. Add it all up and it looks a lot like conservative Christian activists attempting to manufacture a controversy.*Philip wrote:Last bit of my rant: Spiritual expression is a form of speech, is it not? So, whatever happened to freedom of speech and the right to express oneself? All manner of porn passes that test, but just say "Jesus" and BAM! They're ready to shut you down.
Did someone say, "circus"?melanie wrote:Only in America......
What a circus
