Evidence for God from Science

A Christians political persuasion is an opinion.
I think that is often forgotten.
It's not a mouthpiece for God. It's not God's party. It's not 'christian' collaborative values packaged within a political party.
It's politics.
It's a dirty game, where ambition is the driving force. Honesty is ambiguous, slander is rife and money drives a campaign right into office.
It's about as worldly as the world gets.

I'm not saying Christians shouldn't vote, they should.
Or that they shouldn't have strong opinions in relation to politics, I do.

What I am saying is this....
Do not think your party represents God because they don't.
They represent the world.
No side of politics is Godly.
They may use clever campaigning and media manipulation to attract a large percentage of votes from particular demographics but it's a game.
There is no win for God in the end, which ever party is elected.

Christianity is dragged into the political arena as a tool for winning votes.
It is in my opinion a disgrace to Christ.
There are Christians and non Christian in every party. The Bible has verses that backs up ideas like marriage sanctity and also the treatment of the poor and outsiders/refugees.
This idea that Christians have that those on the other side of the political spectrum are spiritually blinded is quite frankly a joke.
I don't care who's saying it. Be it a liberal Christian calling a conservative ungodly for particular political views or a conservative calling a liberal voting Christian, a lefty, Marxist so and so.
It's ridiculous.
There is NOTHING godly or Christian about any such nonsense. It is buying into worldly, political game playing, using slander and media to maniuplate public opinion and get votes.
It is a GAME.
That as Christians we have no part to play.

I am outspoken, I have strong views. I have a keen interest in politics.
My ideals are rooted in my spirituality but I do not think for one second that any party I may vote for has any kind of monopoly on Christianity or God.
If your church is a mouth piece for a party, the question is "who are they exalting"?
If you equate your political opinion for the opinion of God in such political matters perhaps you are exalting your own opinion a little too highly.
Just remember the policies of your party were constructed by imperfect politicians fuelled by ambition.
The media sources you watch program for ratings and there is no integrity.
Your vote for political leader, for vote for the news channel you watch is a game for ratings, where to win any notion of fair play has long gone out the window.
Each side politically use the media to instil fear and paranoia. Use dubious facts and paint such biased views that there remains nothing useful.
All sides of politics do it, and majority of 'news' providers.
There are unbiased, logical and accurate news sources out there but it's up to you to be a good steward of information and check facts.

More importantly do NOT think God is on your side of politics because He isn't.

Mel,

You must have some pretty terrible political parties in Aussieland.
Maybe your parties are run by the same criminals that started your country.

God is definitely on our side, here in America!

Signed,

Hillary "The Immaculate" Clinton.

I'm fed up with politics and this is one reason you are right,however in America Christians can effect politics but have failed to do so.There are and have been many political issues that no Christian can or should support and the party pushing for these things should be rejected by Christians and yet Christians have supported the party that has pushed for anti-Christian issues or have not voted against them and it is wrong,for example no Christian can support a party that is for allowing same-sex marriages and yet they do and have,however when both parties allow these corrupt laws to become law it really does not matter which party is in power so in this sense you are right.

All kidding aside Mel,

I agree with what you're saying.

I've always considered myself an Independent.

I want to be able to vote for whoever I want. Whatever party that person is in.

But when I moved to Florida, and needed to register to vote in the primaries, I wanted to vote for a specific candidate, who was running as a republican. So I had to register as a republican.

I can still vote for anyone I choose to, just not in the primaries.

In fact, last election in 2012, I didn't vote for either the dem or the rep candidate.

I just vote my conscience.

But this election I'm voting for Carson...because he's black.

I agree, Mel. Politics makes religion dirty and religion makes politicians inflexible. It's a poor mix for everyone involved.

abelcainsbrother wrote:I'm fed up with politics and this is one reason you are right,however in America Christians can effect politics but have failed to do so.

That's not true. The truth is that conservative Christians have an agenda that progressive and moderate Christians increasingly reject.

For example, check out this poll on gay marriage. Look at the section on Attitudes by Religious Affiliation. Since 2001 support for marriage equality is up by 20%+ among Catholics and moderate, white Protestants, up 4% among black Protestants, and up by 11% among white evangelical Protestants.

It's not that Christians aren't interested, or informed, or participating, it's that a growing majority think that you're wrong about a lot of social issues.

RickD wrote:All kidding aside Mel,

I agree with what you're saying.

I've always considered myself an Independent.

I want to be able to vote for whoever I want. Whatever party that person is in.

But when I moved to Florida, and needed to register to vote in the primaries, I wanted to vote for a specific candidate, who was running as a republican. So I had to register as a republican.

I can still vote for anyone I choose to, just not in the primaries.

In fact, last election in 2012, I didn't vote for either the dem or the rep candidate.

I just vote my conscience.

But this election I'm voting for Carson...because he's black.

I vote with my conscience also. I affiliate with no particular party.
I look at the candidate and the policies.
Sometimes it's easy often it is the lesser of two twats . I have also voted for minority parties because even though I know they won't win any seats secured will hopefully make a difference in what gets passed through parliament.

In saying that there is a party I lean towards but not dogmatically and it always depends on the policies and who is the candidate.
But no party represents wholly or even partly what I would like to see implemented in Australia politically.
Should I run for Prime Minister?? lol

abelcainsbrother wrote:I'm fed up with politics and this is one reason you are right,however in America Christians can effect politics but have failed to do so.There are and have been many political issues that no Christian can or should support and the party pushing for these things should be rejected by Christians and yet Christians have supported the party that has pushed for anti-Christian issues or have not voted against them and it is wrong,for example no Christian can support a party that is for allowing same-sex marriages and yet they do and have,however when both parties allow these corrupt laws to become law it really does not matter which party is in power so in this sense you are right.

Abel, America is just another country.
A really great country, so is Australia. We really are blessed to live where we do, but it is a country like every other. Christians make up a large demographic of many western nations. America is not alone in having a democracy that presents its people. They are no more Christian or influential within their government than any other. We all get a vote and we all do so according to our conscience.
I don't know quite how to say this non offensively but here goes.....
There seems to me be a wide spread delusion of grandeur within America Christian circles that your nation has been the backbone of Christian political influence and prosperity.
I'm not talking about democracy in of itself because the U.S. has been extremely infleuncial historically in demonstrating and somewhat successfully implementing a working democratic government. I am a huge believer in democracy and you guys have set previously the world stage for its benefits and workability.
But somewhere along the way those lines were crossed a long time ago and greed set in. It is a historical platform that is rife with influence, political campaigns that are backed by oil moguls, weapons dealers and those that benefit significantly economically from who ever is in power.
Money is the name of the game.
Christian values have never been. Or have not been for a very long time.

Deals are made, countries are invaded. Money is secured. Trade is maximised for benefit.
And in the background Christians think they have an influence in politics within their country and within worldwide dealings.
They don't.
It's a poltical game to keep you voting.
You mentioned that somehow across all poltical spectrums gay marriage gets approval despite Christian influence.
This happens because first and foremost approval within public opinion is paramount.
Policy doesn't predict social tends, they happen regardless. Policy catches up and reflects what is being sung in the public arena and then presents poltical agendas to match.
That is democracy.
It is it's beauty and downfall.
The people speak.
The collective voice influences policies.
Sometimes that collective voice does not represent Christian values, but we can't chose when democracy works.
It is not a news flash the world does not reflect Christ.
I'm not sure why that news flash is catching Christians off guard now??
This is not a world built on Christian values and neither is America.
Any card played to display such is just playing the game. It's done so to get your vote.

We present a kingdom that is in stark contrast to the world.
Jesus came here in a time that had major political shenanigans occurring.
And he had no part in it.
The Sadducees; the lefty feel good platform
The Pharisees; the right religious dogmatics
Our Saviour preached and teached a different Kingdom. Outside of worldly politics.
Where love and righteousness ruled.
When spirituality was truely taught and preached.
Brotherly love was practiced.
When our greatest teacher showed us how to balance worldly rule and Godly values.

Question: "What is the purpose of the thousand-year reign of Christ?"

Answer: The Millennium (also known as the Millennial Kingdom) is the 1,000-year reign of Jesus after the Tribulation and before all the people of the world are sent to either heaven or hell. Jesus will reign as king over Israel as well as all the nations of the world (Isaiah 2:4; 42:1). The world will live in peace (Isaiah 11:6–9; 32:18), Satan will be bound (Revelation 20:1–3), and, at the beginning, everyone will worship God (Isaiah 2:2–3). The purpose of the 1,000-year reign is to fulfill promises God made to the world that cannot be fulfilled while Satan is free and humans have political authority. Some of these promises, called covenants, were given specifically to Israel. Others were given to Jesus, the nations of the world, and creation. All of these will be fulfilled during Jesus’ 1,000-year reign. http://www.gotquestions.org/thousand-ye ... hrist.html

When this first happens it will be the first time political authority will be wrestled from human hands, and, albeit for only a short while, the first time man will know freedom through policy. God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Deleted because well I'm an idiot!

I should elborate....
The beast system is not Catholicism
Nor Islam.
Which seems to have brought such opposing views into a generalised area.
But rather the entirety of apparent 'Christian' end times views.
We are being played for fools.
Anti Christ is not opposed to Christ but a replicate of Christ.
He is not coming as the anti but the substitute.
Islam is not the greater enemy. He will emerge from within our midst.
We will get what is perceived as the anti Christ.
Riding on Islsam but then a great redeemer will come about and be hailed as the defeator and uniforming king, this will be the counterfeit. The person that defeated Islam and brought uniformity within.
He will decieve the masses and will be a so called Christian.
He will rise within our camp
His greatest aim is to decieve those within Christianity.

This idea that Christians have that those on the other side of the political spectrum are spiritually blinded is quite frankly a joke.

Well, I quite agree that NO political PARTY is on God's side - not as unshakably so/ALWAYS on God's side. HOWEVER, as one's politics are merely and extension as to how people would like to see how their beliefs of their minds and hearts are actually enacted/carried out, then certain, yes, POLITICAL views can well be contrary to God's desires for rightful behavior and governing of human affairs. How many people in WWII-era Germany, in the Nazi Party, whom agreed with the extermination of Jews, of "purifying" Germany of Zionist elements, had such a political view that opposed God's sensibilities of right and wrong? Now, wouldn't you say that such people, of a certain political party's dominant viewpoint, held their political view BECAUSE OF their terrible SPIRITUAL beliefs. What about today, where abortion upon demand is a popular political stance? Do not people holding such a POLITICAL view of abortion rights not also have an immoral SPIRITUAL view that drives the desired political reality they would like to see enacted/remain in place?

So, of COURSE, people with an opposite political view on a SPECIFIC issue can indeed hold a view or stance that is in opposition to God's wishes - BECAUSE that stance springs from their spiritual viewpoint. The problem is, however, as political parties are made up of people, and as we know that ALL people are sinners, then it is a no-brainer to realize that NO political party is "God's party." NO party will not have problematic view or always God-honoring behavior. And how many people in a given political party are not even Christians? PLENTY! HOWEVER, one party most certainly CAN, over a period of time, have it's majority opinions in which it is far more consistent on MOST issues, with policies that God would favor over the opposing party's policies. But, again, NO party will ever remain consistent in every way. And political parties often slowly change their core values over time. EVERY party can and does hold some dominant views that are in opposition to God's sensibilities.

But let's get to another uncomfortable reality: God sometimes prefers TYRANTS - yes, those bent upon evil - to be elected to office. Scripture tells us that NO leader gets into office without God ordaining it. And this is not just concerning political offices. God wanted Hitler in office just like he wanted Abraham Lincoln, and just like he wanted Billy Graham to preach. He had specific uses for both. Of course, He often gives us the leader our majorities desire - sometimes, as punishment and corrections. But God, as He chooses and installs leaders, knows ALL future things, events, and He has ETERNAL purposes behind his choices - all tied to His plan to optimally save ALL so willing to not eternally resist Him.

melanie wrote:

RickD wrote:All kidding aside Mel,

I agree with what you're saying.

I've always considered myself an Independent.

I want to be able to vote for whoever I want. Whatever party that person is in.

But when I moved to Florida, and needed to register to vote in the primaries, I wanted to vote for a specific candidate, who was running as a republican. So I had to register as a republican.

I can still vote for anyone I choose to, just not in the primaries.

In fact, last election in 2012, I didn't vote for either the dem or the rep candidate.

I just vote my conscience.

But this election I'm voting for Carson...because he's black.

I vote with my conscience also. I affiliate with no particular party.
I look at the candidate and the policies.
Sometimes it's easy often it is the lesser of two twats . I have also voted for minority parties because even though I know they won't win any seats secured will hopefully make a difference in what gets passed through parliament.

In saying that there is a party I lean towards but not dogmatically and it always depends on the policies and who is the candidate.
But no party represents wholly or even partly what I would like to see implemented in Australia politically.
Should I run for Prime Minister?? lol

You ain't no Julia Gillard*. That's for sure!

Besides Mel, you're probably too pretty to be the leader of any country. Look at all the female leaders, past or present. Aren't they all kinda homely?




*I know nothing about Ms. Gillard, other than she was the first female PM of Australia.

Es I am not blinded to biblical prophecy

... I'm sure you aren't Mel, but that was never my point...

Actually Mel, all I was saying in this verse, was only used to bolster your "politics" diatribe which i agree with,

Mel wrote:
Christians think they have an influence in politics within their country and within worldwide dealings. They don't.

It is a historical platform that is rife with influence, political campaigns that are backed by oil moguls, weapons dealers and those that benefit significantly economically from who ever is in power.

It's a poltical game to keep you voting.

and, as i said,

When this first happens, the Millennial Kingdom, it will be the first time political authority will be wrestled from human hands, and, albeit for only a short while, the first time man will know freedom through policy.

No human political regime can ever meet the perfection that will be ours in the 1000 year reign of Christ . Except for the fact that the reign of His Millenial Kingdom happens post tribulation, (because that's where you find the reference to human politics), there was nothing prophetic about the statement. Simply biblical support for your thoughts on politics

edwardmurphy wrote:I agree, Mel. Politics makes religion dirty and religion makes politicians inflexible. It's a poor mix for everyone involved.

abelcainsbrother wrote:I'm fed up with politics and this is one reason you are right,however in America Christians can effect politics but have failed to do so.

That's not true. The truth is that conservative Christians have an agenda that progressive and moderate Christians increasingly reject.

For example, check out this poll on gay marriage. Look at the section on Attitudes by Religious Affiliation. Since 2001 support for marriage equality is up by 20%+ among Catholics and moderate, white Protestants, up 4% among black Protestants, and up by 11% among white evangelical Protestants.

It's not that Christians aren't interested, or informed, or participating, it's that a growing majority think that you're wrong about a lot of social issues.

You just proved my point. Christians are voting for and tolerating anti-God policies.I don't care what man thinks or if you think I'm wrong,what God's word says should matter to anyone claiming to be a Christian and it does'nt for far too many and this is a big part of the problem with politics.

In America more than Australia, it seems to be a battle of ideologies than political parties. And I personally think one is just burying their head in the sand if they just think it's politics as usual. In Ausland, it's to much lesser degree but still here too.

Sadly, I don't feel like I live in a democracy. Rather, I feel like I live under a 2-part dictatorship of this party or the other. I'd much rather a revolution of some sort, only I don't know what. It'd be great if Christ just came and rolled the whole world up like a scroll already. That's really the only kingdom I can think of I really want to be part of -- Christ's.

Christians, even in Australia, just identify more with one side than the other -- because they see certain beliefs more supported, or perhaps more of a case that one party is just so much more Humanist and anti-God. AND, Atheists, gay people, pro-abortion and the like also often choose one party over the other for similar reasons.

I'm certain 95% of secular people in America, for example, would vote Democrats. I've seen enough YouTube to know. Enough Bill Meyer and the like.... so please, pleease, don't make this a religion thing Mel. I don't think you intended to, but it could be taken that way. Ed went with it that way. So even if some Christians shun your (Mel) own preference because the party you'd vote for appears more out of touch with Christian values (while perhaps not in your own opinion), I guess that's everyone's own freedom to make up their mind and call it how they see it.

You know, I voted Labor for a while over here, against Christian sentiments when they seems to what I saw actually care... now I normally end up voting for some small I feel is more inline with my own beliefs. It really doesn't matter I feel at the end of the day, because it normally always falls to one of the two dictatorships we have here in Oz. It's like my voting preference isn't really based upon who I want in, but who I least want in.

Democracy, I feel, is more a mirage to let the people feel like they have a choice. I do quite like in the US though, how the leaders are chosen in each new round -- which means perhaps a real shake-up and change can happen through someone noone has previously heard of. I mean, that means even the likes of Trump can run... and Ben Carson.... and if either one got in, well, that's nearly like a revolution since none have a political background. That I think is something really good about the US election process. Puts more power in the people of who they really want to run the country.

In Australia, we really just bicker amongst each other, and when one party gets sick of running the country, they do something really stupid (purposefully? ) and in essence look to the other party saying, "ok, we stuffed up, now it's your turn."