Evidence for God from Science

I have always been more drawn to the OT.

Partly cos I struggle with the NT. Ironic since it seems its usually the other way round for alot of Christians.

One main reason is cos of Jesus.

Although Im a Christian, I find it hard to know who he is. Not as God but as a man.

I read about him in the bible and see him almost as robotic or indifferent though I know he showed at least some emotion. I guess I would have liked to see more personality...long indepth conversations he had with others to really get to understand him more. All the conversations he had in the bible were short and he talked monotone or without much, or any, emotion - at least in my head. I just feel like I cant relate to him and it saddens me alot

I mean not just indepth stuff but does he have humour? I would like to have read of him telling a joke.

He always sounds just so proper like. I want to see him smiling, laughing. Having fun too.
I want him to be relatable to me...yes, I know the scriptures that describe him. That tell me he understands completely.....

Im not really after pat answers like go pray or read the bible. I can tell myself that
Im after your personal insight, how you have learnt to see Jesus - the man.

I know we are suppose to be Jesus hands and feet but I still don't see it. Maybe a glimpse here or there, a fleeting shadow.

I want to know Jesus, all of him but I don't.

And Im also just as interested to hear how atheists see jesus too.

So, shoot from the hip

Nessa,

Go pray and read the bible.

I'm kidding, but I'm really not. How I got to know who Jesus is, was primarily through scripture. Scripture is the main way God speaks to us. The more times you read it, the better you'll understand. And of course ask specific questions here.

Nessa wrote:So, shoot from the hip

Haven't you seen Jesus in the OT?

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

Nessa wrote:So, shoot from the hip

Haven't you seen Jesus in the OT?

Yes, and that did cross my mind while starting this thread.

RickD wrote:Nessa,

Go pray and read the bible.

I'm kidding, but I'm really not. How I got to know who Jesus is, was primarily through scripture. Scripture is the main way God speaks to us. The more times you read it, the better you'll understand. And of course ask specific questions here.

Maybe its hard to explain but it's like I want to know him, just dont want to know about him.

Like if I care about someone I can store up facts and knowledge about them but it's not the same as knowing them on a heart level, where what they say no longer becomes just facts about themselves but you start to experience the person themselves.

I would love to travel back in time, and sit with him alone and talk and listen. Maybe I would never leave. But he said himself that it was better that he leaves. Go back to the father.

Is it wrong to want the human form of jesus him next to you. To experience him that way? Not just praying and trying to make yourself believe he's there.

I dont know, I feel rippped off. Maybe it's my personality tho, and how I get to really know and experience people.

In my heart what I want the most is to hear him. I want to hear God's voice. I want personal revelation. That is the thing that gets me the most. I want God's audible voice. I want tone. Angry, happy, sad, funny. Its natural for humans to want to see, hear, touch, each other.

And before you say it, I know deep down Im missing my own point and not seeing the forest through the trees

Nessa,

How did you get to know your husband?

You spent time with him.

You talked to him.

You listened to him.

It's the same way getting to know God.

Spending time with Him, talking to Him, and listening to Him, means praying, and reading the bible. It may seem like I'm oversimplifying it, but I'm not.

It's simple in concept, but it's not always easy to do.

Just like you could ask others who know your husband, to tell you about him, you're really not going to know him yourself, unless you take the time to know him.

It's the same with God. You can ask everyone else about God. But until you take the time to have a relationship with Him, it's not the same.

Nessa wrote:

RickD wrote:Nessa,

Go pray and read the bible.

I'm kidding, but I'm really not. How I got to know who Jesus is, was primarily through scripture. Scripture is the main way God speaks to us. The more times you read it, the better you'll understand. And of course ask specific questions here.

Maybe its hard to explain but it's like I want to know him, just dont want to know about him.

Like if I care about someone I can store up facts and knowledge about them but it's not the same as knowing them on a heart level, where what they say no longer becomes just facts about themselves but you start to experience the person themselves.

I would love to travel back in time, and sit with him alone and talk and listen. Maybe I would never leave. But he said himself that it was better that he leaves. Go back to the father.

Is it wrong to want the human form of jesus him next to you. To experience him that way? Not just praying and trying to make yourself believe he's there.

I dont know, I feel rippped off. Maybe it's my personality tho, and how I get to really know and experience people.

In my heart what I want the most is to hear him. I want to hear God's voice. I want personal revelation. That is the thing that gets me the most. I want God's audible voice. I want tone. Angry, happy, sad, funny. Its natural for humans to want to see, hear, touch, each other.

And before you say it, I know deep down Im missing my own point and not seeing the forest through the trees

Everyone of us longs to see,hear and even touch Jesus but we know that we will when we get to heaven,until then we have the Holy Spirit,of course Jesus has appeared to muslims in the middle east and they became Christians however it is almost impossible to preach the gospel in Islamic countries but here in the west we can know all about Jesus and the gospel.

RickD wrote:Nessa,

How did you get to know your husband?

You spent time with him.

You talked to him.

You listened to him.

It's the same way getting to know God.

Spending time with Him, talking to Him, and listening to Him, means praying, and reading the bible. It may seem like I'm oversimplifying it, but I'm not.

It's simple in concept, but it's not always easy to do.

Just like you could ask others who know your husband, to tell you about him, you're really not going to know him yourself, unless you take the time to know him.

It's the same with God. You can ask everyone else about God. But until you take the time to have a relationship with Him, it's not the same.

When Kerry and I were just friends (though really hate saying it that way as I feel it demeans friendship) we would sit on the the youthline porch where we would volunteer. Just us. I would be so shy couldnt even look him in the eyes for awhile. We talked and talked. And smoked. (Shall we have a confessional thread maybe ). Anyway, I treasure that time. But to me it was real. We were both there. I dont know, I cant seem to get to a similar place with God. It was nice talking in the dark too, stars and such

I have done all those things you are suggesting rick, hasnt worked so far

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Nessa wrote:

RickD wrote:Nessa,

Go pray and read the bible.

I'm kidding, but I'm really not. How I got to know who Jesus is, was primarily through scripture. Scripture is the main way God speaks to us. The more times you read it, the better you'll understand. And of course ask specific questions here.

Maybe its hard to explain but it's like I want to know him, just dont want to know about him.

Like if I care about someone I can store up facts and knowledge about them but it's not the same as knowing them on a heart level, where what they say no longer becomes just facts about themselves but you start to experience the person themselves.

I would love to travel back in time, and sit with him alone and talk and listen. Maybe I would never leave. But he said himself that it was better that he leaves. Go back to the father.

Is it wrong to want the human form of jesus him next to you. To experience him that way? Not just praying and trying to make yourself believe he's there.

I dont know, I feel rippped off. Maybe it's my personality tho, and how I get to really know and experience people.

In my heart what I want the most is to hear him. I want to hear God's voice. I want personal revelation. That is the thing that gets me the most. I want God's audible voice. I want tone. Angry, happy, sad, funny. Its natural for humans to want to see, hear, touch, each other.

And before you say it, I know deep down Im missing my own point and not seeing the forest through the trees

Everyone of us longs to see,hear and even touch Jesus but we know that we will when we get to heaven,until then we have the Holy Spirit,of course Jesus has appeared to muslims in the middle east and they became Christians however it is almost impossible to preach the gospel in Islamic countries but here in the west we can know all about Jesus and the gospel.

Even that peeves me off! I mean I dont get to hear God audibly or get visions cos I am in NZ?

Nessa wrote:

RickD wrote:Nessa,

How did you get to know your husband?

You spent time with him.

You talked to him.

You listened to him.

It's the same way getting to know God.

Spending time with Him, talking to Him, and listening to Him, means praying, and reading the bible. It may seem like I'm oversimplifying it, but I'm not.

It's simple in concept, but it's not always easy to do.

Just like you could ask others who know your husband, to tell you about him, you're really not going to know him yourself, unless you take the time to know him.

It's the same with God. You can ask everyone else about God. But until you take the time to have a relationship with Him, it's not the same.

When Kerry and I were just friends (though really hate saying it that way as I feel it demeans friendship) we would sit on the the youthline porch where we would volunteer. Just us. I would be so shy couldnt even look him in the eyes for awhile. We talked and talked. And smoked. (Shall we have a confessional thread maybe ). Anyway, I treasure that time. But to me it was real. We were both there. I dont know, I cant seem to get to a similar place with God. It was nice talking in the dark too, stars and such

I have done all those things you are suggesting rick, hasnt worked so far

If you're expecting Jesus to come to New Zealand, sit on the porch with you, and smoke a cancer stick with you, I'm pretty sure that won't happen.

I can say, I don't sit and have conversations with Jesus. And I don't hear audible voices from him. I'd describe it more as God speaking to me in my spirit. In my being.

It's not a physical relationship. It's a spiritual one.

RickD wrote:

Nessa wrote:

RickD wrote:Nessa,

How did you get to know your husband?

You spent time with him.

You talked to him.

You listened to him.

It's the same way getting to know God.

Spending time with Him, talking to Him, and listening to Him, means praying, and reading the bible. It may seem like I'm oversimplifying it, but I'm not.

It's simple in concept, but it's not always easy to do.

Just like you could ask others who know your husband, to tell you about him, you're really not going to know him yourself, unless you take the time to know him.

It's the same with God. You can ask everyone else about God. But until you take the time to have a relationship with Him, it's not the same.

When Kerry and I were just friends (though really hate saying it that way as I feel it demeans friendship) we would sit on the the youthline porch where we would volunteer. Just us. I would be so shy couldnt even look him in the eyes for awhile. We talked and talked. And smoked. (Shall we have a confessional thread maybe ). Anyway, I treasure that time. But to me it was real. We were both there. I dont know, I cant seem to get to a similar place with God. It was nice talking in the dark too, stars and such

I have done all those things you are suggesting rick, hasnt worked so far

If you're expecting Jesus to come to New Zealand, sit on the porch with you, and smoke a cancer stick with you, I'm pretty sure that won't happen.

I can say, I don't sit and have conversations with Jesus. And I don't hear audible voices from him. I'd describe it more as God speaking to me in my spirit. In my being.

It's not a physical relationship. It's a spiritual one.

Yes, but it wasnt that way for everyone.

For 33years he had relationships with people as a man. Why is it wrong to want what the disciples experienced - at least for awhile.

Nessa wrote:

RickD wrote:

Nessa wrote:

RickD wrote:Nessa,

How did you get to know your husband?

You spent time with him.

You talked to him.

You listened to him.

It's the same way getting to know God.

Spending time with Him, talking to Him, and listening to Him, means praying, and reading the bible. It may seem like I'm oversimplifying it, but I'm not.

It's simple in concept, but it's not always easy to do.

Just like you could ask others who know your husband, to tell you about him, you're really not going to know him yourself, unless you take the time to know him.

It's the same with God. You can ask everyone else about God. But until you take the time to have a relationship with Him, it's not the same.

When Kerry and I were just friends (though really hate saying it that way as I feel it demeans friendship) we would sit on the the youthline porch where we would volunteer. Just us. I would be so shy couldnt even look him in the eyes for awhile. We talked and talked. And smoked. (Shall we have a confessional thread maybe ). Anyway, I treasure that time. But to me it was real. We were both there. I dont know, I cant seem to get to a similar place with God. It was nice talking in the dark too, stars and such

I have done all those things you are suggesting rick, hasnt worked so far

If you're expecting Jesus to come to New Zealand, sit on the porch with you, and smoke a cancer stick with you, I'm pretty sure that won't happen.

I can say, I don't sit and have conversations with Jesus. And I don't hear audible voices from him. I'd describe it more as God speaking to me in my spirit. In my being.

It's not a physical relationship. It's a spiritual one.

Yes, but it wasnt that way for everyone.

For 33years he had relationships with people as a man. Why is it wrong to want what the disciples experienced - at least for awhile.

Maybe I'm completely missing something.

He had relationships with people as a man, because he lived as a man. He's not living as a man on earth anymore.

Did you forget?

He left the comforter for us. The Holy Spirit is in you, if you have trusted Christ for salvation. That's what I meant about it being a spiritual relationship.

Why want for a physical friendship, when Christ lives inside you?

Some thoughts:

HEARING God audibly - that will come again for us - for almost all, post this earth - or at least on the NEW earth. We forget that when we read through the Bible, it SEEMS like one continuous series of God communicating directly. However, you can read a few pages and it covers a VERY long period of time. There were long periods where God was silent to Israel. And, although He spoke directly to some, it was mostly prophets or Apostles like Paul.

Does God laugh - are you kidding? You and I wouldn't be ABLE to laugh, to appreciate humor, if JESUS hadn't created us with this ability. Ever see dogs laughing? Cats? No so much.

Emotion: Think of how God lamented over Israel and the killing of His prophets. Of Jesus' sadness at death. His anger at the money changers. His love of children. His love shown to those He was close to. HIS death - what great love, eh?!!!

God DOES want relationship, but so often WE are lazy in not devoting time to Him, in prayer, in study. And so, neglect God, the relationship (but not God's LOVE) cools. And we must also remember this: WE need God desperately. He is complete in the fellowship of His Trinity, lacking nothing. And while He passionately desires a relationship with us, loves us beyond comprehension, God doe not NEED us! Also, it is entirely possible, that in our present sin-filled shells, we could not handle the proximity of God or a direct relationship, up close and personal. Jesus, as also fully man, dialed back some of His God attributes so as not to consume those in His presence.

To echo Rick, God's Spirit inside is far more important than the physical. Of course, we have a hard time understanding this.

Rick told you, «It's not a physical relationship. It's a spiritual one.»

If you keep on insisting on a relationship where you get visions, hear Jesus audibly and get personal revelations, you are setting yourself up for a stint in the madhouse.

Nessa wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Nessa wrote:

RickD wrote:Nessa,

Go pray and read the bible.

I'm kidding, but I'm really not. How I got to know who Jesus is, was primarily through scripture. Scripture is the main way God speaks to us. The more times you read it, the better you'll understand. And of course ask specific questions here.

Maybe its hard to explain but it's like I want to know him, just dont want to know about him.

Like if I care about someone I can store up facts and knowledge about them but it's not the same as knowing them on a heart level, where what they say no longer becomes just facts about themselves but you start to experience the person themselves.

I would love to travel back in time, and sit with him alone and talk and listen. Maybe I would never leave. But he said himself that it was better that he leaves. Go back to the father.

Is it wrong to want the human form of jesus him next to you. To experience him that way? Not just praying and trying to make yourself believe he's there.

I dont know, I feel rippped off. Maybe it's my personality tho, and how I get to really know and experience people.

In my heart what I want the most is to hear him. I want to hear God's voice. I want personal revelation. That is the thing that gets me the most. I want God's audible voice. I want tone. Angry, happy, sad, funny. Its natural for humans to want to see, hear, touch, each other.

And before you say it, I know deep down Im missing my own point and not seeing the forest through the trees

Everyone of us longs to see,hear and even touch Jesus but we know that we will when we get to heaven,until then we have the Holy Spirit,of course Jesus has appeared to muslims in the middle east and they became Christians however it is almost impossible to preach the gospel in Islamic countries but here in the west we can know all about Jesus and the gospel.

Even that peeves me off! I mean I dont get to hear God audibly or get visions cos I am in NZ?

God is not willing that any perish not even muslims so how could he reach muslims with us who are his hands and feet as you acknowledged? In NZ you have the freedom to hear about Jesus and have bibles,hebrew/Greek concordances,etc and can laern all about Jesus and the gospels,now I'm not saying Jesus can't appear to you in a dream or vision like he has muslims,but it is probably less likely because you have every oppurtunity to learn about Jesus and get to know him where you live. To whom much is given, much is required.