Evidence for God from Science

I didn't know where this topic should be posted.

My senior Pastor of my United Methodist Church is holding 6 sessions on Islam based on the video series "The Jesus Fatwah" http://www.livingthequestions.com/xcart ... hp?cat=493

I review it for him and gave him 10 pages of typed notes.

In my opinion it is an apologetic for Islam.

I found some "flaws" in it.

My Pastor did not respond to my notes.

The sessions begin this Saturday and continue for 6 weeks. If things work out he will have a female Muslim in attendance to answer questions. The sessions will be held in an building next to the church.

The purpose according to my Pastor is to try to understand Islamic thought and look at that faith and ways it has been hijacked by those who would use it to further their own agenda!

I plan to attend.

This is where you guys come in.

I am trying to think of some questions that will not come across as a slam against Islam and Muhammad; questions that will not upset the Muslim lady and the Christian audience.

My Pastor and the Junior Pastor both admitted to me that they have only read portions of the Qur'an. I wonder how they can ask questions if they don't know what Islam teaches?

Can any of you suggest some "innocent" questions I might consider asking?

Thank you.

You're pastor has obviously gone bonkers.
Such is my experience with "Uniting" though...

You know, we always hear stories in media of children sexually abused in churches.
UMC have a page on what they believe on this issue: http://www.umc.org/what-we-believe/redu ... the-church
Elaborate on UMC's position, then ask for Muslim thoughts on children sexually abused in churches, and whether Islamic churches have their own policies? Follow up with a question on how old Muhammad’s wife Aisha was when he wedded her, and then we he consummated their marriage.

You can also mention this recent happening in Pakistan:
Bill banning child marriage fails in Pakistan after it’s deemed ‘un-Islamic’

And if they avoid your question on Aisha, quote Bukhari 5.58.234.

Well, it might be a bit harsh, but, I'd ask how can Allah be perfect if his love isn't perfect/absolute. He does not love sinners like God does, right?
Idk, I gave you an idea of comparing Absolute Love between those 2 Gods because one hangs out and helps the sinners (Matthew 15:24) and the other punishes them (I'm sorry if I understood this wrong, concerning the Islam and Allah part).

Kurieuo wrote:You're pastor has obviously gone bonkers.
Such is my experience with "Uniting" though...

You know, we always hear stories in media of children sexually abused in churches.
UMC have a page on what they believe on this issue: http://www.umc.org/what-we-believe/redu ... the-church
Elaborate on UMC's position, then ask for Muslim thoughts on children sexually abused in churches, and whether Islamic churches have their own policies? Follow up with a question on how old Muhammad’s wife Aisha was when he wedded her, and then we he consummated their marriage.

Thanks Kurieuo, even though I agree with you, I think it is too explosive a question. Some might say that children married early in that culture and Aisha had the permission of her father. However, usually if children marry at that age they usually marry someone near their age and Muhammad was 52-53 years old and was experienced sexually.

Kurieuo wrote:You can also mention this recent happening in Pakistan:
Bill banning child marriage fails in Pakistan after it’s deemed ‘un-Islamic’

And if they avoid your question on Aisha, quote Bukhari 5.58.234.

Muslim men want to do what Muhammad did -- marry children -- some of these die as a result and some are so damaged they cannot have children.

Bukhari :: Book 5 :: Volume 58 :: Hadith 234

Narrated Aisha:

The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

Aisha never had children. Is this the reason?

I plan to ask some questions that contradict Christianity so the audience can see the difference.

Why does the Qur'an say Jesus did not die, was not crucified, much less rose from the dead when Jesus predicted He would, making Jesus a liar and a false prophet?

What is Shirk? Shirk will bring in the incarnation?

Why did Allah say He couldn't have a son without a wife when Mary had a son without a husband?

Why don't Muslims believe in the concept of Original Sin?

What do Muslims understand by the term Original Sin?

I think you're on the right track.

Maybe show who the bible says Jesus is, and contrast that with who the Koran says Jesus is(or isn't).

RickD wrote:I think you're on the right track.

Maybe show who the bible says Jesus is, and contrast that with who the Koran says Jesus is(or isn't).

Thanks Rick,

I suggested my Pastor not bring in a Muslim, but he didn't take my advice.

The problem is I don't know anyone who has read the Qur'an in that church, including the Pastors, so how will the Christian audience know what questions to ask?

I'm the only one that I know of and I was taught Islam and the Qur'an for 3 years on an Islamic site, starting in 2002.

The Qur'an says that Jesus is THE Messiah which matches the Bible, but the Qur'an also says Jesus is just a messenger, but being THE Messiah means He is more than a prophet/messenger.

The author of the Qur'an says that Jesus couldn't be God because He had to eat food, which strongly suggests that the author of the Qur'an had never heard of the incarnation.

I wonder what the Pastor meant when he said Islam has been hijacked??? Didn't George Bush say something similar?

I know there are good peaceful Muslims -- I've met some. Maybe he thinks if the Christians hear that the majority of Muslims are peaceful, they will have nothing to fear, but that is ridiculous because there are so many radical Muslims and we DO have something to fear.

If it were me, I'd keep it simple.

Most people aren't familiar with what the Koran says. But I think most Christians are familiar with 1 John. Specifically, 1 John 4:2-3. John was giving a warning, that the Holy Spirit isn't the only spirit manifested in the world. And the way to tell the difference between the Holy Spirit, and another spirit, is what he said in 1 John 4:2-3:

2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

Simply ask the Muslim, "Do you confess Jesus Christ is God in the flesh?"

If she dodges, and doesn't give a direct answer, press her.

Islam is no different than any false religion that does not confess Jesus Christ is God, who came in the flesh.

And also, since you've studied the Koran, you know it says that God has no son. Which obviously, is in direct contrast to Jesus Christ of scripture.

I think it's great.

Brave lady.

Ask her what her God means to her.
Ask her to explain why she believes what she does.
Why did she come talk to you?

Discussion and understanding. Uniting.

I like it.

Try this, as well: https://youtu.be/UuCPgpQl34g?t=11m8s

Here's some great info on key problems with Islam, per Dr. Norman Geisler - a good start:

https://www.jashow.org/articles/guests- ... n-geisler/

If you want to cut to the heart the matter, you might simply ask: Does it matter or not - as for a person attaining salvation - to believe that 1) Jesus is God, 2) that He died for our sins on a Roman Cross, 3) that He rose again, 4) that we must have faith in His ability and desire to save us, 5) that we must call upon Him for forgiveness, 6) that there is NO other name upon which one can call to be saved - not Budha, not Allah, etc. - no one else besides Jesus? What ye say to these things?

I would say the answers you receive will tell you whether you will stay or not.

Christian2 wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:You can also mention this recent happening in Pakistan:
Bill banning child marriage fails in Pakistan after it’s deemed ‘un-Islamic’

And if they avoid your question on Aisha, quote Bukhari 5.58.234.

Muslim men want to do what Muhammad did -- marry children -- some of these die as a result and some are so damaged they cannot have children.

Bukhari :: Book 5 :: Volume 58 :: Hadith 234

Narrated Aisha:

The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

Aisha never had children. Is this the reason?

I didn't pick up on that, but Muhammad came to her when she was nine. Married at 6, sex at 9.

Bukhari 7.62.88 is more clear: "The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death)."

It is absolutely abhorrable. My daughter is almost 9. You know, Islam and even Muhammad is quite revolting and this is kind of hidden from Western people. They really ought to know things like this, rather than the shiny exterior form of a more "moral" form of Islam they market in the West.

But, then, for whatever reason maybe you should respect the pastor of your church.
If I was someone non-affiliate and in the audience, and prepared, then this is a stick I'd poke.
I don't consider any truth off limits. If I knew the pastor, then I'd probably discuss with him first.
If he reacted negatively to me even mentioning such to him, then his agenda is obvious and I'd lose all respect.

K: If I knew the pastor, then I'd probably discuss with him first. If he reacted negatively to me even mentioning such to him, then his agenda is obvious and I'd lose all respect.

Yes, this would be very telling. As this pastor is supposedly a minister of the Gospel, if this series asserts that Islam has more of a PR problem than one of a false and dangerous theology, or that we shouldn't be concerned, or that asserts we "worship the same God" - if it ignores that Muslims need salvation - then, also, you'll know the agenda. If you go online and see some of the churches that are running this series, it gives you reason to be very wary.