Evidence for God from Science

This is really only for Christians.

Let me provide a little backdrop to myself and spiritual journey in Christ.
My mum and dad were Christian, believed in the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and Evangelical in nature.
So my Christian life while living at home up until I left at 18 years was very much one of experiencing Christ, experiencing the Holy Spirit, just being saturated with Christian religious beliefs that were very Evangelical in nature.

I'd heard all the religious phrases, "saved by the bloody of Jesus", "Christ the Lamb of God", "By His stripes we are healed", and read Scripture like it is by grace we have been saved through faith, etc. While I considered myself saved and a Christian, for I'd experience God and the working of the Holy Spirit even within my own life, the Christianity I'd be brought up with was more of an experiential one and lacked sound theological doctrine.

If you asked me questions like, "how I was saved?" I'd probably have said something like, "from Jesus dying on the cross."
Q: How does that save?
A: Well, because he shed His blood for us.
Q: Why does his dying save us?
A: Because he's the Son of God and He gave his life for us.

In other words, there's a lot of religious language there. Probing deeper, I probably couldn't have gone beyond the religious language I was taught and just saturated with growing up to give any real deep theological response. Heck, I hadn't even read the Bible from cover to cover until after leaving home!

Then I did start to read Scripture. My memory is now faint, but I believe my story went something like this. Knowing I always got stuck at Leviticus or Numbers, I tried my luck with the NT. I found it surprisingly easier to read. Then I hit Romans. Things started getting more difficult to understand. Romans 2 perplexed me, with passages like:

• "12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous."

But, we're saved by Christ I told myself. He bore our sin.. other Scripture says other things. Now I'm receiving a different message. I felt depressed. I mean all Scripture is God's Word I thought, so how do I reconcile such with what I'd read elsewhere and been taught. My security in Christ started flaking. Yet, then Romans 3 was more what I knew with passages like:

• This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Scripture, I was finding, seemed to say one thing elsewhere (works theology) and then another things elsewhere (that it's alright, Christ died for us). I was confused. But, there was something about Romans. Thankfully, my dad had several very thick books (a volume) commentary on Romans by Martin Lloyd-Jones.

It was while reading Martin Lloyd-Jones' commentary on Romans that my eyes were opened. While reading his commentary volume that the penny dropped. Christianity made sense in a new light and the theology, the Gospel, just gained such enriching substance.

Why we needed to be saved. What it meant to be saved. God's righteousness, and something I heard less of, God's righteous wrath. Security in God's grace versus the works-based theologies of sin and guilt that a great deal of Christians preach. I'm very much in debt to Martin Lloyd-Jones, for while I was saturated with Christianity, and still consider I was saved back then, Jones gave me my first real true understanding and taste of the Gospel in a substantial way.

So then, imagine my delight when I recently came across Martin Lloyd-Jones entire set of sermons on Romans, downloadable online in MP3 format! They can be legally downloaded to and listened to here

Now, these are not something you can just rush through, and really, I don't recommend anyone just listen to them that way. If you think people like Jac, me and others just like to blabber on, we have nothing on Martin Lloyd-Jones. And yet, I don't consider his words blabber at all. The insights Jone' provides, in many cases you'll probably be glad he didn't rush through.

Also, some, presumably will find them boring I'm sure. I mean, he's talking through stuff and he's not using the style typical of modern pastors today. Just giving raw theology in a very sincere and serious manner. Unless you're just theologically inclined, then you'll need to make space to listen to them.

I'd highly recommend them, they get better as they go along. I've listened to a few already, and have again been enriched by his teachings. I'll be listening to them one-by-one alongside my wife over the coming weeks. I'd love to encourage others also to at least get a taste and listen to several. Starts off slow, but a few in they get better and better.

K, how long do these run, time-wise?

K, I'm sure his insights are wonderful. But I'm thinking reading would be much more fruitful for most, if more expensive. It's sometimes really hard to LISTEN through such musings, especially if they plod on and ON. As much as I love C.S. Lewis' writings - even if not modern in delivery - to HEAR him speak is like listening to just the audio of a VERY dull Masterpiece Theater episode. His radio lectures are excruciating to listen to. So, if this is anything like that, it will lose all but the most ambitious and patient. Your wife must have a FAR greater attention span for lecture material - my wife nods off in church all the time .

Holy cow! That's almost twelve days of non-stop, 24 hour per day lecturing.

Maybe I shouldn't feel so bad if I take two months of Sundays in 1 John . . .

Still, this could make a fun hobby. Thanks for the link.

Kurieuo wrote:This is really only for Christians.

Let me provide a little backdrop to myself and spiritual journey in Christ.
My mum and dad were Christian, believed in the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and Evangelical in nature.
So my Christian life while living at home up until I left at 18 years was very much one of experiencing Christ, experiencing the Holy Spirit, just being saturated with Christian religious beliefs that were very Evangelical in nature.

I'd heard all the religious phrases, "saved by the bloody of Jesus", "Christ the Lamb of God", "By His stripes we are healed", and read Scripture like it is by grace we have been saved through faith, etc. While I considered myself saved and a Christian, for I'd experience God and the working of the Holy Spirit even within my own life, the Christianity I'd be brought up with was more of an experiential one and lacked sound theological doctrine.

If you asked me questions like, "how I was saved?" I'd probably have said something like, "from Jesus dying on the cross."
Q: How does that save?
A: Well, because he shed His blood for us.
Q: Why does his dying save us?
A: Because he's the Son of God and He gave his life for us.

In other words, there's a lot of religious language there. Probing deeper, I probably could have gone beyond the religious language I was taught and just saturated with growing up to give any real deep theological response. Heck, I hadn't even read the Bible from cover to cover until after leaving home!

Then I did start to read Scripture. My memory is now faint, but I believe my story went something like this. Knowing I always got stuck at Leviticus or Numbers, I tried my luck with the NT. I found it surprisingly easier to read. Then I hit Romans. Things started getting more difficult to understand. Romans 2 perplexed me, with passages like:

• "12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous."

But, we're saved by Christ I told myself. He bore our sin.. other Scripture says other things. Now I'm receiving a different message. I felt depressed. I mean all Scripture is God's Word I thought, so how do I reconcile such with what I'd read elsewhere and been taught. My security in Christ started flaking. Yet, then Romans 3 was more what I knew with passages like:

• This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Scripture, I was finding, seemed to say one thing elsewhere (works theology) and then another things elsewhere (that it's alright, Christ died for us). I was confused. But, there was something about Romans. Thankfully, my dad had several very thick books (a volume) commentary on Romans by Martin Lloyd-Jones.

It was while reading Martin Lloyd-Jones' commentary on Romans that my eyes were opened. While reading his commentary volume that the penny dropped. Christianity made sense in a new light and the theology, the Gospel, just gained such enriching substance.

Why we needed to be saved. What it meant to be saved. God's righteousness, and something I heard less of, God's righteous wrath. Security in God's grace versus the works-based theologies of sin and guilt that a great deal of Christians preach. I'm very much in debt to Martin Lloyd-Jones, for while I was saturated with Christianity, and still consider I was saved back then, Jones gave me my first real true understanding and taste of the Gospel in a substantial way.

So then, imagine my delight when I recently came across Martin Lloyd-Jones entire set of sermons on Romans, downloadable online in MP3 format! They can be legally downloaded to and listened to here

Now, these are not something you can just rush through, and really, I don't recommend anyone just listen to them that way. If you think people like Jac, me and others just like to blabber on, we have nothing on Martin Lloyd-Jones. And yet, I don't consider his words blabber at all. The insights Jone' provides, in many cases you'll probably be glad he didn't rush through.

Also, some, presumably will find them boring I'm sure. I mean, he's talking through stuff and he's not using the style typical of modern pastors today. Just giving raw theology in a very sincere and serious manner. Unless you're just theologically inclined, then you'll need to make space to listen to them.

I'd highly recommend them, they get better as they go along. I've listened to a few already, and have again been enriched by his teachings. I'll be listening to them one-by-one alongside my wife over the coming weeks. I'd love to encourage others also to at least get a taste and listen to several. Starts of slow, but a few in they get better and better.

If anyone wants to listen but not download, you can youtube him.
Just do a search.. The 'gospel channel' has uploaded quite a few Roman talks, as well as other ones

Philip wrote:K, how long do these run, time-wise?

K, I'm sure his insights are wonderful. But I'm thinking reading would be much more fruitful for most, if more expensive. It's sometimes really hard to LISTEN through such musings, especially if they plod on and ON. As much as I love C.S. Lewis' writings - even if not modern in delivery - to HEAR him speak is like listening to just the audio of a VERY dull Masterpiece Theater episode. His radio lectures are excruciating to listen to. So, if this is anything like that, it will lose all but the most ambitious and patient. Your wife must have a FAR greater attention span for lecture material - my wife nods off in church all the time .

His sermons go for around 50 mins each or so.

Yes, books are good... but some people never read books.
Audios can make for good listening in the car or what-have-you.
This is Martin Lloyd-Jones btw, not C.S. Lewis.

Dull, people may find the monotone voice dull, but if you listen to the content then...
well maybe it's the theological side of me, but I get drawn in.

Jac3510 wrote:Holy cow! That's almost twelve days of non-stop, 24 hour per day lecturing.

Maybe I shouldn't feel so bad if I take two months of Sundays in 1 John . . .

Still, this could make a fun hobby. Thanks for the link.

Us youngins had nothing on the old olds I think.
We're use to trying to rush things or lose the audience.
I'm sure you'll really appreciate some of his insights Jac.
There's lots to drawn from in regard to any grace-based Gospel.

Nessa wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:This is really only for Christians.

Let me provide a little backdrop to myself and spiritual journey in Christ.
My mum and dad were Christian, believed in the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and Evangelical in nature.
So my Christian life while living at home up until I left at 18 years was very much one of experiencing Christ, experiencing the Holy Spirit, just being saturated with Christian religious beliefs that were very Evangelical in nature.

I'd heard all the religious phrases, "saved by the bloody of Jesus", "Christ the Lamb of God", "By His stripes we are healed", and read Scripture like it is by grace we have been saved through faith, etc. While I considered myself saved and a Christian, for I'd experience God and the working of the Holy Spirit even within my own life, the Christianity I'd be brought up with was more of an experiential one and lacked sound theological doctrine.

If you asked me questions like, "how I was saved?" I'd probably have said something like, "from Jesus dying on the cross."
Q: How does that save?
A: Well, because he shed His blood for us.
Q: Why does his dying save us?
A: Because he's the Son of God and He gave his life for us.

In other words, there's a lot of religious language there. Probing deeper, I probably could have gone beyond the religious language I was taught and just saturated with growing up to give any real deep theological response. Heck, I hadn't even read the Bible from cover to cover until after leaving home!

Then I did start to read Scripture. My memory is now faint, but I believe my story went something like this. Knowing I always got stuck at Leviticus or Numbers, I tried my luck with the NT. I found it surprisingly easier to read. Then I hit Romans. Things started getting more difficult to understand. Romans 2 perplexed me, with passages like:

• "12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous."

But, we're saved by Christ I told myself. He bore our sin.. other Scripture says other things. Now I'm receiving a different message. I felt depressed. I mean all Scripture is God's Word I thought, so how do I reconcile such with what I'd read elsewhere and been taught. My security in Christ started flaking. Yet, then Romans 3 was more what I knew with passages like:

• This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Scripture, I was finding, seemed to say one thing elsewhere (works theology) and then another things elsewhere (that it's alright, Christ died for us). I was confused. But, there was something about Romans. Thankfully, my dad had several very thick books (a volume) commentary on Romans by Martin Lloyd-Jones.

It was while reading Martin Lloyd-Jones' commentary on Romans that my eyes were opened. While reading his commentary volume that the penny dropped. Christianity made sense in a new light and the theology, the Gospel, just gained such enriching substance.

Why we needed to be saved. What it meant to be saved. God's righteousness, and something I heard less of, God's righteous wrath. Security in God's grace versus the works-based theologies of sin and guilt that a great deal of Christians preach. I'm very much in debt to Martin Lloyd-Jones, for while I was saturated with Christianity, and still consider I was saved back then, Jones gave me my first real true understanding and taste of the Gospel in a substantial way.

So then, imagine my delight when I recently came across Martin Lloyd-Jones entire set of sermons on Romans, downloadable online in MP3 format! They can be legally downloaded to and listened to here

Now, these are not something you can just rush through, and really, I don't recommend anyone just listen to them that way. If you think people like Jac, me and others just like to blabber on, we have nothing on Martin Lloyd-Jones. And yet, I don't consider his words blabber at all. The insights Jone' provides, in many cases you'll probably be glad he didn't rush through.

Also, some, presumably will find them boring I'm sure. I mean, he's talking through stuff and he's not using the style typical of modern pastors today. Just giving raw theology in a very sincere and serious manner. Unless you're just theologically inclined, then you'll need to make space to listen to them.

I'd highly recommend them, they get better as they go along. I've listened to a few already, and have again been enriched by his teachings. I'll be listening to them one-by-one alongside my wife over the coming weeks. I'd love to encourage others also to at least get a taste and listen to several. Starts of slow, but a few in they get better and better.

If anyone wants to listen but not download, you can youtube him.
Just do a search.. The 'gospel channel' has uploaded quite a few Roman talks, as well as other ones

She spoke again! I didn't think of even searching YouTube.

Here's a nice one (despite the strange cover image):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRJ4BQsAgLw

Kurieuo wrote:

Jac3510 wrote:Holy cow! That's almost twelve days of non-stop, 24 hour per day lecturing.

Maybe I shouldn't feel so bad if I take two months of Sundays in 1 John . . .

Still, this could make a fun hobby. Thanks for the link.

You us newbs had nothing on the olds.
We're use to trying to rush things or lose the audience.
I'm sure you'll really appreciate some of his insights Jac.
There's lots to drawn from in regard to any grace-based Gospel.

I've enjoyed what I've heard so far. In fact, his comments on Romans 6:1 to this day are still helpful for me. Bottom line, he points out that if no one has ever accused you of antinomianism, then you aren't preaching the gospel.

Kurieuo wrote:

Philip wrote:K, how long do these run, time-wise?

K, I'm sure his insights are wonderful. But I'm thinking reading would be much more fruitful for most, if more expensive. It's sometimes really hard to LISTEN through such musings, especially if they plod on and ON. As much as I love C.S. Lewis' writings - even if not modern in delivery - to HEAR him speak is like listening to just the audio of a VERY dull Masterpiece Theater episode. His radio lectures are excruciating to listen to. So, if this is anything like that, it will lose all but the most ambitious and patient. Your wife must have a FAR greater attention span for lecture material - my wife nods off in church all the time .

His sermons go for around 50 mins each or so.

Yes, books are good... but some people never read books.
Audios can make for good listening in the car or what-have-you.
This is Martin Lloyd-Jones btw, not C.S. Lewis.

Dull, people may find the monotone voice dull, but if you listen to the content then...
well maybe it's the theological side of me, but I get drawn in.

I've already listened to two. He's a good preacher. For me, easy to listen to. Just put them on in the car or (in my case) while you're doing some chore around the house.

I think what I like most about him, is he's NOT doing philosophy with apologetics after so many Christian thinkers today.
And his theology isn't your shallow preacher message about life with a reference to Scripture here and there.
Jones is just focusing upon Christ and raw theology.

Sometimes as Christians, for myself anyway, all that other rackus can really distract from moving on spiritually in our own lives with God and Christ. You know we get hung up on researching new proofs. Debating this and that. Such all keeps us in shallow waters, like we're continually trying to mind the kids in small waves crashing on the beach.

How refreshing it is to just finally get a chance to swim out to deeper waters and dive full body length under the waves. That's what I find with Jones' teachings now. It's like I've been in the shallow defending and trying to coax people to see... but then I don't get to focus on what I do see, lay that colder philosophy aside and get deeper into theology, even the warmer Christology of things where my heart actually lies.

I like these kinds of teachings,so thanks for letting me know. This kind of stuff is the meat and potatoes stuff that we need from God's word.It does'nt bother me to listen to them or read them, I'd do either. I like good bible teaching and always have.

Promised by the Prophets was a good one.

Kurieuo wrote:Promised by the Prophets was a good one.

I listened to this one and I liked it.This was a very good teaching.I like how he brings things out and explains what you might have overlooked too.It is so clear to me that the OT prophets prophesied the coming of Jesus and yet,listen to skeptics? And they'll explain it all away and its not just atheists or agnostics but Jews in Judaism and people in other religions too.It is clear as a bell the OT prophets prophesied the coming of Jesus.They must ignore the facts and evidence to claim what they do.Prophecy is one of the greatest proofs God is real and knows the future. Isaiah 46:5-13 And we have proof.

Thanks K.

Have a book or two of his!
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