Evidence for God from Science

. . .or was he a man whose father happened to be god, who invested Jesus with special powers?


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Audacity wrote:. . .or was he a man whose father happened to be god, who invested Jesus with special powers?
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John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

John 17:5 "Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was."

All Verses quoted from the NASB
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Yes, he's God the Son. The Trinity is three persons who are the same in essence but different in... um, can't think how to put it - Kurieuo or someone will know. So Jesus has always existed as part of the Godhead but he was born on earth more recently to live as a human.

Audacity wrote:. . .or was he a man whose father happened to be god, who invested Jesus with special powers?


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Are you asking us or about to tell us?

Nessa wrote:

Audacity wrote:. . .or was he a man whose father happened to be god, who invested Jesus with special powers?


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Are you asking us or about to tell us?

Because there are arguments on both sides, and I have no dog in the fight, I could take either side; however, I'm looking to see how others here might present theirs. Although, if one side predominates I may step in and try to defend the other. But let's first see how it goes.


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Audacity wrote:

Nessa wrote:

Audacity wrote:. . .or was he a man whose father happened to be god, who invested Jesus with special powers?


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Are you asking us or about to tell us?

Because there are arguments on both sides, and I have no dog in the fight, I could take either side; however, I'm looking to see how others here might present theirs. Although, if one side predominates I may step in and try to defend the other. But let's first see how it goes.


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Audacity,

As you are well aware, This is a Christian site.


Please keep the board purpose in mind when you post. It's the same board purpose you agreed to abide by when you signed up and joined the forum. Pay close attention to this:

This board is not for those who have strongly made up their mind that Christ is "not" for them; who merely wish to put down, debate, and argue against essential Christian beliefs. As such, those who are Christian, have not made up their minds, or desire civilised discussions on Christianity are encouraged to join, while others who merely wish to attack and try to discredit Christianity are discouraged and will be heavily moderated.

As the belief in the deity of Christ is an essential Christian belief, if not THE most essential Christian belief, arguing against it is strictly prohibited here.

If you want to know why we believe Christ is God, why he MUST be God in order to forgive sins, then be open. You may learn something.

If, like your history here has shown us, you just want to argue, you will be heavily moderated.

Audacity wrote:. . .or was he a man whose father happened to be god, who invested Jesus with special powers?


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This is not an issue anyone but a Christian should concern themselves with.
Nonetheless, Jesus' nature is both fully God and fully man. Anything less isn't sound Christian doctrine.

The Definition of the Council of Chalcedon:

• Therefore, following the holy fathers, we all with one accord teach men to acknowledge one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, at once complete in Godhead and complete in manhood, truly God and truly man, consisting also of a reasonable soul and body; of one substance with the Father as regards his Godhead, and at the same time of one substance with us as regards his manhood; like us in all respects, apart from sin; as regards his Godhead, begotten of the Father before the ages, but yet as regards his manhood begotten, for us men and for our salvation, of Mary the Virgin, the God-bearer; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, recognized in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation; the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the union, but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and coming together to form one person and subsistence, not as parted or separated into two persons, but one and the same Son and Only-begotten God the Word, Lord Jesus Christ; even as the prophets from earliest times spoke of him, and our Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us, and the creed of the fathers has handed down to us.

In its most simple terms:

If Jesus is the Son of God ( not created by God mind you, like God's other "sons") then He MUST be God.
Why?
What would you call the son of a human father? Human of course, right?
Well, then the son of God must therefore be God.

Now, that will lead us to A god instead of God BUT that is another part of the discussion.
The first stage is to understand that if Jesus is the Son of God then He has the same nature as God and as such, must be God.

RickD wrote:

Audacity wrote:

Nessa wrote:

Audacity wrote:. . .or was he a man whose father happened to be god, who invested Jesus with special powers?


.

Are you asking us or about to tell us?

Because there are arguments on both sides, and I have no dog in the fight, I could take either side; however, I'm looking to see how others here might present theirs. Although, if one side predominates I may step in and try to defend the other. But let's first see how it goes.


.

Audacity,

As you are well aware, This is a Christian site.


Please keep the board purpose in mind when you post. It's the same board purpose you agreed to abide by when you signed up and joined the forum. Pay close attention to this:

This board is not for those who have strongly made up their mind that Christ is "not" for them; who merely wish to put down, debate, and argue against essential Christian beliefs. As such, those who are Christian, have not made up their minds, or desire civilised discussions on Christianity are encouraged to join, while others who merely wish to attack and try to discredit Christianity are discouraged and will be heavily moderated.

As the belief in the deity of Christ is an essential Christian belief, if not THE most essential Christian belief, arguing against it is strictly prohibited here.

If you want to know why we believe Christ is God, why he MUST be God in order to forgive sins, then be open. You may learn something.

If, like your history here has shown us, you just want to argue, you will be heavily moderated.

Understood, and would therefore appreciate it if you would delete the thread or close it.

Thank you
Audacity


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Audacity wrote:. . .or was he a man whose father happened to be god, who invested Jesus with special powers?


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Jesus is genuinely human and genuinely God. See John 1.

Jesus made claims for Himself that only God could make for Himself, such as the following examples:

Example 1.

Jesus: "I am the good shepherd." John 10:11

Yet, YHWH is the Shepherd.

YHWH: " Psalm 23:1. The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want.

Example 2.

Jesus: Jesus claimed to be judge of all men and nations.

John 5:27And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

Matthew 25 31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left..

Yet YHWH claims to be the judge.

YHWH:

Joel 3:
12 "Let the nations be roused;
let them advance into the Valley of Jehoshaphat,
for there I will sit
to judge all the nations on every side.

Example 3.

Jesus: John 8: 12When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.""I am the light of the world.

Yet is is YHWH who is the light.

YHWH:

Isaiah 60: 19 The sun will no more be your light by day,
nor will the brightness of the moon shine on you,
for the LORD will be your everlasting light,
and your God will be your glory.


Example 4.

Jesus described Himself as the coming bridegroom.

Matthew 25: 1"At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.

Yet, YHWH is described as the bridegroom.

YHWH:

Isaiah 62: 5 As a young man marries a maiden,
so will your sons [a] marry you;
as a bridegroom rejoices over his bride,
so will your God rejoice over you.

Hosea 2: 16 "In that day," declares the LORD,
"you will call me 'my husband';
you will no longer call me 'my master.[a]'



Example 5.

Jesus: Revelation 1:17

Revelation 1:17When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.

Yet it is YHWH who is the First and the Last.

YHWH:

Isaiah 48: 12 "Listen to me, O Jacob,
Israel, whom I have called:
I am he;
I am the first and I am the last.


Example 6.

Jesus: Jesus claimed to be the great I AM.

John 8:58,"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

Yet it is YHWH who is the Great I AM.

YHWH: Exodus 3:14

Exodus 3: 14 God said to Moses, "I am who I am .[a] This is what you are to say to the Israelites:'I AM has sent me to you.' "

John 10:30 "I and My Father are One."

Jesus Christ is the Son of God -- the 2nd part of the Godhead / Trinity.

Here is a parody written to Jehovah Witnesses that gives biblical scripture to prove the divinity of Jesus Christ that Jesus was God in human flesh,but you need to get out your bible,follow along and write down these scriptures and read them for yourself because I think even atheists would have to admit after going through this that the bible does teach that Jesus is God,even if they don't believe it. So get out your bible and follow along.

Jehovah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qT2wpj ... tml5=False

abelcainsbrother wrote:Here is a parody written to Jehovah Witnesses that gives biblical scripture to prove the divinity of Jesus Christ that Jesus was God in human flesh,but you need to get out your bible,follow along and write down these scriptures and read them for yourself because I think even atheists would have to admit after going through this that the bible does teach that Jesus is God,even if they don't believe it. So get out your bible and follow along.

Jehovah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qT2wpj ... tml5=False

The prblem with that, in regards to the JW's, is that they ONLy accept their translation of the bible as accurate and their translation ( the New World Translation) has changed those verse to mean something different.
EX; John 1:1 has been changed to "the word was a god" from The word was God.
They reinterpret Romans for example, to show that it is in Jehovah's name that we are saved and not Jesus's.

In short, you can't argue for the Trinity being biblical with bible verse with a JW because the only bible they recognized has changed and re-interpreted those bible verses to show that Jesus is not God.

PaulSacramento wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:Here is a parody written to Jehovah Witnesses that gives biblical scripture to prove the divinity of Jesus Christ that Jesus was God in human flesh,but you need to get out your bible,follow along and write down these scriptures and read them for yourself because I think even atheists would have to admit after going through this that the bible does teach that Jesus is God,even if they don't believe it. So get out your bible and follow along.

Jehovah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qT2wpj ... tml5=False

The prblem with that, in regards to the JW's, is that they ONLy accept their translation of the bible as accurate and their translation ( the New World Translation) has changed those verse to mean something different.
EX; John 1:1 has been changed to "the word was a god" from The word was God.
They reinterpret Romans for example, to show that it is in Jehovah's name that we are saved and not Jesus's.

In short, you can't argue for the Trinity being biblical with bible verse with a JW because the only bible they recognized has changed and re-interpreted those bible verses to show that Jesus is not God.

Even Acts 20:28?