Kill Hitler and go to Hell

ultimate777 · Post by **ultimate777** » Wed May 04, 2016 6:00 am

I think there can be great value in impossible hypothetical questions. I think they can help you decide what is really most important to yourself and to others. They can help stimulate your mind so it can help you in more "practical" things.
How one responds to hypothetical questions can tell volumes about one's character. Especially if someone tries to change the hypotheticals.

But I could be all wrong, its happened before. What do you think?

Anyhow here is one for you, also:

Suppose you could go back in time to just before the war and kill Hitler, but you would go to Hell when you die, otherwise
you go to heaven for sure if you just stay here?

RickD · Post by **RickD** » Wed May 04, 2016 6:20 am

Why would killing Hitler be a reason to go to hell? People don't go to hell because they murder someone, or because of any other sin they commit. People go to hell because they don't have eternal life. And they don't have eternal life because they don't trust Christ for salvation.

If you're going to make a meaningless hypothetical which changes how/why someone goes to hell, I think you need to explain why in your hypothetical world, murder sends someone to hell.

In other words, you're changing the rules, without telling what the rules in your hypothetical are.

ultimate777 · Post by **ultimate777** » Wed May 04, 2016 6:51 am

I'm sorry Rick, but I think you bear out my opinions better than I ever could, you of the sarcastic patron saint:)

Oh by the way, I understand Dietrich Bonhoffer discussed a similar question in talking about why he plotted against Hitler's life.I just ratcheded it up a few notches, as thinking people sometimes do. He said he would go to hell if that's what it took, IIRC

PaulSacramento · Post by **PaulSacramento** » Wed May 04, 2016 7:09 am

It becomes a question, a timeless question actually, of:
Ends Justify the means VS The means make the end valid.

Vergil · Post by **Vergil** » Wed May 04, 2016 8:37 am

Killing Heir Hitler and go to Hell for killing him? Why not change him for the better? seriously other than killing him (for it's easy and a easy way-out) why not change Hitler for the better?

Hmmm killing doesn't mean that you'll automatically go to hell because you killed someone, you only go to Hell if you didn't trust in Christ and God.

But in a Sci-fi way
Killing Hitler would have change the very face of the world we know today
And every choice has a consequence

Post by **Philip** » Wed May 04, 2016 9:10 am

The Bible says that he whom plots and sheds innocent blood deliberately shall himself be put to death. That's the Biblical justification for executing murderers. And Hitler didn't murder just ONE, he directed that millions be killed. Silly question.

RickD · Post by **RickD** » Wed May 04, 2016 9:14 am

Philip wrote:The Bible says that he whom plots and sheds innocent blood deliberately shall himself be put to death. That's the Biblical justification for executing murderers. And Hitler didn't murder just ONE, he directed that millions be killed. Silly question.

But in the hypothetical, I think the assumption is that Hitler hadn't killed anyone yet.

ultimate777 · Post by **ultimate777** » Wed May 04, 2016 9:24 am

You're absolutely right, Rick. My hypothetical assumes what will happen if nothing is done, that's the thing.

Post by **Philip** » Wed May 04, 2016 9:28 am

But in the hypothetical, I think the assumption is that Hitler hadn't killed anyone yet.

And the hypothetical IS that ONLY one whom lives in the present, whom also knows what a monster he turned out to be, would want to go BACK IN TIME, and kill Hitler before he can cause such atrocities. Else why would someone want to go back and kill someone they know nothing about?

ultimate777 · Post by **ultimate777** » Wed May 04, 2016 9:39 am

See uchronia.com for one.

ultimate777 · Post by **ultimate777** » Wed May 04, 2016 9:43 am

Or maybe I should put it this way:

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Re: Kill Hitler and go to Hell
Postby Philip » Wed May 04, 2016 11:28 am

But in the hypothetical, I think the assumption is that Hitler hadn't killed anyone yet.

And the hypothetical IS that ONLY one whom lives in the present, whom also knows what a monster he turned out to be, would want to go BACK IN TIME, and kill Hitler before he can cause such atrocities. Else why would someone want to go back and kill someone they know nothing about?

See uchronia.com

RickD · Post by **RickD** » Wed May 04, 2016 9:49 am

This thread has got me wonderin. If I call Doc Brown and Marty, maybe I can turn the hypothetical into reality.

But seriously, if we could go back in time and mess with history like that, there's a chance that we would not be born. For example, if my killing Hitler in any way affected my Grandparents' timing of conceiving my parents, then I'd never exist. And if I never exist, I can't go back in time. Then we have some kind of paradox, like when we try to divide by zero. The whole universe may get sucked into a giant black hole.

PaulSacramento · Post by **PaulSacramento** » Wed May 04, 2016 9:52 am

RickD wrote:This thread has got me wonderin. If I call Doc Brown and Marty, maybe I can turn the hypothetical into reality.

But seriously, if we could go back in time and mess with history like that, there's a chance that we would not be born. For example, if my killing Hitler in any way affected my Grandparents' timing of conceiving my parents, then I'd never exist. And if I never exist, I can't go back in time. Then we have some kind of paradox, like when we try to divide by zero. The whole universe may get sucked into a giant black hole.

The timeline paradox will not allow for the past to be changed.
One can not eliminate or change the very reason that one travels back in time.

RickD · Post by **RickD** » Wed May 04, 2016 9:58 am

PaulSacramento wrote:
RickD wrote:This thread has got me wonderin. If I call Doc Brown and Marty, maybe I can turn the hypothetical into reality.

But seriously, if we could go back in time and mess with history like that, there's a chance that we would not be born. For example, if my killing Hitler in any way affected my Grandparents' timing of conceiving my parents, then I'd never exist. And if I never exist, I can't go back in time. Then we have some kind of paradox, like when we try to divide by zero. The whole universe may get sucked into a giant black hole.
The timeline paradox will not allow for the past to be changed.
One can not eliminate or change the very reason that one travels back in time.

Not according to Back to the Future. Remember the picture of Marty's family disappearing?

PaulSacramento · Post by **PaulSacramento** » Wed May 04, 2016 10:22 am

RickD wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
RickD wrote:This thread has got me wonderin. If I call Doc Brown and Marty, maybe I can turn the hypothetical into reality.

But seriously, if we could go back in time and mess with history like that, there's a chance that we would not be born. For example, if my killing Hitler in any way affected my Grandparents' timing of conceiving my parents, then I'd never exist. And if I never exist, I can't go back in time. Then we have some kind of paradox, like when we try to divide by zero. The whole universe may get sucked into a giant black hole.
The timeline paradox will not allow for the past to be changed.
One can not eliminate or change the very reason that one travels back in time.
Not according to Back to the Future. Remember the picture of Marty's family disappearing?

The physicist in me was quite upset !