Evidence for God from Science

Growing up I heard comments about the end of the world frequently enough it kind of worried me. Every time a sonic boom rattled a building I was in, I'd run outside and look to see if clouds were coming down. Felt like I was always on edge because "it could come any day".

Then one day I was reading Billy Graham's column in the newspaper. A person asked about End Times. Graham replied "why worry about the end of the world, because when you die that is the end of the world for you."

His answer made so much sense even to a guy in his early teens. I never worried another minute about it since then.

JButler wrote:Growing up I heard comments about the end of the world frequently enough it kind of worried me. Every time a sonic boom rattled a building I was in, I'd run outside and look to see if clouds were coming down. Felt like I was always on edge because "it could come any day".

Then one day I was reading Billy Graham's column in the newspaper. A person asked about End Times. Graham replied "why worry about the end of the world, because when you die that is the end of the world for you."

His answer made so much sense even to a guy in his early teens. I never worried another minute about it since then.

We all have different callings as Christians but I am very interested in end time bible prophecy.I have been curious about it for as far back as I can remember.I have researched it,read all kinds of different prophecy books,I have even went to bible prophecy seminars.I used to have a friend and me and him used to get together and discuss and research bible prophecy and I actually learned more from that than any of the other things I did.I think that if we want to we can understand end-time bible prophecy,but it is just up to the person and if they are willing to put the amount of time into it.It requires alot of bible study,plus you need to know about history and even Geography.

There are alot of false prophets out there today and they tend to give bible prophecy a bad name.It makes it seem like nobody can really understand it.But you can,if you're willing to put the time into it. The problem that I see people making which I touch on alot when bible prophecy comes up is that they overlook prophecies that cannot be fulfilled until other prophecies are fulfilled.So many people make this mistake and it causes them to be wrong.We can understand end time bible prophecy if we don't make this mistake.

Like for instance we know that a jewish temple is going to be built in the future because the anti-christ goes into it and claims he is God. But before this can happen the jewish temple must be built. Therefore nobody should be claiming Jesus is coming soon until a jewish temple is built and it does not seem like its going to be built anytime soon. This is just one example.But people will overlook this prophecy and make it seem like Jesus is coming soon,get ready,etc and they end up being wrong. We cannot get out ahead of what God's word says is going to happen and God's timing but this is where so many get things wrong when it comes to end time bible prophecy.But we can still understand it,if we want to.

There are very few people that I trust when it comes to bible prophecy.Jesus told us to watch for signs and I think we should.

Billy Graham had Gospel problems on top of his eschatological problems.

He'd tell people to "turn from your sins" which is something no one can do, and if that's a requirement no one is saved. He is basically a Lordship Salvation guy.

I'm not a follower of Billy and I know he's got issues but that little bit of advice I remember. I used to get nervous flying on an airline watching the wings flop up/down, hearing new noises, etc. Finally I told myself if the plane is going down there is nothing I can do about it, so quit agonizing and relax.

Of course, airline travel in the last decade has become agonizing in other ways.

Seems like every era has its events that appear to indicate the end times are close. In the late 60's and well into the 70's there was a lot of people convinced we were close. At the time it really did look like it with the tremendous social upheaval, wars, Soviet Union, nuclear war threat and others. I remember it pretty well.

But back then we didn't have the massive attack on truth, freedom, Christianity, traditional values and elected officials who seem bent on destroying this country (and Europe) or islamic terror outside the Middle East. Today's condition is definitely well beyond the 60's problems and it does feel more like evil is rampant at a higher level. So it does seem to me the world conditions are more in line with what we're expecting for the end times. But its not a focal point of my life every day.

SoCalExile wrote:He'd tell people to "turn from your sins" which is something no one can do

With us such is impossible, but with God all things are possible.

Kurieuo wrote:

SoCalExile wrote:He'd tell people to "turn from your sins" which is something no one can do

With us such is impossible, but with God all things are possible.

So much for 1 John 1:8,10, Romans 3:23, 7:19, etc

It's not salvific, but certainly we can and should turn from sin as Paul often expressed e.g., Romans 6:1-7

When you use that phrase it tends to identify you with those that do use it as a condition of salvation.

SoCalExile wrote:When you use that phrase it tends to identify you with those that do use it as a condition of salvation.

Just bringing balance to your words, they felt to me too loose... like we may as well give into sin rather than turn from it. As we become more and more conformed to Christ, who knows what is possible.

JButler wrote:"why worry about the end of the world, because when you die that is the end of the world for you."

Basically paraphrased Augustine of Hippo's thought.

Kurieuo wrote:

SoCalExile wrote:When you use that phrase it tends to identify you with those that do use it as a condition of salvation.

Just bringing balance to your words, they felt to me too loose... like we may as well give into sin rather than turn from it. As we become more and more conformed to Christ, who knows what is possible.

That's a false dichotomy. There's no "balance" that we have to bring something to, there's God's word and what's in it.

And again, you can't "turn from sin" in this life, that phrase is to say that we can become sinless, i.e. follow the Law.

SoCalExile wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:

SoCalExile wrote:When you use that phrase it tends to identify you with those that do use it as a condition of salvation.

Just bringing balance to your words, they felt to me too loose... like we may as well give into sin rather than turn from it. As we become more and more conformed to Christ, who knows what is possible.

That's a false dichotomy. There's no "balance" that we have to bring something to, there's God's word and what's in it.

And again, you can't "turn from sin" in this life, that phrase is to say that we can become sinless, i.e. follow the Law.

Of course you can turn from sin.
Don't turn what may be true for salvation, into general rule across the board.

Think of practical situations in life. We do it all the time even if imperfectly so.
I've on many occasions stopped myself from doing wrong (sin), on account on my desire to be more in tune with God.
Are you saying my turning away from sin in such instances is delusional?

Yet it's not a phrase used in the bible.

Trying to be justified by your actions isn't about following the rules in general...you have to be perfect, James 2:10.

You guys are arguing semantics. Kurieuo is saying that as believers, we should choose not to sin. He's not saying we need to "turn from sin" to keep from losing salvation.

You both agree that "turning from sin" has no part in salvation.