Where does your faith come from?

[patrick]

I more or less consider myself Christian, but I don't have faith so much as hope.

Curious on people's sources of faith.

[Vergil]

In Christ alone my hope is found,
He is my light, my strength, my song;
this Cornerstone, this solid Ground,
firm through the fiercest drought and storm.
What heights of love, what depths of peace,
when fears are stilled, when strivings cease!
My Comforter, my All in All,
here in the love of Christ I stand.
- Owl City "In Christ Alone"

My Faith comes from in believing in Christ, in God, and in the Holy Spirit.
And in them, I can do all things.

[B. W.]

I more or less consider myself Christian, but I don't have faith so much as hope.

Curious on people's sources of faith.

How would you define faith?
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[Kurieuo]

Hope is good, keeps us going.

"Faith" is disparaged today, considered something religious, of little worth.
Yet, truth of the matter is we all live by faith day-in and day-out.

Do you have faith or hope in seeing the Sun rise again?
Where I am, it's night. I can't know with 100% certainty that the Sun will rise again.
Would I be epistimically justified in believing the Sun to rise again? Yes, I believe I would be and me justified to believe such; more justified with either withholding belief or believing it won't.

I don't believe we need absolute certainty to be justified in our knowledge.
To put another way, we don't need to know our knowledge is right in order to have true knowledge.
I won't know that my knowledge is right until I see the Sun rise again, well even then, I'll most likely just wake up to the Sun already in the sky rather than seeing it actually rise -- and I'll deduce that it rose based upon previous experiences of seeing the Sun rise at the crack of dawn.

Nonetheless, I believe that I'm justified in believing to Sun to rise again based upon my current knowledge and best determination. Likewise, I see belief in God as justified based upon my knowledge and best determination. From there, I scower around at claims of "God" being revealed in the world, and to my best determination land at Christ. Reason gets me here, I see my beliefs as justified in many ways, though the complete assurance is lacking right?

One of the biggest challenges to the world today is extreme skepticism.
No one wants to be gullible, to believe something and end up a deluded fool today.
Much better to withhold belief and be wrong, because then one isn't being gullible... or are they?
Always remember the sword does in fact cut both ways. Withholding belief, on the basis of not being convinced of evidence, is just as much a wrongful belief act as believing upon misleading evidence. Only one is often charged with being gullible, yet the other one might be choosing ignorance.

Yet, philosophical questions of knowledge aside such as how we can know? whether we can know? have justified belief? or the like... there is more to your question I'm sure. Namely, perhaps you do have belief (for how else could you have any hope), yet your belief feels lacking in strength, without a strong sense of assurance.

Perhaps what you question lacking belief on, it's more a strength of assurance that you lack? The good news is, belief is like a seed and grows. You may not have much now and I can tell that you're often torn with uncertainty, but if your belief has landed in fertile soil (which I equally sense it has) then it can grow.

Take it a step at a time. Keep looking to the One you hope in, who is Christ. We do not always see the complete picture. Often the next step is all that is clear to us, but once you step up, and take many steps, then look back... you'll gain perspective and see your own growth. Life can be tiring, but just living it, you'll have many steps to take. In a few years, you'll I'm sure be able to look back over your life and see the substance of your faith, those different steps you took, even smile at some.

[crochet1949]

I more or less consider myself Christian, but I don't have faith so much as hope.

Curious on people's sources of faith.

How would you define faith?
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My question would be -- on what basis do you consider yourself to Be Christian.

Romans 10:17 "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. "

vs 3 "by faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.
That entire chapter gives us examples of people practicing 'faith' -- vs 4, by faith Abel.... vs 5 "by faith Enoch -- vs 8 "by faith Abraham, etc.

In every day life, we All practice 'faith'. We place our faith in the electrician, plumber, car mechanic, by faith we turn on the light switch and have faith the light will go on. We do not First check to make sure all the proper inner connections are all in place / unless we are the person who built the house and Know all the connections are done correctly.

[B. W.]

I more or less consider myself Christian, but I don't have faith so much as hope.

Curious on people's sources of faith.

How would you define faith?

My question would be -- on what basis do you consider yourself to Be Christian.

Romans 10:17 "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. "

vs 3 "by faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.
That entire chapter gives us examples of people practicing 'faith' -- vs 4, by faith Abel.... vs 5 "by faith Enoch -- vs 8 "by faith Abraham, etc.

In every day life, we All practice 'faith'. We place our faith in the electrician, plumber, car mechanic, by faith we turn on the light switch and have faith the light will go on. We do not First check to make sure all the proper inner connections are all in place / unless we are the person who built the house and Know all the connections are done correctly.

You asked..."On what basis do you consider yourself to Be Christian?"

Answer: First - When he made realize that he came to save me when I deserved it not and (second) made very certain by personal involvement in my life knowing that he loves me enough to take me to God's woodshed for a few spankings and time outs as it is written:

"It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons." Heb 12:7-8 NASB
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[patrick]

I more or less consider myself Christian, but I don't have faith so much as hope.

Curious on people's sources of faith.

How would you define faith?
-
-
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Basically, that hope becomes faith when plausibility becomes probability.

I know a lot of people think "faith" implies something blind or willfully assumed despite evidence -- I don't. But I am talking specifically of faith in the ineffable -- of the nature of God and the divinity of Jesus. Of things that even the evidence for them, it's questionable it's really evidence of such. To use crochet's example, if you flip a light switch you know one way or another that either it can turn on a light or it can't. And since it doesn't just sometimes correspond with a light coming on, but always, it'd be pretty absurd to suggest the light just keeps happening to turn on. But there's no clear litmus test like that with the things I'm talking about.

My question would be -- on what basis do you consider yourself to Be Christian.

Not sure if this was meant towards me or BW, but I've sought explanations for subtle aspects of my inner experience and in coming upon Christianity I found it to be surprisingly plausible, to the point that I've begun study of scripture and occasionally even pray. What I mean is, even if it weren't true I'd still agree with a lot of its message -- it seems "right" to me.

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edited ~10minutes after original

[B. W.]

I more or less consider myself Christian, but I don't have faith so much as hope.

Curious on people's sources of faith.

How would you define faith?

Basically, that hope becomes faith when plausibility becomes probability.

I know a lot of people think "faith" implies something blind or willfully assumed despite evidence -- I don't.

But I am talking specifically of faith in the ineffable -- of the nature of God and the divinity of Jesus. Of things that even the evidence for them, it's questionable it's really evidence of such. To use crochet's example, if you flip a light switch you know one way or another that either it can turn on a light or it can't. And since it doesn't just sometimes correspond with a light coming on, but always, it'd be pretty absurd to suggest the light just keeps happening to turn on. But there's no clear litmus test like that with the things I'm talking about.

So what I am hearing you say is that your definition of faith is ineffable and thus cannot be defined clearly.

The concept of faith from the ancient Hebrew perspective of the Old Testament and New Testament era of Jesus and the apostles is not the same as in our current modern times.

The idea of faith back then was based upon attaching oneself to one who redeemed you, saved you, or in how one learned of the good reputation of a craftsman and then joins himself to him to learn the trade of the craftsman. Faith holds in its meaning the principle of a bond servant to carry out the will of God, one step at a time. Paul uses that phrases in his epistles.

Faith involves attaching oneself to one who frees you due to the act of the one setting you free. One's see the act - the redemption, that is not earned or deserved and then commit one's life to serve and learn from the one who set you free to learn their trade and carry on the will/work/trade of the one who set you free.

Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness. When he heard God and his promises he attached himself to follow God and obey. Despite Abraham's shortfalls and foibles, he learned from these that God is faithful to him and fully of true grace. Abraham attached himself and his family to God and went on a journey in life that reflected this attachment, no matter what. That is faith. In other words, God proved himself trustworthy and true and from this Abraham relied upon each step he took in mortal life.

In the modern church world, this type and kind of faith is not taught on much anymore. Faith is presented as the means to get one's gets from God, or that man's works and ideas are to be trusted more than God's works and words. Faith is reduced to a mental exercise and not as a way of life of commitment to the one who sets free. Faith also is seldom taught as a journey where one develops a personal relationship with God himself who trains and equips one to carry on the trade of the master craftsman, God: despite the bible's clear teaching that we are predestined to be conformed into his image of Jesus.

God proves himself faithful by attaching himself to mankind, by sharing in our own humanity. He paid the redemption price of death to set us free from servitude to the world system, sin, etc. The phrases Son of God and Son of Man both reflect how God, the living Word (second person of the Godhead Trinity), attached himself to humanity in order to save those who freely attach themselves to him. He paid the price of revealing human sin, and our wrath upon his own self in order to also take the wrath of God the Father of life in our place. - Note Philippians 2:5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13 -

God's wrath is often not understood or clearly seen how it operates. First God's wrath reveals why there is a need for such wrath which is due to forsaking God and choosing other god's such as the god of self or paganism (example Jer 16:12). His wrath begins with warnings to return. He reveals the nature of how folks abandon him and his guidance and the consequences. He exposes the slipperiness of those who attach themselves to the ways of dysfunctions as the means and purpose in life. In others words he makes it plain - that he will render to them what they sow. They abandoned him so he abandons them to their own devises.

God's wrath also sorts out the chaff from the wheat. Those that turn back to God receive grace and those that will not are fully exposed and set apart for the fury of God's just wrath consisting of utter total justified abandonment to one’s enemies. In the afterlife, it is further solidified by banishment to a place of one’s own making by reaping what one has sown, eternally. This principle is found in God's dealing with ancient Israel and those nations who forget God Who Is and sees and knows and takes account.

God's wrath grants warnings of its coming in signs, wonders, and word. If you again look at what Jesus went through, you begin to see how he was turned over to God's enemies and how he fully bore God's wrath to pay our death penalty. How He exposed the slipperiness that humanity uses to justify abandoning God and his ways. How in God's wrath, God calls out to return to him before it is too late. In fact, one sees the love of God seeking to regather a people back to himself justly: sorting out the wheat from the chaff. You see from the prospective of the cross (and Resurrection) of Jesus Christ the oneness of God Essence crying out in the full unity of His triune nature to escape the wrath to come. < aside - has our nation and the west being turned over to our own devises? Hosea 8:1,2,3,4 >

In this, we can trust in the Lord who is faithful - who attached himself to humanity - to cleanse us - give us another chance - who shows to what extremes that he will not abandon those who return to their senses by accepting His work to expose sin, and bear wrath on our behalf. Then by indwelling those who come to him to release them of the due of sin, of abandoning, betraying, mocking, of hubris, rejecting, slippery ways... after they see this in themselves by what he did to expose these things at work within us, enslaving us to do these things to others, our own selves, friends, strangers, and God himself. The world is a mess, isn't it? How it is always slippery justifying abandonment, rejection, betrayal, etc?

However, when one attaches his or her self to God. He attaches to them by indwelling them in order to teach them His ways, will, plans, purposes so we carry on his trade which is defined in Isaiah 61:1,2,3,4 during our mortal life's sojourn.

That is faith: faith attaching oneself to follow one who sets you free by proof of an act of love so profound that I cannot fully comprehend why he would even bother with saving the wretches we are.

Another point often missed in the OT is how the prophets bore the wrath of man in order to expose the nature of sin that God sent them to warn people about. In this light Hebrews 11:32-40 makes more sense.

Biblical faith is not about intellectual assenting in agreement, rather it is a relational attaching one's self to the one sent to rescue you, Jesus Christ.

Sadly, for much of modern Christendom, this truth is not spoken much anymore or taught and the fruit of it is clearly seen...

My question would be -- on what basis do you consider yourself to Be Christian.

Not sure if this was meant towards me or BW, but I've sought explanations for subtle aspects of my inner experience and in coming upon Christianity I found it to be surprisingly plausible, to the point that I've begun study of scripture and occasionally even pray. What I mean is, even if it weren't true I'd still agree with a lot of its message -- it seems "right" to me.

Philippians 1:6, For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect (complete) it until the day of Christ Jesus... NASB

1 Corinthians 1:9, God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord... NASB
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[Vergil]

I more or less consider myself Christian, but I don't have faith so much as hope.

Curious on people's sources of faith.

How would you define faith?

Basically, that hope becomes faith when plausibility becomes probability.

I know a lot of people think "faith" implies something blind or willfully assumed despite evidence -- I don't.

But I am talking specifically of faith in the ineffable -- of the nature of God and the divinity of Jesus. Of things that even the evidence for them, it's questionable it's really evidence of such. To use crochet's example, if you flip a light switch you know one way or another that either it can turn on a light or it can't. And since it doesn't just sometimes correspond with a light coming on, but always, it'd be pretty absurd to suggest the light just keeps happening to turn on. But there's no clear litmus test like that with the things I'm talking about.

So what I am hearing you say is that your definition of faith is ineffable and thus cannot be defined clearly.

The concept of faith from the ancient Hebrew perspective of the Old Testament and New Testament era of Jesus and the apostles is not the same as in our current modern times.

The idea of faith back then was based upon attaching oneself to one who redeemed you, saved you, or in how one learned of the good reputation of a craftsman and then joins himself to him to learn the trade of the craftsman. Faith holds in its meaning the principle of a bond servant to carry out the will of God, one step at a time. Paul uses that phrases in his epistles.

Faith involves attaching oneself to one who frees you due to the act of the one setting you free. One's see the act - the redemption, that is not earned or deserved and then commit one's life to serve and learn from the one who set you free to learn their trade and carry on the will/work/trade of the one who set you free.

Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness. When he heard God and his promises he attached himself to follow God and obey. Despite Abraham's shortfalls and foibles, he learned from these that God is faithful to him and fully of true grace. Abraham attached himself and his family to God and went on a journey in life that reflected this attachment, no matter what. That is faith. In other words, God proved himself trustworthy and true and from this Abraham relied upon each step he took in mortal life.

In the modern church world, this type and kind of faith is not taught on much anymore. Faith is presented as the means to get one's gets from God, or that man's works and ideas are to be trusted more than God's works and words. Faith is reduced to a mental exercise and not as a way of life of commitment to the one who sets free. Faith also is seldom taught as a journey where one develops a personal relationship with God himself who trains and equips one to carry on the trade of the master craftsman, God: despite the bible's clear teaching that we are predestined to be conformed into his image of Jesus.

God proves himself faithful by attaching himself to mankind, by sharing in our own humanity. He paid the redemption price of death to set us free from servitude to the world system, sin, etc. The phrases Son of God and Son of Man both reflect how God, the living Word (second person of the Godhead Trinity), attached himself to humanity in order to save those who freely attach themselves to him. He paid the price of revealing human sin, and our wrath upon his own self in order to also take the wrath of God the Father of life in our place. - Note Philippians 2:5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13 -

God's wrath is often not understood or clearly seen how it operates. First God's wrath reveals why there is a need for such wrath which is due to forsaking God and choosing other god's such as the god of self or paganism (example Jer 16:12). His wrath begins with warnings to return. He reveals the nature of how folks abandon him and his guidance and the consequences. He exposes the slipperiness of those who attach themselves to the ways of dysfunctions as the means and purpose in life. In others words he makes it plain - that he will render to them what they sow. They abandoned him so he abandons them to their own devises.

God's wrath also sorts out the chaff from the wheat. Those that turn back to God receive grace and those that will not are fully exposed and set apart for the fury of God's just wrath consisting of utter total justified abandonment to one’s enemies. In the afterlife, it is further solidified by banishment to a place of one’s own making by reaping what one has sown, eternally. This principle is found in God's dealing with ancient Israel and those nations who forget God Who Is and sees and knows and takes account.

God's wrath grants warnings of its coming in signs, wonders, and word. If you again look at what Jesus went through, you begin to see how he was turned over to God's enemies and how he fully bore God's wrath to pay our death penalty. How He exposed the slipperiness that humanity uses to justify abandoning God and his ways. How in God's wrath, God calls out to return to him before it is too late. In fact, one sees the love of God seeking to regather a people back to himself justly: sorting out the wheat from the chaff. You see from the prospective of the cross (and Resurrection) of Jesus Christ the oneness of God Essence crying out in the full unity of His triune nature to escape the wrath to come. < aside - has our nation and the west being turned over to our own devises? Hosea 8:1,2,3,4 >

In this, we can trust in the Lord who is faithful - who attached himself to humanity - to cleanse us - give us another chance - who shows to what extremes that he will not abandon those who return to their senses by accepting His work to expose sin, and bear wrath on our behalf. Then by indwelling those who come to him to release them of the due of sin, of abandoning, betraying, mocking, of hubris, rejecting, slippery ways... after they see this in themselves by what he did to expose these things at work within us, enslaving us to do these things to others, our own selves, friends, strangers, and God himself. The world is a mess, isn't it? How it is always slippery justifying abandonment, rejection, betrayal, etc?

However, when one attaches his or her self to God. He attaches to them by indwelling them in order to teach them His ways, will, plans, purposes so we carry on his trade which is defined in Isaiah 61:1,2,3,4 during our mortal life's sojourn.

That is faith: faith attaching oneself to follow one who sets you free by proof of an act of love so profound that I cannot fully comprehend why he would even bother with saving the wretches we are.

Another point often missed in the OT is how the prophets bore the wrath of man in order to expose the nature of sin that God sent them to warn people about. In this light Hebrews 11:32-40 makes more sense.

Biblical faith is not about intellectual assenting in agreement, rather it is a relational attaching one's self to the one sent to rescue you, Jesus Christ.

Sadly, for much of modern Christendom, this truth is not spoken much anymore or taught and the fruit of it is clearly seen...

My question would be -- on what basis do you consider yourself to Be Christian.

Not sure if this was meant towards me or BW, but I've sought explanations for subtle aspects of my inner experience and in coming upon Christianity I found it to be surprisingly plausible, to the point that I've begun study of scripture and occasionally even pray. What I mean is, even if it weren't true I'd still agree with a lot of its message -- it seems "right" to me.

Philippians 1:6, For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect (complete) it until the day of Christ Jesus... NASB

1 Corinthians 1:9, God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord... NASB
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Aye brother, we need to have Faith in Christ and in God

[Philip]

The FAITH comes from the individual Believer! The ABILITY to have that faith, the FREE CHOICE to exercise that faith, and the glorious way in which our faith is applied, and what made every bit of it POSSIBLE, every step of the way, ALL comes from God! And yet, God's salvation, which was made FREE, unearnable, and so beautifully amazing, and at such a horrific cost (the Crucifixion!) - especially given who we are as sinful people before a perfect and Holy God - can nonetheless be rejected, avoided and refused. The choice was given to us and made possible by God - so it must be OUR faith exercised through these things which He made possible - both the choice and a glorious eternity with Him, with but ONE condition: FAITH in Jesus!

[crochet1949]

Without God's Word we have none of that --Faith.
Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by grace you have been saved through Faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God. not of works, lest anyone should boast."

Romans 5:1 -- Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God."
10:17 "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
"The Faith .... All comes from God"

God is the Only One who knows who will accept or reject His salvation. Like-wise God gives us the freedom of choice in what we do every day.

[Philip]

Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by grace you have been saved through Faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God. not of works, lest anyone should boast."

Let's be clear: The "gift" of God is NOT our faith - OTHERWISE, the reason men reject Him would not merely be of their own decision and hard, permanently resistant heart, but because He would not have given them the "gift of FAITH." What is "not of ourselves" is SALVATION - so that the GIFT of SALVATION is GIVEN ONLY and made POSSIBLE ONLY "by God's grace." And although the gift/salvation is OFFERED to all, ALL must STILL RECEIVE it! But HOW? - "THROUGH FAITH!" Of course, even our ABILITY to have faith, IF we ever come to desire it, would not be possible without God's wooing hearts and enlightening THOSE SO WILLING, who will not permanently reject His overtures - which mankind overwhelmingly does. There is no contradiction: The GIFT is salvation! But also, ONLY, God is how and by Whom it was made possible. Of course, the ABILITY to choose and the choices were also given by God. But the DECISION of what to do with this Gift of Christ's applied death, though OFFERED to us and entirely of God's creation and grace, that decision is entirely ours.

Just to add: The rejection of Christ and His Gospel can and often does begin and even END before many hear of Jesus - the OLD Testament prolifically documents this. So, one can reject merely what God has ALREADY revealed of Himself to people - to a point where God has "decided" (remember, He's FOREVER known our choices and eternal fates) that the Gospel and knowledge of Jesus would not profit them - as it would just reveal further rejection. But WE can't always know how this works, nor all that goes into how God deals with people He's not provided the Gospel. We just must have faith that God's decisions are ALWAYS perfect and that He will only ever reject a person that has permanently rejected Him - and thus ONLY He can know who those people are. He also knows whom He might reach in a non-traditional manner (through dreams, miraculous means, or even at the cusp of (but before) death - perhaps, in ways which we do not see. But such people are God's decisions. I just must trust that He knows what is best and that He will always do that. I only post this as many don't realize that God can be rejected without the further knowledge that Jesus is also God.

[Mallz]

I more or less consider myself Christian, but I don't have faith so much as hope.

Curious on people's sources of faith.

1 Thessalonians 5:16
Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. 19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not despise prophecies, 21 but test everything; hold fast what is good. 22 Abstain from every form of evil.

My faith is produced from experience, testing what He says and seeing that it is true. If you believe in Him, and what He says, and act on His promises, and see Him act around you... well, that is my building living faith. It is as undeniable to me as I know the sun will rise every day and set every night. But would never exist if I didn't have a relationship with Him. How could someone expect communication from someone they either don't believe exist, or exist in a real relation to you? You have hope because you see His promises, and His character from what has been recorded by us about Him. Do you have relationships? Do you have differing faiths within those relationships? Do you have one with someone where you know their will without them saying; could complete their sentence for them? This is faith, and faith in/with Him. It is to be exercised or will never be; and He tells us how to obtain it.