Christianity Today on Trump

[edwardmurphy]

I'm wondering what people think about this article. Is Christianity Today a respected publication?

This paragraph stood out for me:

Enthusiasm for a candidate like Trump gives our neighbors ample reason to doubt that we believe Jesus is Lord. They see that some of us are so self-interested, and so self-protective, that we will ally ourselves with someone who violates all that is sacred to us—in hope, almost certainly a vain hope given his mendacity and record of betrayal, that his rule will save us.

I've definitely had that thought a time or two, usually paired with the thought that some folks around here are really high strung about this stuff when it seems like they should be serene in the knowledge of their salvation.

[DBowling]

I'm wondering what people think about this article. Is Christianity Today a respected publication?

I was raised in a house that had a subscription to Christianity Today, and even though I haven't had a subscription of my own in a number of years, I still think it is an excellent magazine.

I also agree 1000% with the article you linked to.

The two paragraphs that immediately preceded the paragraph you quoted made me go "WOAH!!!"

Most Christians who support Trump have done so with reluctant strategic calculation, largely based on the president’s power to appoint members of the Supreme Court. Important issues are indeed at stake, including the right of Christians and adherents of other religions to uphold their vision of sexual integrity and marriage even if they are in the cultural minority.

But there is a point at which strategy becomes its own form of idolatry—an attempt to manipulate the levers of history in favor of the causes we support. Strategy becomes idolatry, for ancient Israel and for us today, when we make alliances with those who seem to offer strength—the chariots of Egypt, the vassal kings of Rome—at the expense of our dependence on God who judges all nations, and in defiance of God’s manifest concern for the stranger, the widow, the orphan, and the oppressed. Strategy becomes idolatry when we betray our deepest values in pursuit of earthly influence. And because such strategy requires capitulating to idols and princes and denying the true God, it ultimately always fails.

[Kurieuo]

I'm wondering what people think about this article. Is Christianity Today a respected publication?

This paragraph stood out for me:

Enthusiasm for a candidate like Trump gives our neighbors ample reason to doubt that we believe Jesus is Lord. They see that some of us are so self-interested, and so self-protective, that we will ally ourselves with someone who violates all that is sacred to us—in hope, almost certainly a vain hope given his mendacity and record of betrayal, that his rule will save us.

I've definitely had that thought a time or two, usually paired with the thought that some folks around here are really high strung about this stuff when it seems like they should be serene in the knowledge of their salvation.

Many hail Trump as an American Messiah who'll free the US from the grip the tyranny, that he'll judge and put the whole establishment on trial, restore America. I'm sure there will be positive things done, with the backing he's got. I'd have much less confidence in Trump, if he didn't have the likes of Pence beside him -- and perhaps that's a main reason Trump chose him as his running mate because he knows he has a trust issue.

Nonetheless, no matter the media, they can't be trusted. They're opinion pieces, and one should always look for signs cross-stream rather than fully downstream with any one source or group of like-minded sources.

To respond to how we as Christians should be "serene in the knowledge of salvation", Christian living isn't about about being serene, although many sell such a message i.e., "Give your life to Christ, and he'll take way all your problems." Placing one's life in Christ's hands comes with greater expectation and responsibility by God: to love God and love others. Do we really give our life to Christ and as such God, or don't we?

Instead, we are promised trials and even tribulation (James 1:2-18):

• 2 Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, 3 for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. 4 And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.
  5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For that person must not suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.
  9 Let the lowly brother boast in his exaltation, 10 and the rich in his humiliation, because like a flower of the grass he will pass away. 11 For the sun rises with its scorching heat and withers the grass; its flower falls, and its beauty perishes. So also will the rich man fade away in the midst of his pursuits.
  12 Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him. 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. 14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and ysin when it is fully grown brings forth death.
  16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change. 18 Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Yet, despite such tests, Romans 8:28 says:

• And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

[RickD]

From the article:

Enthusiasm for a candidate like Trump gives our neighbors ample reason to doubt that we believe Jesus is Lord. They see that some of us are so self-interested, and so self-protective, that we will ally ourselves with someone who violates all that is sacred to us—in hope, almost certainly a vain hope given his mendacity and record of betrayal, that his rule will save us.

This reminds me of something I heard today. Dennis Prager mentioned how the US, in WW2, became allies with Stalin, to defeat the spread of Nazi Germany. The US found it morally acceptable to become allies with possibly the most evil man who ever lived, in order to stop the spread of something that would not only have affected the US, but also the rest of the world.

If we as a nation, found it morally acceptable to ally ourselves with Stalin, then we surely can make a moral argument to ally ourselves with Trump, to defeat Clinton.

And no, I'm not comparing Trump to Stalin, nor Clinton to Hitler.

[Kurieuo]

And no, I'm not comparing Trump to Stalin, nor Clinton to Hitler.

Err, yes you did, well on Stalin.

[RickD]

And no, I'm not comparing Trump to Stalin, nor Clinton to Hitler.

Err, yes you did, well on Stalin.

No. I knew someone would get that, from what I wrote.

My point was that we as Christians, can make a moral argument to ally ourselves with someone we really disagree with, in order to fight against a greater evil.

If I'm comparing anything, it would be Nazism and Liberalism.

[JButler]

And no, I'm not comparing Trump to Stalin, nor Clinton to Hitler.

Err, yes you did, well on Stalin.

No. I knew someone would get that, from what I wrote.

My point was that we as Christians, can make a moral argument to ally ourselves with someone we really disagree with, in order to fight against a greater evil.

If I'm comparing anything, it would be Nazism and Liberalism.

Good point. How many times in the history of the USA have Christians been in this situation? I'd have to think deeply but a few come to mind.

Also, keep in mind that years ago the public had zero idea what a candidate was really like.

[PaulSacramento]

Interesting article.
Of course it needs to also address that Clinton is no better and, perhaps, far worse, so in reality what the article should point out is that a Christians should, as a form of protest, NEVER vote for ANY candidate that is not a moral and ethical person and that is NOT on the side of Christ.
Which would mean that Christians would probably never vote, and some do NOT just for this reason.

[RickD]

Interesting article.
Of course it needs to also address that Clinton is no better and, perhaps, far worse, so in reality what the article should point out is that a Christians should, as a form of protest, NEVER vote for ANY candidate that is not a moral and ethical person and that is NOT on the side of Christ.
Which would mean that Christians would probably never vote, and some do NOT just for this reason.

What exactly is a "moral and ethical person"?

Someone who looks good on the outside?

[PaulSacramento]

Interesting article.
Of course it needs to also address that Clinton is no better and, perhaps, far worse, so in reality what the article should point out is that a Christians should, as a form of protest, NEVER vote for ANY candidate that is not a moral and ethical person and that is NOT on the side of Christ.
Which would mean that Christians would probably never vote, and some do NOT just for this reason.

What exactly is a "moral and ethical person"?

Someone who looks good on the outside?

Looks have nothing to do with being a Moral person, not sure what you are asking...

[DBowling]

Interesting article.
Of course it needs to also address that Clinton is no better and, perhaps, far worse, so in reality what the article should point out is that a Christians should, as a form of protest, NEVER vote for ANY candidate that is not a moral and ethical person and that is NOT on the side of Christ.
Which would mean that Christians would probably never vote, and some do NOT just for this reason.

BTW... The first part of the article did focus on Clinton's many flaws as well as structural problems for Christians within the Democratic platform.

I think the final paragraph of the article contains sound advice for Christians who are trying to determine what to do in this very difficult election.

The US political system has never been free of idolatry, and politics always requires compromise. Our country is flawed, but it is also resilient. And God is not only just, but also merciful, as he judges the nations. In these closing weeks before the election, all American Christians should repent, fast, and pray—no matter how we vote. And we should hold on to hope—not in a candidate, but in our Lord Jesus. We do not serve idols. We serve the living God. Even now he is ready to have mercy, on us and on all who are afraid. May his name be hallowed, his kingdom come, and his will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.

[Philip]

Many hail Trump as an American Messiah who'll free the US from the grip the tyranny, that he'll judge and put the whole establishment on trial, restore America.

Yes, scary that people think like that. The root of America's (and the world's) problems are not political - they're spiritual!

But, just because I have moral concerns about both candidates, I still see enough differences that I judge Trump to be considerably less dangerous- although I could be wrong. But as we only have narrow choices, I don't expect to only have Christians of high morals running. I must choose a horse amongst the ones available - even if the choices are very unappealing. But for the masses unwilling to choose ANYONE at all - well, that could be even more dangerous. People only willing to vote if they can find a perfectly satisfiable candidate - well, they don't live in the real world! It's okay to vote for a a very flawed candidate, as you have NO better option, and yet nonetheless still severely criticize him for his failings. EVERY candidate needs their feet held to the ethical fire for their stupid actions. Trump is NO exception!

[PaulSacramento]

Interesting article.
Of course it needs to also address that Clinton is no better and, perhaps, far worse, so in reality what the article should point out is that a Christians should, as a form of protest, NEVER vote for ANY candidate that is not a moral and ethical person and that is NOT on the side of Christ.
Which would mean that Christians would probably never vote, and some do NOT just for this reason.

BTW... The first part of the article did focus on Clinton's many flaws as well as structural problems for Christians within the Democratic platform.

I think the final paragraph of the article contains sound advice for Christians who are trying to determine what to do in this very difficult election.

The US political system has never been free of idolatry, and politics always requires compromise. Our country is flawed, but it is also resilient. And God is not only just, but also merciful, as he judges the nations. In these closing weeks before the election, all American Christians should repent, fast, and pray—no matter how we vote. And we should hold on to hope—not in a candidate, but in our Lord Jesus. We do not serve idols. We serve the living God. Even now he is ready to have mercy, on us and on all who are afraid. May his name be hallowed, his kingdom come, and his will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.

Indeed it does, I should have worded that better, sorry.
I should have been clear that the article should have stated that Hillary is immoral too.

[Kurieuo]

Sometimes I have hope God will let me know what colour socks to wear, but then I end up having to use my own initiative and decide. Voting for one or the other can make a big difference, not just in laws passed but actions around the world. God will continue being God, but that final paragraph sounds deeply naive. I agree with Ricks sentiments and think the decision is quite clear personally.

[edwardmurphy]

I should have been clear that the article should have stated that Hillary is immoral too.

Most self-identified Evangelicals already think that. The author's goal wasn't to preach to the choir, it was to challenge them on their overwhelming support of Donald Trump.