Evidence for God from Science

We had some fairly serious misbehaviour from our boys last week, involving lying, among other things - it was mainly the older one, who's usually the less mischievous of the two. It was made worse for me by the fact that it affected one of our neighbours down the street (someone I hadn't met before myself) and she was giving me a hard time about it Hubby's taken it badly - I ended up telling him that it's normal for kids to do bad things sometimes but usually they get disciplined appropriately and so usually they turn out ok. He'd certainly come up with some heavy discipline for our two. I'm hoping for some reassurance, I suppose - do you have kids who did some awful things (or often did mildly bad things) and have grown into responsible and even God-fearing adults?

Nicki wrote:We had some fairly serious misbehaviour from our boys last week, involving lying, among other things - it was mainly the older one, who's usually the less mischievous of the two. It was made worse for me by the fact that it affected one of our neighbours down the street (someone I hadn't met before myself) and she was giving me a hard time about it Hubby's taken it badly - I ended up telling him that it's normal for kids to do bad things sometimes but usually they get disciplined appropriately and so usually they turn out ok. He'd certainly come up with some heavy discipline for our two. I'm hoping for some reassurance, I suppose - do you have kids who did some awful things (or often did mildly bad things) and have grown into responsible and even God-fearing adults?

How old? My 7 yo son lied and let his little brother (Micah) take the blame. I told Micah to next time tell me, he said he didn't do it, but I pressed him and then he ended up saying "ok daddy." All that in front of eldest. I'd suspected oldest son, but wifey said no, he pointed it out so wouldn't be him. Then I mentioned something that didn't add up, and wifey clued in a bit more and it ended up being eldest. Well, I saw red. He was punished and I apologised to Micah. Still annoys me thinking about it. How horrible is that? I know he felt horrible, when I went in 10 minutes later after cooling down, I could hear oldest sobbing silently. He felt bad, because he knows what it's like to be accused of and have noone believe him. I drilled that well and truly home to him. He won't do that again, well perhaps not for a year.

Kids will lie, adults lie, we've all lied. Without knowing the details, it's in your court, but it's not the end of the world and you're not bad parents. He needs equally know he come to you when in trouble, or done something wrong, while at the same time knowing lying to you was an abhorrible thing to do. As for your neighbor, I'd ask them if they've never lied? Pfft. Adding insult does nothing to help matters, so ignore their righteous indignation. I think it's alright to always be on your son's side, stick up for him, but at the same time discipline and let him experience the consequences of his actions. It is important I think to ask him how he feels, why he felt the need to lie, not tell you and the like -- lead them through it. Of course, I'm speaking of young children, and not teenagers or the like.

Nessa,

I used to lie quite a bit as a child(and teenager). So, if you don't want your kids to turn out like me, you had better do something about it soon.

RickD wrote:Nessa,

I used to lie quite a bit as a child(and teenager). So, if you don't want your kids to turn out like me, you had better do something about it soon.

Are you joking cos I got a 'micah' as well?

Or freudiant slip

Nessa wrote:

RickD wrote:Nessa,

I used to lie quite a bit as a child(and teenager). So, if you don't want your kids to turn out like me, you had better do something about it soon.

Are you joking cos I got a 'micah' as well?

Sorry, my mistake. I was responding to Nicki. You Aussies all look the same to me.

RickD wrote:

Nessa wrote:

RickD wrote:Nessa,

I used to lie quite a bit as a child(and teenager). So, if you don't want your kids to turn out like me, you had better do something about it soon.

Are you joking cos I got a 'micah' as well?

Sorry, my mistake. I was responding to Nicki. You Aussies all look the same to me.

I feel you, you Canadians all look the same too.

Kurieuo wrote:

RickD wrote:

Nessa wrote:

RickD wrote:Nessa,

I used to lie quite a bit as a child(and teenager). So, if you don't want your kids to turn out like me, you had better do something about it soon.

Are you joking cos I got a 'micah' as well?

Sorry, my mistake. I was responding to Nicki. You Aussies all look the same to me.

I feel you, you Canadians all look the same too.

That's not true. Americans are fat and lazy. Canadians all look like Justin Bieber and Celine Dion.

Kurieuo wrote:

RickD wrote:

Nessa wrote:

RickD wrote:Nessa,

I used to lie quite a bit as a child(and teenager). So, if you don't want your kids to turn out like me, you had better do something about it soon.

Are you joking cos I got a 'micah' as well?

Sorry, my mistake. I was responding to Nicki. You Aussies all look the same to me.

I feel you, you Canadians all look the same too.

Perfect comeback

Kurieuo wrote:

Nicki wrote:We had some fairly serious misbehaviour from our boys last week, involving lying, among other things - it was mainly the older one, who's usually the less mischievous of the two. It was made worse for me by the fact that it affected one of our neighbours down the street (someone I hadn't met before myself) and she was giving me a hard time about it Hubby's taken it badly - I ended up telling him that it's normal for kids to do bad things sometimes but usually they get disciplined appropriately and so usually they turn out ok. He'd certainly come up with some heavy discipline for our two. I'm hoping for some reassurance, I suppose - do you have kids who did some awful things (or often did mildly bad things) and have grown into responsible and even God-fearing adults?

How old? My 7 yo son lied and let his little brother (Micah) take the blame. I told Micah to next time tell me, he said he didn't do it, but I pressed him and then he ended up saying "ok daddy." All that in front of eldest. I'd suspected oldest son, but wifey said no, he pointed it out so wouldn't be him. Then I mentioned something that didn't add up, and wifey clued in a bit more and it ended up being eldest. Well, I saw red. He was punished and I apologised to Micah. Still annoys me thinking about it. How horrible is that? I know he felt horrible, when I went in 10 minutes later after cooling down, I could hear oldest sobbing silently. He felt bad, because he knows what it's like to be accused of and have noone believe him. I drilled that well and truly home to him. He won't do that again, well perhaps not for a year.

Kids will lie, adults lie, we've all lied. Without knowing the details, it's in your court, but it's not the end of the world and you're not bad parents. He needs equally know he come to you when in trouble, or done something wrong, while at the same time knowing lying to you was an abhorrible thing to do. As for your neighbor, I'd ask them if they've never lied? Pfft. Adding insult does nothing to help matters, so ignore their righteous indignation. I think it's alright to always be on your son's side, stick up for him, but at the same time discipline and let him experience the consequences of his actions. It is important I think to ask him how he feels, why he felt the need to lie, not tell you and the like -- lead them through it. Of course, I'm speaking of young children, and not teenagers or the like.

Thanks... they're 8 and 10 years old. It wasn't the lying the neighbour was angry about (the lying was to us when we asked them what they'd done); they had been friends with the neighbour's daughter but there was some argument between them, and the mother came to our door and said our boys were being rude to and swearing at her daughter and she didn't want them playing with her; then my older son decided to dress up in raincoat (it was raining so I didn't think anything of that) and dark safety glasses, go down with one of their other friends and knock on their door and run away a few times, and he got caught on their security cameras. The mother rang me up (I guess she just got our number out of the phone book) and told me about this and said he had a spanner in his hand as well - she said she'd go to the police if there was any damage to their car. Also repeated that they were rude and nasty - not really a nice thing to hear.

I went and asked the kids about it (I wasn't sure which one it was supposed to be) and they said, "No way - we were just playing around with our scooters on the corners down there" - a couple of houses away from that house. I told hubby when he got home and he went straight down to the house, saw the security film and confirmed it was him, and his opinion was he did have a small spanner - son's story was that it was just his glove. So I don't know, but apparently he didn't do any damage. Husband decided they would not be able to use their tablet, the computer or my phone for entertainment purposes for the rest of the year, and also they can't go down the street - only straight out the front and to their other friends' two houses which are close across the road. We went to the local show on Saturday and they weren't allowed to get showbags - instead we got one for the girl down the road, which apparently went down well when they gave it to her. Hubby thought they should get no Christmas presents as well, or only one - I thought that was going a bit far though when the younger one didn't even do anything except join in with telling us the older one hadn't been down there.

The girl's been been hanging out in front of our house again this week and talking to our two, which kind of annoyed me - I thought, what a waste of time all that was if they're friends again! I said to Mr 8, "I thought she was not supposed to be playing with you?" and he said something like, "Oh, she's just coming down here sometimes" - maybe she's just not allowed to come inside.

Three issues obviously, first, the cursing and behaviour. Second, door knocking, sounds like they were just having a laugh (to your neighbor's evident displeasure). Third, lying to you guys about it.

It's easier to say stuff, then enact. I get mad at wifey when she says no games and stuff for a week, because that hurts us also, if for example we want to play games or have them out of our hair for a bit. So we find it difficult to enforce such.

But, with the first of "teasing" (?) the girl, showbag seems to fit that. Then your neighbour, since she's concerned about her car, maybe if she's willing, your boys can wash it several times for them. Seems a natural punishment.

As for lying, in addition to a good talking to why they lied and talking through until it sinks in such is wrong, not to mention the practicalities of you can't help them if they lie to you. A year seems like it'd be hard to enforce, and what if you catch them again? What then? Christmas presents also seems extreme, too far removed from the crime.

I'm just adding my input since it was asked, but your husband should make the final decision. If you have some concerns over the degree of punishment, talk it through with your him. At the end of the day you both will be responsible for enforcing the punishment so it needs to be fair also on both of you.

Finally, something I heard not long ago surrounded the following passage:

• "Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them." (Proverbs 13:24)

Discipline is primarily about guiding, not necessarily punishing. The rod here, is the one a shepherd uses to guide and protect his flock. Severe punishment might only harden your boys further, and not make them realise their wrong. Long-lasting punishment I find doesn't work on my eldest. He kind of just resigns himself to being bad, because what's the point, he's already been severely punished? Kind of digs in and hardens. Each of my children works and responds differently though.

I'm often more concerned about getting them to see how deplorable their actions were, rather than simply thinking of a good punishment. Easier said, than accomplished, but you sound like good parents -- I'm sure you'll work out something.

Kurieuo wrote:Three issues obviously, first, the cursing and behaviour. Second, door knocking, sounds like they were just having a laugh (to your neighbor's evident displeasure). Third, lying to you guys about it.

It's easier to say stuff, then enact. I get mad at wifey when she says no games and stuff for a week, because that hurts us also, if for example we want to play games or have them out of our hair for a bit. So we find it difficult to enforce such.

But, with the first of "teasing" (?) the girl, showbag seems to fit that. Then your neighbour, since she's concerned about her car, maybe if she's willing, your boys can wash it several times for them. Seems a natural punishment.

As for lying, in addition to a good talking to why they lied and talking through until it sinks in such is wrong, not to mention the practicalities of you can't help them if they lie to you. A year seems like it'd be hard to enforce, and what if you catch them again? What then? Christmas presents also seems extreme, too far removed from the crime.

I'm just adding my input since it was asked, but your husband should make the final decision. If you have some concerns over the degree of punishment, talk it through with your him. At the end of the day you both will be responsible for enforcing the punishment so it needs to be fair also on both of you.

Finally, something I heard not long ago surrounded the following passage:

• "Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them." (Proverbs 13:24)

Discipline is primarily about guiding, not necessarily punishing. The rod here, is the one a shepherd uses to guide and protect his flock. Severe punishment might only harden your boys further, and not make them realise their wrong. Long-lasting punishment I find doesn't work on my eldest. He kind of just resigns himself to being bad, because what's the point, he's already been severely punished? Kind of digs in and hardens. Each of my children works and responds differently though.

I'm often more concerned about getting them to see how deplorable their actions were, rather than simply thinking of a good punishment. Easier said, than accomplished, but you sound like good parents -- I'm sure you'll work out something.

Thanks again - I'd forgotten for the moment how they were both apparently rude to their friend, but the older one was more at fault than the younger so I'm thinking he should have more consequences. Hubby tends to 'tar them both with the same brush' - he sometimes says 'you're both as bad as each other' even though they don't necessarily do exactly the same things. I'd also forgotten he said they can't have pocket money for the rest of the year. That and the games thing are only till the end of this year, which there isn't much left of really. It's not too bad because they like playing with their friends anyway (scooters, Pokémon and so on), and their dad told them to ask me for a job to do if they're bored, or help me with my daycare kids or read a book. They can still watch TV as well. I think I will talk to him about less severe consequences for the younger one and hopefully they'll behave themselves for the rest of the year and be allowed Christmas presents!

Tell them Santa will give them coal in their stockings if they don't stop.


But seriously, find a way to nip the lying in the bud.

RickD wrote:Tell them Santa will give them coal in their stockings if they don't stop.


But seriously, find a way to nip the lying in the bud.

Thanks - we have definitely lectured them about it. My line - 'you can't trust someone when they keep lying.' I think it's natural for kids sometimes though when they don't want to get in trouble - natural but not good.

Off topic but fits nevertheless Rick's photo...