Evidence for God from Science

It's sad to see fruitcakes have taken root in New Zealand too.

They are called NATURAL disasters and they are actually only called disasters when they cause loss of life.
No one calls an earthquake in the middle of nowhere anything but an earthquake.

If humans hadn't sinned there would be no disasters, natural or otherwise.

For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
(Romans 8:19-21 ESV)

theophilus wrote:If humans hadn't sinned there would be no disasters, natural or otherwise.

For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
(Romans 8:19-21 ESV)

Nothing but YEC eisegesis. Nothing in those verses says why creation was subjected to futility.

There are no such things as natural "disasters" only naturally occurring events that MAY lead to what we call a disaster.
Like I said before, does anyone call an earthquake in the middle of nowhere that kills no one a disaster?
Hurricanes, eruptions, earthquakes and such are ALL part of nature's process.
It falls on US to learn to adapt to THEM.

I think your question presupposes the answer i.e., "natural" disasters are "naturally" caused. God still keeps the world running and doesn't put it on hold, even if such will disrupt or take physical human life. That's part and parcel with the temporary world He's created for us here, which mind you, also contains much beauty.

I put 'natural' disasters to use as a general point of reference...

If I was less lazy I would have listed them all... Earthquakes.... Tsunami....nope too lazy

I believe nature is under bondage as a consequence of sin.

My question for Christians would be... Are these disasters ever a punishment from God?

Could be a way to keep evil in check, or have a higher purpose. Punishment and punishment alone, I don't see much point to now. Eschatologically, when humanity is in full rebellion against God such that noone would consider turning to Him, then I believe Christ will return. But, that's just what I believe.

Kurieuo wrote:Could be a way to keep evil in check, or have a higher purpose. Punishment and punishment alone, I don't see much point to now. Eschatologically, when humanity is in full rebellion against God such that noone would consider turning to Him, then I believe Christ will return. But, that's just what I believe.

This topic makes me think of that sam harris vid I put up... Where he talks about tsunamis and God not caring enough about people to stop them e.t.c

You see, what such don't understand, is that the world is the temporary for a reason. It really doesn't take much thought to consider reasons why life might be made purposefully temporary by God. Therefore the natural laws God sets in place and sustains can and do take life.

It is also well testified by Jesus and the Apostles that the visible world and ourselves were made to be temporary and we're simply passing through. Consider 2 Cor 4:18; 1 Peter 1:24; Matt 24:35; Mark 13:31; Luke 21:33; 1 Cor 7:31; Heb 1:10-12; Heb 12:26-27.

Many like Harris say God ought to to have created the world their way. One that has the maximum hedonism for all, that is how Sam Harris determines goodness -- that which causes the most happiness ought to be preferred over that which doesn't. BUT, it seems to me Harris' most goodest world would be the best one for maximising spoilt brats who don't really care for others or understand love, self-sacrifice and many other prized spiritual virtues.

So the likes of Sam can have their God in whom they don't believe exists, but it's a strawman "God" that people like Sam Harris love to knock down i.e., "If God exists, then God would be like I say. God isn't, therefore God doesn't exist." Quite a joke. And, quite beneath Harris' otherwise seemingly bright mind.

RickD wrote:

theophilus wrote:If humans hadn't sinned there would be no disasters, natural or otherwise.

For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
(Romans 8:19-21 ESV)

Nothing but YEC eisegesis. Nothing in those verses says why creation was subjected to futility.

And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good.
(Genesis 1:31 ESV)

If there were natural disasters the creation wouldn't be very good. Something must have happened after the creation to bring them about. If it wasn't human sin, what was it?

theophilus wrote:

RickD wrote:

theophilus wrote:If humans hadn't sinned there would be no disasters, natural or otherwise.

For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
(Romans 8:19-21 ESV)

Nothing but YEC eisegesis. Nothing in those verses says why creation was subjected to futility.

And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good.
(Genesis 1:31 ESV)

If there were natural disasters the creation wouldn't be very good. Something must have happened after the creation to bring them about. If it wasn't human sin, what was it?

Says who, you? Who are you to say the way God created the earth to sustain itself isn't very good?

Just educate yourself on the basic reasons why the earth needs earthquakes, hurricanes, etc., and you'll see a pretty damn good system that God set up.

Nessa wrote:I put 'natural' disasters to use as a general point of reference...

If I was less lazy I would have listed them all... Earthquakes.... Tsunami....nope too lazy

I believe nature is under bondage as a consequence of sin.

My question for Christians would be... Are these disasters ever a punishment from God?

Punishment from God on WHO?

Natural events occur for a reason, without them we would be far worse and life as we know it would not exist on this planet.

Humanity may have rebelled against God but the planet and the rest of creation didn't.
There is no statement of such in the bible.
Sure the world is affected by our rebellion, but our being out of balance with the world, not being image bearers of God and protect and care for the world.
The world is as it has always been and will always be.
Yes, one day the world, the universe will be different for us, as it is for those in the realm of Heaven and while the bible states many things in the metaphorical sense( There be no more sea for example since the sea was a very typical symbol for chaos and fear, for obvious reasons), what is does state is that WE will be different, so different that the world as it is will NOT be a threat to us.