Evidence for God from Science

Audacity said to me....

You seem to imply that homosexuality is harmful. Is this what you're implying?

So I thought it might be good to start a new thread on this.

Yes, I do believe homosexuality is harmful.

Moved to more appropriate forum.

Okay, I'll bite. How?

Audacity wrote:Okay, I'll bite. How?

It's a perversion of what God planned, even likened to pedophillia or porn

They deviate from what God originally desired sex to be about. And if they are all truly sins, then they bring with it their own harm.

Nessa wrote:

Audacity wrote:Okay, I'll bite. How?

It's a perversion of what God planned, even likened to pedophillia or porn

They deviate from what God originally desired sex to be about. And if they are all truly sins, then they bring with it their own harm.

And what harm is that?

Audacity wrote:

Nessa wrote:

Audacity wrote:Okay, I'll bite. How?

It's a perversion of what God planned, even likened to pedophillia or porn

They deviate from what God originally desired sex to be about. And if they are all truly sins, then they bring with it their own harm.

And what harm is that?

The most serious harm would be separation from God. Sin separates us from him.

That's not to say you can't be a struggling Christian battling sin though

I have little doubt you could make a reasonable case for homosexuality not being harmful (from a worldly perspective)

It's two people just loving each other, right? I mean you can't help who you are attracted to and why should you be denied happiness when it's right there infront of you?

SImilar justifcations can be used for affairs/deserting spouses... also. Just about anything can be justified. Harm is minimised and shuffled to the back of the room, while pleasure takes a front row seat.

Homosexual activity is more harmful then heterosexuality:

http://factsaboutyouth.com/posts/health ... lifestyle/

Health Risks of the Homosexual Lifestyle

The current media portrayal of gay and lesbian relationships is that they are as healthy, stable and loving as heterosexual marriages — or even more so.1 Medical associations are promoting somewhat similar messages.2 Sexual relationships between members of the same sex, however, expose gays, lesbians and bisexuals to extreme risks of Sexually Transmitted Diseases (STDs), physical injuries, mental disorders and even a shortened life span. There are five major distinctions between gay and heterosexual relationships, with specific medical consequences. They are:

Levels of Promiscuity read more
Similar extremes of promiscuity have not been documented among lesbians. However, an Australian study found that 93 percent of lesbians reported having had sex with men, and lesbians were 4.5 times more likely than heterosexual women to have had more than 50 lifetime male sex partners. Any degree of sexual promiscuity carries the risk of contracting STDs.

Physical Health read more
Male Homosexual Behavior
Female Homosexual Behavior
Common sexual practices among gay men lead to numerous STDs and physical injuries, some of which are virtually unknown in the heterosexual population. Lesbians are also at higher risk for STDs. In addition to diseases that may be transmitted during lesbian sex, a study at an Australian STD clinic found that lesbians were three to four times more likely than heterosexual women to have sex with men who were high-risk for HIV.

Mental Health read more
It is well established that there are high rates of psychiatric illnesses, including depression, drug abuse, and suicide attempts, among gays and lesbians. This is true even in the Netherlands, where gay, lesbian and bisexual (GLB) relationships are far more socially acceptable than in the U.S. Depression and drug abuse are strongly associated with risky sexual practices that lead to serious medical problems.

Life Span read more
The only epidemiological study to date on the life span of gay men concluded that gay and bisexual men lose up to 20 years of life expectancy.

Monogamy read more
Monogamy, meaning long-term sexual fidelity, is rare in GLB relationships, particularly among gay men. One study reported that 66 percent of gay couples reported sex outside the relationship within the first year, and nearly 90 percent if the relationship lasted five years.

Other Health Risks read more
In Summary
It is clear that there are serious medical consequences to same-sex behavior. Identification with a GLB community appears to lead to an increase in promiscuity, which in turn leads to a myriad of Sexually Transmitted Diseases and even early death. Youth should be warned of the undeniable health risks associated with a homosexual lifestyle.

*Adapted from Dr. John R. Diggs, Jr., “The Health Risks of Gay Sex.” Corporate Resource Council (2002). (accessed 1/30/13)

Health Risk Updates:

December 2016: Increased mortality among LGBQT identified individuals

July 2014: CDC data shows HIV diagnosis among gay and bisexual men increasing

April 2014: Contemporary Pediatrics, “Sexual minority adolescents take more behavioral risks than heterosexual peers.”

References

[1] Becky Birtha, “Gay Parents and the Adoption Option,” The Philadelphia Inquirer, March 04, 2002, ; Grant Pick, “Make Room for Daddy – and Poppa,” The Chicago Tribune Internet Edition, March 24, 2002.
[2] Ellen C. Perrin, et al., “Technical Report: Coparent or Second-Parent Adoption by Same-Sex Parents,” Pediatrics, 109(2): 341-344 (2002).

Nessa,

Define "homosexuality".

Are you asking if a promiscuous homosexual lifestyle is harmful?

Or, are you asking if a sexual attraction to someone of the same sex is harmful?

I hope people can see the difference.

I think it's really important to have an informed discussion. I will say that citing 2 articles from 14 years ago is probs not the best way to go about it.
The understanding of homosexuality from a clinical and psychological perspective was widely known as a deviant and mental illness.
In all fairness i would like to think that any clinical findings presented may be kept to this decade.
Keeping transparency in accusation.
God forbid any Joe blow could sprout any nonsense devoid of current, intellectual findings.
What was once viewed as mental retardation and psychological deviance from a psychological perspective in current times has a very different flavour from 14 years previous.
Not too mention the extremely dubious 'findings' your post stated.

Lesson..
Just be real, and real enough to be authentic.
Always be brave, and bravely awkward.
Humility is the sweetest expression of self
And strength is the expression of character.

The understanding of homosexuality from a clinical and psychological perspective was widely known as a deviant and mental illness.

And some still view it that way, especially transgenderism.

You, of course, read that article from the former head of the Mayo Clinic.

By the very definition of "deviant behaviour" homosexuality IS deviant behaviour.

Anything that deviate from the norm or the ideal for the human species, is deviant.
Any behaviour that deviates from the norm or the ideal for the human species, is deviant behaviour.
Homosexuality is just that.

People juts don't like the term deviant because it brings up negative connotations, in short they don't like the term because is "mean".
Fact is, the term is correct when applied to anything the deviates from the norm, the ideal.

Nessa wrote:

Audacity wrote:

Nessa wrote:

Audacity wrote:Okay, I'll bite. How?

It's a perversion of what God planned, even likened to pedophillia or porn

They deviate from what God originally desired sex to be about. And if they are all truly sins, then they bring with it their own harm.

And what harm is that?

The most serious harm would be separation from God. Sin separates us from him.

That's not to say you can't be a struggling Christian battling sin though

So it's really of no more concern than any of the other sins:

Lust
Gluttony
Greed
Sloth
Wrath
Envy
Pride
Arrogance
Adultery
Blasphemy
Carnality
Wearing clothes of the opposite sex
Dressing immodestly
Condemnation
Boasting
Cursing
Deceit
Fornication
Despising one's neighbor
Drinking
Extortion
Faultfinding
Tattling
Foolishness
Fortune telling
Gambling
Denying Jesus
Mischief
Hate
Idolatry
Impudence
Killing a mother bird in the nest
Not being kind
Laziness
lying
Malice
Slander
Occult
Impatience
Tattoos
Rioting
Selfishness
Sex with a prostitute
Vanity
Witchcraft
etc.
etc.

Audacity wrote:

Nessa wrote:

Audacity wrote:

Nessa wrote:

Audacity wrote:Okay, I'll bite. How?

It's a perversion of what God planned, even likened to pedophillia or porn

They deviate from what God originally desired sex to be about. And if they are all truly sins, then they bring with it their own harm.

And what harm is that?

The most serious harm would be separation from God. Sin separates us from him.

That's not to say you can't be a struggling Christian battling sin though

So it's really of no more concern than any of the other sins:

Lust
Gluttony
Greed
Sloth
Wrath
Envy
Pride
Arrogance
Adultery
Blasphemy
Carnality
Wearing clothes of the opposite sex
Dressing immodestly
Condemnation
Boasting
Cursing
Deceit
Fornication
Despising one's neighbor
Drinking
Extortion
Faultfinding
Tattling
Foolishness
Fortune telling
Gambling
Denying Jesus
Mischief
Hate
Idolatry
Impudence
Killing a mother bird in the nest
Not being kind
Laziness
lying
Malice
Slander
Occult
Impatience
Tattoos
Rioting
Selfishness
Sex with a prostitute
Vanity
Witchcraft
etc.
etc.

Actually no, it isn't any greater.
Adultery, for example, would be a far worse sin.
See engaging in a homosexual act is a sin, much like any other sin really, BUT the reason it gets so much press is that homosexual don't want it to be a sin.
You don't see anyone arguing that adultery is a sin or that staling and lying and profanity are sins.

In all fairness Paul your post wasn't a English lesson but rather delved into the vast complexitity of Sexuality. An increase of promiscuity, sexually transmitted diseases, mental illness, depression, drug abuse and suicide leading to serious medical and psychological issues.
That's a big call.
You cited studies from nearly 2 decades ago.
What was known in the 8O's and 90's is quite polar to recent studies. In all fairness of the issue I think it's important that we stay relevant.
We know that homosexuality was deemed as a psychological deviance, but recent findings have refuted this idea. It is no longer viewed in the field as such.
We can argue why that isn't so, but in all fairness we have to represent the topic true to date. I could pull up and bring up similar outdated 'medical' findings that also reflected why the Caucasian brain was larger and superior to an indigenous brain. Such scientific findings were paramount to what is known as 'scientific racism'. It was a Catalism worldwide that lead and perpetrated the descruction of indigenous cultures based around a flawed science.
The science is irrelevant.
It's a flawed study, I'm much more interested in a spiritual perspective.
Because that is what we are dealing with, in regards to this topic, brothers and sisters in the Lord. Not by nature of their deviance but the very existence of their humanity.
When you view others through a lens of a brother or sister then judgment is secondary to the realisation of inclusion by the very nature that they exist.
They are worthy.
Special
An intergral cross section of what God has created.
First and foremost they are not forgotten nor an outsider. For too long the gay community have been made to feel outside of God's mercy, they are not.
They will stand before Our Lord and be held accountable as we all will. Gods Grace, love and Judgment will befall all of us.
Those that think they are a shoe in are the ones I pray the most for, as there is no place for arrogance in the Kingdom of Heaven.
But By the Grace of God
and we all fall short. Way short.
None of us come close.
Not by a long shot.
We are no more deserving than what we deem as the very least. Then subtract that ten fold then we stand somewhere least deserving than that.
The meek shall inherit the Kingdom of God,
Not in some religious lip service but because we are all struggling, sinful, human, at times lost and broken, put back together, scared, flawed but hopeful.
Hope transforms the spirit and replaces brokenness with faith.
That gift is for all of us.
Faith transcends everything. Every flaw, all our brokenness, gay or straight, it crosses every continent, every sin, every downfall, and it wraps us up in His mercy and saves us. Not because we deserve it but because He wants us. Each of us.
In our most broken state, He wants us.
He loves us.
Individually
Each and everyone one of us in our human broken condition to Him are worthy. If we weren't Jesus would never have hung blameless on a cross and bore our sins if He was ever going to turn around and say the price hadn't already been paid. Then the sacrifice was pointless. The perfect don't need a saviour, the lost do. More so than anyone else.
Jesus proved it when He walked the earth, He reached out to the most sinful, the misfits of society. That wasn't an accident, it was God showing us that love and mercy transcends sin. That God cares deeply about all and those that may be seen outside of Gods love.
For me as a Christian I am overwhelmed by the breadth of God's love.
Jesus once said if you only love those that love you, how are we any better than the tax collectors and Pharisees?? For even they do this.
To love, means to embrace those we see as unfit. To engulf them in His light. Not in pity, or arrogance but in equality of love. To view everyone as a child of God, as Jesus did for us.
Welcoming everyone with open arms and joy,
Imagine the difference we could make!
If we just loved like Jesus

Melanie,
The thread is title 'Is homosexuality harmful".
The evidence is clear that, health wise, it is more than heterosexuality.
Much like monogamy is more healthy than being promiscuous.