Evidence for God from Science

May I ask my fellow Christian members, both male and female, -- are you occupied with lust for the opposite sex, as your friends/acquaintances are as well, or not?
(Well, I do realize most of you are married and stuff, but, as a somewhat young male.... (read on))

For I can not ignore the amount of acquaintances and friends that turn around after every living chick(s) that passes us (not because myself is occupied with such a sin, but because I fear for them). For I can not ignore their talk about sex (the act of it, as well, not just the talk), friends with benefits relationships, sending nudes, etc...

It is simply, hmmmmm, weird, unusual and abominable to me. Like, it is fine if you do it with the girl you are with for many years and are planning to marry (of course, so confirms incredible amount of trust, conversation, getting to know each other and each others' families, etc), but doing it on and off with random girls and being in that friends with benefits relationships I find just absolutely sickening. Y U C K. Doing sex just for the sake of having sex or physical contact whilst feeling no wish or love to do that with her/him for the rest of your life...
F#ck sake....

To return to the first paragraph, like, all of my friends are so occupied with the physical attraction of the opposite sex (boob$, a$$, face and stuff) that I get called a fagggot every time I object to such, well, I dare to say (encouraged by C.S.Lewis) objectification and, hmmmm, simplification/relativism(?) of women.

Anyone else notices the problem I explained or is it just myself, lol? I find it simply dumb and I remember there being a topic on this forum with which I heavily disagreed -- somewhat along the lines that it is normal for every male to turn after any woman in bikini on the beach because that is how "male's nature is designed". <<<<------ n o t t r u e.
R e t u r n t o C h r i s t , h e r e t i c s.

IceMobster,

Face it, you're a prude!

Yes, I myself have had on and off again lust issues.

I have also gained insight into reasons why we may lust or seek after sex beyond the normal reasons.

I have read stories where straight men will have sex with other males just for affection they
never got growing up and that can be a big reason some people can fall into sexual sin. Especially teenage girls who never had a dad around.

It's not all just about being sexual creatures and wanting to have sex.
There are deeper issues at hand and I think to not realise that paints an incomplete picture.

Ice: May I ask my fellow Christian members...

Ice, as you identify in your profile as a non-Christian - so how can you be addressing "fellow Christian" members?

Nessa wrote:Yes, I myself have had on and off again lust issues.

I have also gained insight into reasons why we may lust or seek after sex beyond the normal reasons.

I have read stories where straight men will have sex with other males just for affection they
never got growing up and that can be a big reason some people can fall into sexual sin. Especially teenage girls who never had a dad around.

It's not all just about being sexual creatures and wanting to have sex.
There are deeper issues at hand and I think to not realise that paints an incomplete picture.

I agree completely with this. Many times there are deeper reasons why someone may be considered lustful. In some cases, there may be instances of sexual abuse as children, which may manifest itself later in life. In my case for instance. I often equate sex with love or affection, which can be emotionally devastating. not going into too much detail here though.

jenna wrote:

Nessa wrote:Yes, I myself have had on and off again lust issues.

I have also gained insight into reasons why we may lust or seek after sex beyond the normal reasons.

I have read stories where straight men will have sex with other males just for affection they
never got growing up and that can be a big reason some people can fall into sexual sin. Especially teenage girls who never had a dad around.

It's not all just about being sexual creatures and wanting to have sex.
There are deeper issues at hand and I think to not realise that paints an incomplete picture.

I agree completely with this. Many times there are deeper reasons why someone may be considered lustful. In some cases, there may be instances of sexual abuse as children, which may manifest itself later in life. In my case for instance. I often equate sex with love or affection, which can be emotionally devastating. not going into too much detail here though.

Totally agree that its easy to equate sex and love.

Does this have anything to do with women being attracted to men who beat them?

RickD wrote:Does this have anything to do with women being attracted to men who beat them?

are we going to go through that again here too?

Nessa wrote:

jenna wrote:

Nessa wrote:Yes, I myself have had on and off again lust issues.

I have also gained insight into reasons why we may lust or seek after sex beyond the normal reasons.

I have read stories where straight men will have sex with other males just for affection they
never got growing up and that can be a big reason some people can fall into sexual sin. Especially teenage girls who never had a dad around.

It's not all just about being sexual creatures and wanting to have sex.
There are deeper issues at hand and I think to not realise that paints an incomplete picture.

I agree completely with this. Many times there are deeper reasons why someone may be considered lustful. In some cases, there may be instances of sexual abuse as children, which may manifest itself later in life. In my case for instance. I often equate sex with love or affection, which can be emotionally devastating. not going into too much detail here though.

Totally agree that its easy to equate sex and love.

yes, sadly for some like myself it is. i have heard the statement "its just sex" from a few people, but for me, i am sharing myself with someone, so in doing so, i am also sharing other things as well. i dont see how people can say things like that, or not care about someone they are sleeping with.

There are sometimes reasons such as "sex" being a cheap substitute for "love" not had or other personal psychological reasons, yet don't forget in our societies we're cultivated towards such too perhaps at no greater time than ever.

Free access to porn online, yet then previous to such, littering magazines with women, in movies, tv shows and the like. Such all, ingrains into us a normality to it all, and a certain image of what beauty looks like. And then, there are our natural inclinations.

So then, seeing through the superficiality of it all, what are you to do? Yes, I think we all do have lustful thoughts. Yet, then there is much greater satisfaction in self-control and sticking to the structure God intended for family and such. God knew and allows for, but never intended us to be with more than one. Paul says we should not sleep with prostitutes, "for the two will become one flesh." (1 Cor 6:16)

You might read some of the exchanges had in this thread on marriage and divorce earlier this year.

Also consider,

• 3 Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, “Is it lawful for a man to [c]divorce his wife for any reason at all?” 4 And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” 7 They *said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give her a certificate of divorce and send her away?” 8 He *said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to [d]divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. 9 And I say to you, whoever [e]divorces his wife, except for [f]immorality, and marries another woman [g]commits adultery[h].”

You see, God never allowed for divorce, though he understands our weakness here. When Paul comments on such, he says if one divorces, then they should either remain single or being reunited back with their spouse. Because, such is better. God only ever intended with our design, spiritual design upon which the physical is built, for us to be married (united, joined, connected) with one other.

So then, break that design and healing is required, because something is broken. Divorce will break us in so many ways, and so too will sleeping around. Whether such be depression, true loneliness, resentment, hardening, inability to love, even never having the chance to have a family because "it's so much better being single and playing the field."

If you don't know the consequences of such, for example, gravity when walking off a cliff, then you'll still suffer consequences of such regardless. Your friends will suffer, in ways they never know, and when they suffer they'll wonder why never connecting the dots.

Jesus in talking to the woman at the well, saw she had "many husbands". And yet, she didn't see herself as married to them all. When she responded that she had one husband, Jesus never apologised, but pointed yes, she has a husband (by social standards) and five others. They were boyfriends, past perhaps, unlike her current official "husband". God saw she in fact had more, because spiritually, she had yoked herself to them (a main fulfillment and purpose of sex), and they to her. Unless God disconnects and heals such, then on a spiritual plain the consequences of such will run deep.

There is a richness to be had, that the majority of people in our world won't have, in only giving yourself to another and them vice-versa. Even realising the correct way, if one has failed in this respect, healing can be had and one can re-align to the correct design.

Ironically, society says the opposite, so much better to experience multiple sexual experiences with as many people as possible. And then, they detest the person who sees through it, and sees the better way is to try commit to one serious relationship -- such feel judged, which all the more makes them want you to join in with them. Hence, perhaps, your being insulted and the like by your friends who are oblivious to such things.

RickD wrote:IceMobster,

Face it, you're a prude!

Woah, didn't even know such a word existed. Yeah, I am shocked how relativized/downgraded sex, making love and marriage is. I'm disgusted to see it around me -- both through media and irl.

Philip wrote:

Ice: May I ask my fellow Christian members...

Ice, as you identify in your profile as a non-Christian - so how can you be addressing "fellow Christian" members?

Yeah, sorry. This was a question/my thoughts that I posted on a certain Christian board where I didn't claim to be a non-Christian since then I couldn't be a part of it and I enjoy it very much, so....

jenna wrote:i have heard the statement "its just sex" from a few people, but for me, i am sharing myself with someone, so in doing so, i am also sharing other things as well. i dont see how people can say things like that, or not care about someone they are sleeping with.

Y E S. If sex is just the physical act, you are doing it wrong.

Kurieuo wrote:Ironically, society says the opposite, so much better to experience multiple sexual experiences with as many people as possible. And then, they detest the person who sees through it, and sees the better way is to try commit to one serious relationship -- such feel judged, which all the more makes them want you to join in with them. Hence, perhaps, your being insulted and the like by your friends who are oblivious to such things.

Yes, you put it quite well here. Perhaps not as much insulted myself, but a bit surprised they don't see through it. Well, they were raised differently I guess and there are many other factors, as well...

Mind you explain more with the Moses and his case? Why did God allow divorce there? And I am pretty sure certain other OT people also didn't have sex/kids with their wife/husband, but with some other people (servants and stuff?).
Explain me that. Why did God treat differently them and when Jesus came and said these words, God obviously treats marriage and those who marry/divorce differently?

IceMobster wrote:May I ask my fellow Christian members, both male and female, -- are you occupied with lust for the opposite sex, as your friends/acquaintances are as well, or not?
(Well, I do realize most of you are married and stuff, but, as a somewhat young male.... (read on))

For I can not ignore the amount of acquaintances and friends that turn around after every living chick(s) that passes us (not because myself is occupied with such a sin, but because I fear for them). For I can not ignore their talk about sex (the act of it, as well, not just the talk), friends with benefits relationships, sending nudes, etc...

It is simply, hmmmmm, weird, unusual and abominable to me. Like, it is fine if you do it with the girl you are with for many years and are planning to marry (of course, so confirms incredible amount of trust, conversation, getting to know each other and each others' families, etc), but doing it on and off with random girls and being in that friends with benefits relationships I find just absolutely sickening. Y U C K. Doing sex just for the sake of having sex or physical contact whilst feeling no wish or love to do that with her/him for the rest of your life...
F#ck sake....

To return to the first paragraph, like, all of my friends are so occupied with the physical attraction of the opposite sex (boob$, a$$, face and stuff) that I get called a fagggot every time I object to such, well, I dare to say (encouraged by C.S.Lewis) objectification and, hmmmm, simplification/relativism(?) of women.

Anyone else notices the problem I explained or is it just myself, lol? I find it simply dumb and I remember there being a topic on this forum with which I heavily disagreed -- somewhat along the lines that it is normal for every male to turn after any woman in bikini on the beach because that is how "male's nature is designed". <<<<------ n o t t r u e.
R e t u r n t o C h r i s t , h e r e t i c s.

Lust is normal, it is a human function that enables the species, to procreate.
Sending nudes, being vulgar, making comment about every person that strides past, having casual sex with whom ever, whenever is not the intended design.
It's like equating a necessary function of hunger to being an absolute glutton and devouring everything you set eyes on and becoming obese and disease ridden. What was a necessary function can turn very destructive, physically, emotionally and spiritually.
Having some self control and morality on the subject is a testament of character, irregardless of whether you are a Christian or not.
The society we live in seems preoccupied with the notion if it feels good do it but there are consequences to our actions.
Be a prude, wait for that special girl/guy, it will be so much more enriching in the long run.

IceMobster wrote:To return to the first paragraph, like, all of my friends are so occupied with the physical attraction of the opposite sex (boob$, a$$, face and stuff) that I get called a fagggot every time I object to such...

melanie wrote:Be a prude, wait for that special girl/guy, it will be so much more enriching in the long run.

I think Mel is subtly agreeing with your mates.

Kurieuo wrote:I think Mel is subtly agreeing with your mates.

Haha, yeah, that's what caught my eye for a second, as well.

Sorry to refer you to sources, I'll comment, but defer to sources throughout...

IceMobster wrote:Mind you explain more with the Moses and his case? Why did God allow divorce there?

God never intended divorce except due to hardness of heart. Jesus' words are clear.

Even David, said to be a man after God's own heart, committed adultery and stole another man's wife through ensuring his death in battle. No prophet, no figure in the OT, is without sin. Not even the best of such, or us.

There is debate over whether Moses had more than one wife. I don't have a position on the matter, nor have given it much thought.

IM wrote:And I am pretty sure certain other OT people also didn't have sex/kids with their wife/husband, but with some other people (servants and stuff?).

I don't think we can ignore the culture aspect, and practicality of such during the time. Tribes, were built up and became stronger in numbers. For Abram to not have a son, he'd have no one to continue his line. So in weakness he took a servant, and then, paid the consequences of such action. The story gives a messages that he should have remained faithful and trusted in God.

While we see many wives tolerated, we also see much heartache and break downs that happen as a consequence of such. This is how natural consequences work. Regardless of wrong or right, do something ignoring the design and you'll suffer certain natural consequences. During my adolescence, after moving out of home, understanding this invisible law and the intended design of marriage, helped to influence me from making wrong decisions though I had desired to be otherwise.

Understand what I mean by "natural" consequences. If your toddler walks of a cliff, gravity doesn't care, your child will suffer the consequences and likely fall to their death. If they fall into a pool, the water doesn't care your child isn't getting oxygen, they'll drown unless they can swim, get out or be rescued.

Likewise, don't ignore the natural consequences of neglecting our spiritual design once you see such. Marriage is designed to correctly fit between one woman and one man -- in such man (and woman) find completion. It's not good for us to be alone. So then, God created Adam and gave him Eve. Jesus endorsed one marriage, over and against Jewish teaching where some considered taking multiple wives alright so long as you don't divorce. Read over Is polygamy allowed by the New Testament? for details.

Polygamy, polyandry, bigamy, same-sex unions, whether or not you agree, whether or not such is morally wrong, there will be consequences upon the individuals and those associated within fallout range. We normally can't see spiritual consequences until they happen, and so many, in willful self-denial and due to a reluctance to own up to responsibility, ignore them. Yet, depression, hardships caused by divorce, emotional pain and turmoil, further self-destructive thoughts, children being affected and even greater society are all part.

IceMobster wrote:Explain me that. Why did God treat differently them and when Jesus came and said these words, God obviously treats marriage and those who marry/divorce differently?

Jesus was also slapping Jewish teachers who were questioning him in the face, as that last source I referenced puts it:

• Because most Jewish teachers allowed polygamy, they would not have seen marrying a second wife as adultery, even if they had agreed that the man was still married to the first wife. But Jesus eliminates the double standard; a man consorting with two women is as adulterous as a woman consorting with two men.

God created a specific design for marriage to be between one man and woman. This is demonstrated in God's creation. Note, God took a portion of Adam's side and created Eve who as his counterpart. Such is symbolic of the intended union to be had between man and woman. That missing part of Adam, is found in union to Eve: "Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." (Gen 2:24) This is reinforced by Jesus when responding to divorce.

So God's intended design never changes from Old to New. Yet, God allowed, He tolerated polygamy and divorce, just like he tolerated Israel installing a king though Scripture notes God's displeasure with such. Their true king was God, and yet they too rejected that intention, and their turning away from God in desiring a different king was just the start of their failings. (1 Samuel 8:7)

God, the libertarian that He is, forever seeking a true heart and love for Him, let them have their way. He could not command their love and faithfulness. It is sad when one within marriage one is unfaithful to the other, and Israel was often unfaithful. Those who have suffered such unfaithfulness have no one better than God who understands.

God compares Himself as a faithful Husband who lead Israel out of Egypt, and yet they were unfaithful. (Jeremiah 31:32) Due to such, a new covenant was planned before time (1 Peter 1:20) which wouldn't be based upon fulfillment of law, but one which would allow God to forgive those who do have a heart for Him yet who nonetheless fail to be loyal. (Jeremiah 31:31-34)