Evidence for God from Science

Christian2 wrote:Mark 14:

60 Then the high priest stood up before them all and questioned Jesus, “Don’t You have an answer to what these men are testifying against You?” 61 But He kept silent and did not answer anything. Again the high priest questioned Him, “Are You the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?”

62 “I am,” said Jesus, “and all of you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.”

63 Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “Why do we still need witnesses? 64 You have heard the blasphemy! What is your decision?

According to Jewish law,

Was it blasphemy to claim to be the Messiah?

Was it blasphemy to claim to be the Son of God?

Was it blasphemy to claim to be the Son of Man?

Thanks.

RickD wrote:

Christian2 wrote:Mark 14:

60 Then the high priest stood up before them all and questioned Jesus, “Don’t You have an answer to what these men are testifying against You?” 61 But He kept silent and did not answer anything. Again the high priest questioned Him, “Are You the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?”

62 “I am,” said Jesus, “and all of you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.”

63 Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “Why do we still need witnesses? 64 You have heard the blasphemy! What is your decision?

According to Jewish law,

Was it blasphemy to claim to be the Messiah?

Was it blasphemy to claim to be the Son of God?

Was it blasphemy to claim to be the Son of Man?

Thanks.

If a mere man claimed any of the above, then yes, it was blasphemy.

Christian2 wrote:

RickD wrote:

Christian2 wrote:Mark 14:

60 Then the high priest stood up before them all and questioned Jesus, “Don’t You have an answer to what these men are testifying against You?” 61 But He kept silent and did not answer anything. Again the high priest questioned Him, “Are You the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?”

62 “I am,” said Jesus, “and all of you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.”

63 Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “Why do we still need witnesses? 64 You have heard the blasphemy! What is your decision?

According to Jewish law,

Was it blasphemy to claim to be the Messiah?

Was it blasphemy to claim to be the Son of God?

Was it blasphemy to claim to be the Son of Man?

Thanks.

If a mere man claimed any of the above, then yes, it was blasphemy.

How could it be blasphemy to claim to be the Messiah?

RickD wrote:

Christian2 wrote:

RickD wrote:

Christian2 wrote:Mark 14:

60 Then the high priest stood up before them all and questioned Jesus, “Don’t You have an answer to what these men are testifying against You?” 61 But He kept silent and did not answer anything. Again the high priest questioned Him, “Are You the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?”

62 “I am,” said Jesus, “and all of you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.”

63 Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “Why do we still need witnesses? 64 You have heard the blasphemy! What is your decision?

According to Jewish law,

Was it blasphemy to claim to be the Messiah?

Was it blasphemy to claim to be the Son of God?

Was it blasphemy to claim to be the Son of Man?

Thanks.

If a mere man claimed any of the above, then yes, it was blasphemy.

So it was the claim to be God that was blasphemy, not the claim to be the Messiah.

According to Judaism if the Messiah died, he was not the Messiah.



How could it be blasphemy to claim to be the Messiah?

He claimed to be God Himself!

Christian2 wrote:

RickD wrote:

Christian2 wrote:Mark 14:

60 Then the high priest stood up before them all and questioned Jesus, “Don’t You have an answer to what these men are testifying against You?” 61 But He kept silent and did not answer anything. Again the high priest questioned Him, “Are You the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?”

62 “I am,” said Jesus, “and all of you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.”

63 Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “Why do we still need witnesses? 64 You have heard the blasphemy! What is your decision?

According to Jewish law,

Was it blasphemy to claim to be the Messiah?

Was it blasphemy to claim to be the Son of God?

Was it blasphemy to claim to be the Son of Man?

Thanks.

If a mere man claimed any of the above, then yes, it was blasphemy.

How could it be blasphemy to claim to be the Messiah?

• It was/is the case that Jews did not expect the messiah to be like Jesus, but rather more like a military leader, king or some power head to lead them out of exile back into their home land where there would then be a time of peace.
  
  This point of fact was used by the high priests, elders and teachers of Jewish law to try and incite Pilate against Jesus. Once Jesus confirmed to the Jewish Sanhedrin that he was the Messiah, what did they do? With this “ammo” against Jesus they probably thought they could persuade Pilate to kill him on some bases of rebellion against Rome or the like (since the messiah was to set the Jews free). Surely, Rome would not stand for such insurrection?
  
  So after beating and spitting upon Jesus, the Sanhedrin took him the very next day to Pilate. It seems that Pilate somewhat saw through their cunning and desire to have Jesus’ killed—something that required Roman authority. Yet, at the behest of the Jewish leaders he asks Jesus, “Are you the Messiah, King of the Jews?” and ends up sanctioning his beating and death by crucifixion.
  
  As the gospel accounts tell, a series of events unfold where Jesus is mocked as the Messiah. The soldiers dress him up as a king and beat him in mockery of his being “King of the Jews”. The plaque was intended to mock Jesus, although it did not pan out to be exactly what the Pharisees wanted written which was, “He calls himself King of the Jews.” Instead the plaque read: “King of the Jews”. Then Christ says on the cross “forgive them, for they do not know what they do.” What didn’t they know? That they actually were crucifying the real Messiah!
  
  Jesus’ only crime in all this was that he claimed to be the Messiah. The implications being that Jesus would free the Jewish people and bring about a time of peace. Bart Ehrman, who is by no means in the Christian camp but nonetheless a valid first-rate historical authority, says in a debate against Craig that “No Jew prior to Christianity thought that the Messiah was to be crucified.”
  
  I also had an interchange with a Rabbi not too long ago, and it was his firm opinion that Zionists have lead Israel astray because occupation of their land is not divinely sanctioned. He wrote to me: “Jews are obligated by their own Torah to remain in exile and make no claim to Palestine until the messiah comes, at which time things will proceed as commanded directly by G-d.” Jewish people are still waiting for their messiah to come today!

Kurieuo wrote:

Christian2 wrote:

RickD wrote:

Christian2 wrote:Mark 14:

60 Then the high priest stood up before them all and questioned Jesus, “Don’t You have an answer to what these men are testifying against You?” 61 But He kept silent and did not answer anything. Again the high priest questioned Him, “Are You the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?”

62 “I am,” said Jesus, “and all of you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.”

63 Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “Why do we still need witnesses? 64 You have heard the blasphemy! What is your decision?

According to Jewish law,

Was it blasphemy to claim to be the Messiah?

Was it blasphemy to claim to be the Son of God?

Was it blasphemy to claim to be the Son of Man?

Thanks.

If a mere man claimed any of the above, then yes, it was blasphemy.

How could it be blasphemy to claim to be the Messiah?

I'm not really sure I understand how to answer this question, what the issue is exactly? But, I'll give it a shot.

Jesus was being entrapped by the Sanhedrin, the Messiah was understood to be a military figure who'd free Israel and lead them back to their land. So then, Jesus claiming to be this Messiah, ought to have been seen as an affront to Rome and any insurrection intolerable and to be clamped down upon. As for the Jewish leaders, false teachers/prophets who lead Israel astray were to be put to death.

To quote myself elsewhere:

• It was/is the case that Jews did not expect the messiah to be like Jesus, but rather more like a military leader, king or some power head to lead them out of exile back into their home land where there would then be a time of peace.
  
  This point of fact was used by the high priests, elders and teachers of Jewish law to try and incite Pilate against Jesus. Once Jesus confirmed to the Jewish Sanhedrin that he was the Messiah, what did they do? With this “ammo” against Jesus they probably thought they could persuade Pilate to kill him on some bases of rebellion against Rome or the like (since the messiah was to set the Jews free). Surely, Rome would not stand for such insurrection?
  
  So after beating and spitting upon Jesus, the Sanhedrin took him the very next day to Pilate. It seems that Pilate somewhat saw through their cunning and desire to have Jesus’ killed—something that required Roman authority. Yet, at the behest of the Jewish leaders he asks Jesus, “Are you the Messiah, King of the Jews?” and ends up sanctioning his beating and death by crucifixion.
  
  As the gospel accounts tell, a series of events unfold where Jesus is mocked as the Messiah. The soldiers dress him up as a king and beat him in mockery of his being “King of the Jews”. The plaque was intended to mock Jesus, although it did not pan out to be exactly what the Pharisees wanted written which was, “He calls himself King of the Jews.” Instead the plaque read: “King of the Jews”. Then Christ says on the cross “forgive them, for they do not know what they do.” What didn’t they know? That they actually were crucifying the real Messiah!
  
  Jesus’ only crime in all this was that he claimed to be the Messiah. The implications being that Jesus would free the Jewish people and bring about a time of peace. Bart Ehrman, who is by no means in the Christian camp but nonetheless a valid first-rate historical authority, says in a debate against Craig that “No Jew prior to Christianity thought that the Messiah was to be crucified.”
  
  I also had an interchange with a Rabbi not too long ago, and it was his firm opinion that Zionists have lead Israel astray because occupation of their land is not divinely sanctioned. He wrote to me: “Jews are obligated by their own Torah to remain in exile and make no claim to Palestine until the messiah comes, at which time things will proceed as commanded directly by G-d.” Jewish people are still waiting for their messiah to come today!

So then, evidently such was blasphemy to the Jewish leaders. False prophets who lead Israel astray were to be put to death. The crucifixion was to discredit Jesus as the foretold Messiah. His disciples left in disarray that their teacher has been put to death, and must have doubted all His teachings, miracles and like. Yet, then, we understand they found a new wind and even died unto death believing that Jesus rose from the dead.

62 “I am,” said Jesus, “and all of you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.”

PaulSacramento wrote:

62 “I am,” said Jesus, “and all of you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.”

This is the blasphemy here.
Claiming to be the Messiah was not a biggie, theologically speaking, BUT claiming to be the "second Yahweh" figure in 2nd temple Judaism most certainly was.