Evidence for God from Science

From the Christian Research Institute: Differences between Sharia Law and Old Testament Law:

http://www.equip.org/article/five-diffe ... ign=buffer

The differences are immense!

And so many who defend Islam and those who subscribe to Sharia Law, or compare such to the Laws and actions of God in the Old Testament are typically woefully ignorant of all but superficial similarities, and are not aware of the stark differences that reveal both God's love for all and the reasons for certain aspects of the Old Testament.

People will see what they want to see.
Of course they won't actually go and live in an Islamic country though.

i've lived in several Islamic countries, and while i am aware of exceptions to the rule, the ones that make the news, Sharia Law is a much overblown issue, that really compares pretty favorably to the custom in any small "Christian" town that is no less mired in the Law, and prolly quite a bit more.

Sharia Law allows for Grace, which is more than any of you can say for the Law you currently live under, which does not. No Grace allowed, in our system--the "state" will even continue pressing charges, regardless if the victim wants to forgive the defendant or not.

Women are oppressed differently in Christian communities, but not really less so.

Hence, challenging the actions of terrorist groups ultimately requires challenging the teachings of Islam.

this strikes me as a bit ridiculous, after allowing that Muslim terror groups are not following Islam anyway, so it was hard to take much after that seriously.

It might be cogent to note that we are all surrounded, completely, by practitioners of Sharia Law--which is voluntary--right now; and that they are practicing a Scriptural principle with this, NT no less, that most Christians are not practicing their own selves. You, whoever you are, have a next door neighbor who practices Sharia Law, right now.

Read the outtake below from the above link - notice carefully all of those that the Qur'an states Allah does NOT love. And then contrast that list with the list of people God loves - which is ALL people - the entire world of sinners for whom Jesus was sent to die for. And yet, many ignorant people think the "god" of Islam is the same as the God of the Bible!

Outtake from the above link:

Mosaic Law FOLLOWED Redemption

In the Old Testament, God gives the Mosaic Law to the children of Israel after delivering them from their bondage in Egypt. God doesn’t go to the Jews during their captivity and tell them that if they faithfully obey His laws, then He will rescue them from the Egyptians. Instead, He rescues them first and then gives them the Law. This foreshadows the gospel: “God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that WHILE we were yet sinners, Christ died for us” (Rom. 5:8).4 Biblical obedience to God is a result of God’s love, NOT a prerequisite for God’s love.

According to the Qur’an, obedience to Allah’s commands must PRECEDE Allah’s love, for Allah has no love for unbelievers or for those characterized by various sorts of sins:

(Note the huge list of people that Allah does NOT love!)

Allah does not love those who exceed the limits. (2:190)
Allah does not love any ungrateful sinner. (2:276)
Allah does not love the unbelievers. (3:32)
Allah does not love the unjust. (3:57)
Allah does not love him who is proud, boastful. (4:36)
[Allah] does not love the extravagant. (7:31)
Allah does not love the treacherous. (8:58)
Allah does not love the mischief-makers. (28:77)
Allah does not love any arrogant boaster. (57:23)

bbyrd009 wrote:i've lived in several Islamic countries, and while i am aware of exceptions to the rule, the ones that make the news, Sharia Law is a much overblown issue, that really compares pretty favorably to the custom in any small "Christian" town that is no less mired in the Law, and prolly quite a bit more.

Sharia Law allows for Grace, which is more than any of you can say for the Law you currently live under, which does not. No Grace allowed, in our system--the "state" will even continue pressing charges, regardless if the victim wants to forgive the defendant or not.

Women are oppressed differently in Christian communities, but not really less so.

Hence, challenging the actions of terrorist groups ultimately requires challenging the teachings of Islam.

this strikes me as a bit ridiculous, after allowing that Muslim terror groups are not following Islam anyway, so it was hard to take much after that seriously.

It might be cogent to note that we are all surrounded, completely, by practitioners of Sharia Law--which is voluntary--right now; and that they are practicing a Scriptural principle with this, NT no less, that most Christians are not practicing their own selves. You, whoever you are, have a next door neighbor who practices Sharia Law, right now.

What ??

Sharia Law allows for Grace, which is more than any of you can say for the Law you currently live under, which does not.

Yeah, sure, guess that's why this country cuts off the hands of people that get caught stealing a candy bar from a 7-11. Adultery, etc - same deal (of course, unless it's a well-connected man that's caught). It's why women in Saudi Arabia have so many wonderful freedoms.

Philip wrote:

Sharia Law allows for Grace, which is more than any of you can say for the Law you currently live under, which does not.

Yeah, sure, guess that's why this country cuts off the hands of people that get caught stealing a candy bar from a 7-11. Adultery, etc - same deal (of course, unless it's a well-connected man that's caught). It's why women in Saudi Arabia have so many wonderful freedoms.

To reiterate what Phil said,

Bukhari Volume 8, book 81779:
Narrated 'Aisha:
The Quraish people became very worried about the Makhzumiya lady who had committed theft. They said, "Nobody can speak (in favor of the lady) to Allah's Apostle and nobody dares do that except Usama who is the favorite of Allah's Apostle. " When Usama spoke to Allah's Apostle about that matter, Allah's Apostle said, "Do you intercede (with me) to violate one of the legal punishment of Allah?" Then he got up and addressed the people, saying, "O people! The nations before you went astray because if a noble person committed theft, they used to leave him, but if a weak person among them committed theft, they used to inflict the legal punishment on him. By Allah, if Fatima, the daughter of Muhammad committed theft, Muhammad will cut off her hand.

There's grace for you.

However, there is no real redemption in Mosiac law either. Was it better than sharia law? I don't know, it did preach eye for an eye and ordered, stonings, burnings, killings as well for various sins and crimes. It is what the bible says it is, a task master, someone who punishes.

The only saving grace is Christ and Christ alone. You wouldn't be better off in a society which strictly lives with the full effect of Mosiac law either, you'd be stoned publically for working on a Saturday or killed for many small other crimes, sins or offenses.

neo-x wrote:

Philip wrote:

Sharia Law allows for Grace, which is more than any of you can say for the Law you currently live under, which does not.

Yeah, sure, guess that's why this country cuts off the hands of people that get caught stealing a candy bar from a 7-11. Adultery, etc - same deal (of course, unless it's a well-connected man that's caught). It's why women in Saudi Arabia have so many wonderful freedoms.

To reiterate what Phil said,

Bukhari Volume 8, book 81779:
Narrated 'Aisha:
The Quraish people became very worried about the Makhzumiya lady who had committed theft. They said, "Nobody can speak (in favor of the lady) to Allah's Apostle and nobody dares do that except Usama who is the favorite of Allah's Apostle. " When Usama spoke to Allah's Apostle about that matter, Allah's Apostle said, "Do you intercede (with me) to violate one of the legal punishment of Allah?" Then he got up and addressed the people, saying, "O people! The nations before you went astray because if a noble person committed theft, they used to leave him, but if a weak person among them committed theft, they used to inflict the legal punishment on him. By Allah, if Fatima, the daughter of Muhammad committed theft, Muhammad will cut off her hand.

There's grace for you.

However, there is no real redemption in Mosiac law either. Was it better than sharia law? I don't know, it did preach eye for an eye and ordered, stonings, burnings, killings as well for various sins and crimes. It is what the bible says it is, a task master, someone who punishes.

The only saving grace is Christ and Christ alone. You wouldn't be better off in a society which strictly lives with the full effect of Mosiac law either, you'd be stoned publically for working on a Saturday or killed for many small other crimes, sins or offenses.

The OT Law was not for everyone, even certain parts of the OT law were only for the priestly class.
That said, yes, there were some very violent and terminal laws in the OT BUT the context of those laws are important as they were provisional and in preparation for the Israelite people to be MORE HOLY than their neighbors and, add to that, how many recorded cases do we have of those punishments in the OT? in those times? how about NOW?

OT law pointed to Christ.

Can we say the same about sharia law?

PaulSacramento wrote:

neo-x wrote:

Philip wrote:

Sharia Law allows for Grace, which is more than any of you can say for the Law you currently live under, which does not.

Yeah, sure, guess that's why this country cuts off the hands of people that get caught stealing a candy bar from a 7-11. Adultery, etc - same deal (of course, unless it's a well-connected man that's caught). It's why women in Saudi Arabia have so many wonderful freedoms.

To reiterate what Phil said,

Bukhari Volume 8, book 81779:
Narrated 'Aisha:
The Quraish people became very worried about the Makhzumiya lady who had committed theft. They said, "Nobody can speak (in favor of the lady) to Allah's Apostle and nobody dares do that except Usama who is the favorite of Allah's Apostle. " When Usama spoke to Allah's Apostle about that matter, Allah's Apostle said, "Do you intercede (with me) to violate one of the legal punishment of Allah?" Then he got up and addressed the people, saying, "O people! The nations before you went astray because if a noble person committed theft, they used to leave him, but if a weak person among them committed theft, they used to inflict the legal punishment on him. By Allah, if Fatima, the daughter of Muhammad committed theft, Muhammad will cut off her hand.

There's grace for you.

However, there is no real redemption in Mosiac law either. Was it better than sharia law? I don't know, it did preach eye for an eye and ordered, stonings, burnings, killings as well for various sins and crimes. It is what the bible says it is, a task master, someone who punishes.

The only saving grace is Christ and Christ alone. You wouldn't be better off in a society which strictly lives with the full effect of Mosiac law either, you'd be stoned publically for working on a Saturday or killed for many small other crimes, sins or offenses.

The OT Law was not for everyone, even certain parts of the OT law were only for the priestly class.
That said, yes, there were some very violent and terminal laws in the OT BUT the context of those laws are important as they were provisional and in preparation for the Israelite people to be MORE HOLY than their neighbors and, add to that, how many recorded cases do we have of those punishments in the OT? in those times? how about NOW?

I don't see how they impact the argument. The thing is it did exact punishments on crimes and sins both social and religious. Which is what a law code is supposed to do.
I have happened to read some of Islamic jurisprudence and within their own context they can justify their laws, much in the same way Jews can.

OT law pointed to Christ.

Can we say the same about sharia law?

Rick:
I agree with you, that is something that can't be said for sharia. Islam doesn't have grace. But Mosiac law doesn't have it either. In that regard they are not different, they both lack grace and ultimately can't save people.

I don't see how they impact the argument. The thing is it did exact punishments on crimes and sins both social and religious. Which is what a law code is supposed to do.
I have happened to read some of Islamic jurisprudence and within their own context they can justify their laws, much in the same way Jews can.

Are you sure?
Because Jewish Torah law HAS been revised and was always subject to interpretation by either the Judges, King or later the Sanhedrin and then later the Rabbi's.
When was the last time a Jew was stoned for breaking a Torah law?
We are talking about NOW, not then.
No one is actually arguing about Sharia Law in 800 AD for example.
We are arguing and discussing it NOW.

RickD wrote:
OT law pointed to Christ.

Can we say the same about sharia law?

Neo wrote:
Rick,
I agree with you, that is something that can't be said for sharia. Islam doesn't have grace. But Mosiac law doesn't have it either. In that regard they are not different, they both lack grace and ultimately can't save people.

But the difference is that OT law had its purpose. And that purpose was never meant to save. It was meant to point to Christ, correct?

Mosaic law points to grace. Does sharia law?

RickD wrote:

RickD wrote:
OT law pointed to Christ.

Can we say the same about sharia law?

Neo wrote:
Rick,
I agree with you, that is something that can't be said for sharia. Islam doesn't have grace. But Mosiac law doesn't have it either. In that regard they are not different, they both lack grace and ultimately can't save people.

But the difference is that OT law had its purpose. And that purpose was never meant to save. It was meant to point to Christ, correct?

Mosaic law points to grace. Does sharia law?

You are right but to me it makes no difference i would not prefer to live under either mosaic or sharia law.

PaulSacramento wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:i've lived in several Islamic countries, and while i am aware of exceptions to the rule, the ones that make the news, Sharia Law is a much overblown issue, that really compares pretty favorably to the custom in any small "Christian" town that is no less mired in the Law, and prolly quite a bit more.

Sharia Law allows for Grace, which is more than any of you can say for the Law you currently live under, which does not. No Grace allowed, in our system--the "state" will even continue pressing charges, regardless if the victim wants to forgive the defendant or not.

Women are oppressed differently in Christian communities, but not really less so.

Hence, challenging the actions of terrorist groups ultimately requires challenging the teachings of Islam.

this strikes me as a bit ridiculous, after allowing that Muslim terror groups are not following Islam anyway, so it was hard to take much after that seriously.

It might be cogent to note that we are all surrounded, completely, by practitioners of Sharia Law--which is voluntary--right now; and that they are practicing a Scriptural principle with this, NT no less, that most Christians are not practicing their own selves. You, whoever you are, have a next door neighbor who practices Sharia Law, right now.

What ??

Ya, truth does that.