Evidence for God from Science

It's a great time to be a Pats fan.

edwardmurphy wrote:It's a great time to be a Pats fan.

Roger that!

The great ones find a way to win.

PaulSacramento wrote:The great ones find a way to win.

Roger that too!

I really didn't have a dog in the race. OK, so my wife is from New England, but I've nothing against the Patriots - other than how Brady lied about "deflategate." But as a player, he is a winner amongst winners. I figured that he'd had enough success - so why not let the lowly Falcons win one, particularly as they have had so many dismal years? After the half, I pretty much just listened to the game on in the great room, while I surfed the net in my study. But when I heard they were only 8 points down with so much time left, and then I saw Brady orchestrating an amazing methodical march down the field - I had to start rooting for him to pull off something amazing. Course, he was helped by some miraculous catches. You certainly can't deny his toughness - he got the crap beat out of him yesterday. So glad I saw it! Atlanta is you and talented, they'll be back!

philiptheignorant wrote:
other than how Brady lied about "deflategate."

And I used to like you.

Consider yourself "unfriended".

So, Rick, why don't you think he lied?

Philip wrote:So, Rick, why don't you think he lied?

Lack of evidence that any footballs were intentionally deflated.

Look, I don't really care. I admire Brady. The deal is, it came down to arguments over the subsequent scientific analysis, the two Patriots equipment employees who had made suspicious comments to each other - going back a year, who were in constant contact with Brady. Really, was the amount of the supposed deflation even significantly advantageous? All that is up for dispute. It's no secret that Goodell and the NFL were out to get Belichick and Brady. However, what makes me think Brady knew about the deflation and that it was deliberate is this:

Per Wikipedia: "On or shortly before March 6, the day that Tom Brady met with independent investigator Ted Wells and his colleagues, Brady directed that the cell phone he had used for the prior four months be destroyed," the league statement read. "He did so even though he was aware that the investigators had requested access to text messages and other electronic information that had been stored on that phone. During the four months that the cell phone was in use, Brady had exchanged nearly 10,000 text messages, none of which can now be retrieved from that device. The destruction of the cell phone was not disclosed until June 18, almost four months after the investigators had first sought electronic information from Brady."

So, Brady, acutely aware that he was under investigation, knowing the NFL investigators wanted his pertinent phone messages and texts, nonetheless orders his phone completely deleted. He undoubtedly knew that action would throw far greater suspicion on him, but he had it done anyway. And why did he have someone else do that? What was so critical that he wouldn't have just done a total reset himself - even as suspicious as THAT would have been, if it ever came to light. Sounds like he wanted to make sure there would be nothing the investigators could prove their case with, makes him look guilty - why would he even risk that? AND the fact that Brady didn't even disclose the deleted phone messages until four months after they were requested - sounds like he was hoping it would blow over without the deletions becoming known. Just looks really bad.

Man, did they ever boo Goodell last night at the trophy presentation!

Well philip,


I guess you'd then call Brady a liar for what he said here too.

I dunno, Rick - I did not know that detail.

Link: "The league declined to work with the phone company to retrieve the details of Brady's cell phone records because it was "simply not practical." That line and Goodell's effort to make it sound like Brady's phone was deliberately destroyed prior to meeting with investigators doesn't instill much confidence in the the NFL's ad hoc approach to disciplining players."

Yeah, that SOUNDS like Goodell / NFL didn't do due diligence that they could have, concerning the phone. Or was that the case?

But then we have Brady's words: "I also disagree with yesterdays narrative surrounding my cellphone. I replaced my broken Samsung phone with a new iPhone 6 AFTER my attorneys made it clear to the NFL that my actual phone device would not be subjected to investigation under ANY circumstances. As a member of a union, I was under no obligation to set a new precedent going forward, nor was I made aware at any time during Mr. Wells investigation, that failing to subject my cell phone to investigation would result in ANY discipline."

So, is what the Goodell investigation footnote referring to as, "simply not practical," concerning retrieving info from the phone - did that mean it was undoable, or that the NFL didn't follow up? That makes little sense, as they had every incentive to follow up - even if it might turn out they were wrong. And so Brady's excuse about not handing over the phone - in an important investigation where his and his organization's reputations and integrity are being questioned, is that he's "unionized," doesn't want to "set a new precedent," and stands behind his lawyer. Really, that doesn't build confidence he's telling the truth. But then Brady just wants us to take him at his word:

Brady: "Most importantly, I have never written, texted, emailed to anybody at anytime, anything related to football air pressure before this issue was raised at the AFC Championship game in January. To suggest that I destroyed a phone to avoid giving the NFL information it requested is completely wrong."

Come ON! He likely could have solved it by turning the phone over. So, I don't think you've made your case concerning Saint Tom, Rick. But he is a great quarterback!

Haha, what a dumb debate. I'd rather debate Hugh on the Shroud, LOL.

Philip wrote:I dunno, Rick - I did not know that detail.

Link: "The league declined to work with the phone company to retrieve the details of Brady's cell phone records because it was "simply not practical." That line and Goodell's effort to make it sound like Brady's phone was deliberately destroyed prior to meeting with investigators doesn't instill much confidence in the the NFL's ad hoc approach to disciplining players."

Yeah, that SOUNDS like Goodell / NFL didn't do due diligence that they could have, concerning the phone. Or was that the case?

But then we have Brady's words: "I also disagree with yesterdays narrative surrounding my cellphone. I replaced my broken Samsung phone with a new iPhone 6 AFTER my attorneys made it clear to the NFL that my actual phone device would not be subjected to investigation under ANY circumstances. As a member of a union, I was under no obligation to set a new precedent going forward, nor was I made aware at any time during Mr. Wells investigation, that failing to subject my cell phone to investigation would result in ANY discipline."

So, is what the Goodell investigation footnote referring to as, "simply not practical," concerning retrieving info from the phone - did that mean it was undoable, or that the NFL didn't follow up? That makes little sense, as they had every incentive to follow up - even if it might turn out they were wrong. And so Brady's excuse about not handing over the phone - in an important investigation where his and his organization's reputations and integrity are being questioned, is that he's "unionized," doesn't want to "set a new precedent," and stands behind his lawyer. Really, that doesn't build confidence he's telling the truth. But then Brady just wants us to take him at his word:

Brady: "Most importantly, I have never written, texted, emailed to anybody at anytime, anything related to football air pressure before this issue was raised at the AFC Championship game in January. To suggest that I destroyed a phone to avoid giving the NFL information it requested is completely wrong."

Come ON! He likely could have solved it by turning the phone over. So, I don't think you've made your case concerning Saint Tom, Rick. But he is a great quarterback!

Haha, what a dumb debate. I'd rather debate Hugh on the Shroud, LOL.

Think of it this way...I'm bippy defending authenticity of the the shroud(Brady), and you're Hugh, despite all evidence, trying to claim the shroud isn't authentic(Brady isn't honest).

Believe me, like bippy researching the shroud, I researched deflategate. There's no evidence that Brady cheated at all. That is, unless you don't look at all the facts.

Does Brady not handing his phone over, make him look guilty? Sure, to those who already believe he's guilty. Ever think that maybe he didn't hand over his phone because he didn't want the world knowing what was on his personal phone?

Besides, the NFL got all the relevant texts from Jastremski's phone. Anything Brady texted to him, was on his phone.

Here's something else to read:
https://www.google.com/amp/boston.cbslo ... ent=safari

Rick, you're WAY more into this than I am. Plus you're wrong!

I said this prior to the game.If you're asking me who will win? It will be the Patriots,but it does'nt really matter to me who wins.I was almost wrong except for Brady's awesome comeback win.Eventhough I'm not a Patriots fan I do like Tom Brady and never believed the Flategate conspiracy. He has won too much to think he cheats to win.

Philip wrote:Rick, you're WAY more into this than I am. Plus you're wrong!

Of course I'm into it more than you, because I've actually done research on the subject!

Here's some more facts. But please don't let the facts get in the way of your opinion of Brady.

https://www.google.com/amp/profootballt ... ent=safari