Evidence for God from Science

02-16-2017 03:03 PM#19Fireball Wenz Fireball Wenz is offline
Senior Member
Join Date Sep 2013
Posts 320Quote Originally Posted by BarryBondsFan25 http://boards.billjamesonline.com/showt ... post116441
Chuck- politifact, the source you used, not me, in order to suggest trump is more of a liar than Obama, labelled obama's lie in 2013 as the lie of the year. Given that information, would you not logically conclude that both trump and Obama are liars? A direct answer, something that is extremely difficult to get from the extreme left on this board would be nice.


Well, we're all liars, right? Accdording to Christian belief, St. Peter was a liar, and Jesus chose him to be the first pope, or something.

All politicians lie more than most people, because the job demands it. Remember when Walter Mondale told people in 1984 that he was going to raise their taxes if elected? Everyone knew taxes were going to have to go up, but the consensus view was that Mondale was a fool to say it.

I am a liberal, and agree Politifact leans left.

But I have to say that I am baffled by people who think Trump is basically like Hillary, or Obama, or the Bushes or the Reagans. It's not so much that he lies more, it's that he tells far more unnecessary and cruel and needless lies. An example: he implied that Ted Cruz's father was involved in the Kennedy assassination - this is a lie of an entirely different magnitude. I sense that Trump doesn't lie for the reasons most politicians lie - to further themselves or their ends. Trump lies because he wants to hurt as much as possible anyone who is standing in his way at the moment. It's a slash-and-burn approach, unprecedented in Amercian political history, at least on the national level.

ultimate777 wrote:...St. Peter was a liar, and Jesus chose him to be the first pope, or something.

To whom may be interested, I have a rosary blessed by His Holiness St. Peter himself that I picked up while in Italy last year. I'm willing to let it go at a fair price.

I also have a cancelled postage stamp commemorating Pope Peter The First's coronation. The stamp is in almost mint condition and the cancellation mark is very light. I will not gouge a fellow Christian on the price of this artifact.

Thank you for your attention.

AreEl wrote:

ultimate777 wrote:...St. Peter was a liar, and Jesus chose him to be the first pope, or something.

To whom may be interested, I have a rosary blessed by His Holiness St. Peter himself that I picked up while in Italy last year. I'm willing to let it go at a fair price.

I also have a cancelled postage stamp commemorating Pope Peter The First's coronation. The stamp is in almost mint condition and the cancellation mark is very light. I will not gouge a fellow Christian on the price of this artifact.

Thank you for your attention.

Even Peter lied when he denied Christ.

Sure, Obama, Clinton, Reagan, the Bushes, and all the rest all massaged the truth, spun the facts, and on occasion, flat-out lied. All politicians do that.

Trump, however, is in a class all his own. He lies constantly and blatantly. He lies about little things like crowd size and how his electoral votes totals compared to other presidents. He lies about big things, like 5 million votes cast by illigal immigrants. He repeats other peoples' lies and spreads unsubstantiated internet rumors and lies from conspiracy but bloggers. He uses Infowars and the National Enquirer as sources of information. And his people lie for him. Kelly Anne Conway flat-out said that his administration used "alternative facts."

Trump is a catastrophe for our democracy. Thankfully, he's going to get impeached the second his poll numbers drop low enough to give GOP lawmakers an opening. They want Mike Pence, and the Democrats will most likely play ball. I don't want Pence, personally, but he'd be a huge improvement over the wannabe dictator that you guys elected.

edwardmurphy wrote:Sure, Obama, Clinton, Reagan, the Bushes, and all the rest all massaged the truth, spun the facts, and on occasion, flat-out lied. All politicians do that.

Trump, however, is in a class all his own. He lies constantly and blatantly. He lies about little things like crowd size and how his electoral votes totals compared to other presidents. He lies about big things, like 5 million votes cast by illigal immigrants. He repeats other peoples' lies and spreads unsubstantiated internet rumors and lies from conspiracy but bloggers. He uses Infowars and the National Enquirer as sources of information. And his people lie for him. Kelly Anne Conway flat-out said that his administration used "alternative facts."

Trump is a catastrophe for our democracy. Thankfully, he's going to get impeached the second his poll numbers drop low enough to give GOP lawmakers an opening. They want Mike Pence, and the Democrats will most likely play ball. I don't want Pence, personally, but he'd be a huge improvement over the wannabe dictator that you guys elected.

Not going to happen.But go ahead and believe fake news.It won't be the last time you were wrong. I have tried to help you but you like fake news.Nothing I can do but you're getting your hopes up for nothing.

Alex Jones was right throughout this election,it was the people you listened to that did not know what they were talking about and were totally wrong.The guests Alex jones had on were great also and they were so informed that we'd know what was coming weeks before it did and it would happen exactly like they said it would.Nobody in the media except Alex Jones explained why Trump was winning and would win and he was right.He showed in the polls how they were oversampling Democrats by 10 to 15 points and then claim Hillary was winning.Infowars is much,much more trustworthy than the MSM is.Trump is great for America and nothing he wants to do would hurt America. It is these career politicians that are the threat to America which is why they lost.You're going to have alot of crow to eat when Trump proves all of you naysayers wrong about all of your false predictions about the things Trump wants to do and why they won't work or are bad for America and him being impeached.

It is going to be wasted tax money because this Russia hacked story is fake news. The fact is that MANY countries hacked into America not just Russia and Obama did nothing to improve our cyber security. But ya'll only want to focus on Russia and push this Russia conspiracy theory. And you want to call Alex Jones a conspiracy Theorist? No it is ya'll with this Russia hacked helping Trump win conspiracy theory.It is a lie that Trump is a Russian operative working for Putin because Trump has been in the media for 40 years and he has no businesses in Russia and he is all American. You cannot make a lie the truth no matter how much you don't like Trump.

One of the reasons this impeachment will not work is because the MSM no longer has the power it once did to get its message out and they have no credibility to the majority of people.More people get their news from alternative news sources than the people who watch the entire MSM,this includes CNN,MSNBC,Washington Post,New York Times,CBS,ABC,NBC,NPR all combined.They still don't have enough listeners.This is another reason why Trump won despite everything the MSM threw at him and they still are,but it has not effected Trump.

You haven't tried to help me, you've smugly parroted the lines that you've been fed. Abe, I concede that you were right about Trump winning, but as best I recall that's the only thing that you've ever been right about. Generally you're so wrong, so vastly, comprehensively ignorant and misinformed that it's impossible to even discuss a topic with you. So please, don't patronize. I already feel enough fremdscham on your behalf.

edwardmurphy wrote:You haven't tried to help me, you've smugly parroted the lines that you've been fed. Abe, I concede that you were right about Trump winning, but as best I recall that's the only thing that you've ever been right about. Generally you're so wrong, so vastly, comprehensively ignorant and misinformed that it's impossible to even discuss a topic with you. So please, don't patronize. I already feel enough fremdscham on your behalf.

I was right about much more than that. I corrected you many times throughout the election and still am like this impeachment thing you're pushing that is not going to happen.

ultimate777 wrote:02-16-2017 03:03 PM#19Fireball Wenz Fireball Wenz is offline
Senior Member
Join Date Sep 2013
Posts 320Quote Originally Posted by BarryBondsFan25 http://boards.billjamesonline.com/showt ... post116441
Chuck- politifact, the source you used, not me, in order to suggest trump is more of a liar than Obama, labelled obama's lie in 2013 as the lie of the year. Given that information, would you not logically conclude that both trump and Obama are liars? A direct answer, something that is extremely difficult to get from the extreme left on this board would be nice.


Well, we're all liars, right? Accdording to Christian belief, St. Peter was a liar, and Jesus chose him to be the first pope, or something.

All politicians lie more than most people, because the job demands it. Remember when Walter Mondale told people in 1984 that he was going to raise their taxes if elected? Everyone knew taxes were going to have to go up, but the consensus view was that Mondale was a fool to say it.

I am a liberal, and agree Politifact leans left.

But I have to say that I am baffled by people who think Trump is basically like Hillary, or Obama, or the Bushes or the Reagans. It's not so much that he lies more, it's that he tells far more unnecessary and cruel and needless lies. An example: he implied that Ted Cruz's father was involved in the Kennedy assassination - this is a lie of an entirely different magnitude. I sense that Trump doesn't lie for the reasons most politicians lie - to further themselves or their ends. Trump lies because he wants to hurt as much as possible anyone who is standing in his way at the moment. It's a slash-and-burn approach, unprecedented in Amercian political history, at least on the national level.

There have been books written about Ted Cruz's father involved in the Kennedy Assassination.And there is a REAL photo with Ted Cruz's father and Lee Harvy Oswald together in it.So at the very least we can say Ted Cruz's father knew Lee Harvy Oswald and he was in the CIA too.You claim it is a lie,but Ted Cruz did not sue for defamation and he dropped out quick when it came out. I don't think we have enough info to claim it is a lie.Now even if it was true it would not make Ted Cruz guilty.Have you actually looked into it to see if it is a lie or are you just going by politifact? Because they have been proven wrong on several things they claimed Trump was wrong about that turned out to be true.

As for me I really see no reason to believe Trump lies on purpose like politicians do. I think he repeats information he has heard and it might not be true,but to me it is kinda funny to call Trump a liar compared to politicians and especially liberals.One of the reasons I supported Trump is because of his truthfulness,compared to politicians,it is important to me. Just because you don't agree with Trump or his ideas does not mean he is a liar,he is pushing ideas and things no politician would be willing to do and it might make it seem like a lie,bad idea,etc,but if you look into it? It will actually work eventhough people and the news media and people in both parties will claim it won't. Trump's economic plan would be an example as no politician would offer it,it is a totally new approach to the economy that is not just about cutting taxes like usually with conservatives,but is also about using America's advantage it has over any country to make money also.This is not how politicians think eventhough it is true and will work,they just don't want to use America's advantage.But let other countries do it.

edwardmurphy wrote:You haven't tried to help me, you've smugly parroted the lines that you've been fed. Abe, I concede that you were right about Trump winning, but as best I recall that's the only thing that you've ever been right about. Generally you're so wrong, so vastly, comprehensively ignorant and misinformed that it's impossible to even discuss a topic with you. So please, don't patronize. I already feel enough fremdscham on your behalf.

LOL how kind of you to say cough cough yet another self-righteous liberal.

You're very perceptive Stu. I was going for kind.

So Trump just said that the media is the "enemy of the American people." That's a familiar phrase, so I did a tiny bit of digging to see if I could figure out where I heard it before. I'll give you the answer as a fun little quiz.

Who on this list frequently (or ever) used the phrase "enemy of the people" to delegitimize their political opponents?

1. Mao Tse Tung
2. Vladimir Lenin
3. Josef Stalin
4. Adolf Hitler
5. Any of the first 43 Presidents of the United States of America

If you pay any attention to the differences between representative democracy and totalitarian dictatorship then you already know. In case you don't, it's 1, 2, 3, and 4. And, of course, Donald Trump.

Honestly, I'm kind of surprised that nobody here but me seems alarmed. I assumed that the crazies would stay reliably crazy and the dullards would remain true to form, but there are plenty here who fit neither of those categories. I'd have expected them to at least be a bit taken aback by our new President's tendency to talk like a dictator...

edwardmurphy wrote:You're very perceptive Stu. I was going for kind.

So Trump just said that the media is the "enemy of the American people." That's a familiar phrase, so I did a tiny bit of digging to see if I could figure out where I heard it before. I'll give you the answer as a fun little quiz.

Who on this list frequently (or ever) used the phrase "enemy of the people" to delegitimize their political opponents?

1. Mao Tse Tung
2. Vladimir Lenin
3. Josef Stalin
4. Adolf Hitler
5. Any of the first 43 Presidents of the United States of America

If you pay any attention to the differences between representative democracy and totalitarian dictatorship then you already know. In case you don't, it's 1, 2, 3, and 4. And, of course, Donald Trump.

Honestly, I'm kind of surprised that nobody here but me seems alarmed. I assumed that the crazies would stay reliably crazy and the dullards would remain true to form, but there are plenty here who fit neither of those categories. I'd have expected them to at least be a bit taken aback by our new President's tendency to talk like a dictator...

Trump is right! He is telling the truth like this Russia hacking story,it is fake news that you have bought into and believe.You are the crazy one believing lies put out by the MSM and you actually think Trump wll be impeached by this fake news. You have been propagandized and don't even know it. Then you spread more lies and slander like liberals always do implying Trump is a dictator for actually doing the things he ran on to do and hitting back those in the media who hit him first.They started it and when Trump is done they will be in shambles.Nobody believes liberal lies and slander anymore. You liberals can spew it out all you want to but nobody believes you anymore. I told you during the election that the media will not get away with their attacks like the have with other Republicans because Trump is not politically correct like they were and he hits back.I told you he is alot like Reagan in that he knows how to go over the media's head and talk directly to the American people,he just has a different style,but it is effective and I knew it would be. You are seeing it exactly like I said and he is winning because of it.Everything ya'll have thrown at Trump every since he got in this race has had absolutey no impact on Trump,it just bounces off and he is runnng circles around ya'll politically getting things done while ya'll do the typical liberal thing - lie and slander political foes.He is playing ya'll like a fiddle politically.

edwardmurphy wrote: Honestly, I'm kind of surprised that nobody here but me seems alarmed. I assumed that the crazies would stay reliably crazy and the dullards would remain true to form, but there are plenty here who fit neither of those categories. I'd have expected them to at least be a bit taken aback by our new President's tendency to talk like a dictator...

It is very obvious what Trump is attempting to do
... and yes I am a conservative who is alarmed by Trump's behavior as President ...

There are two powerful American institutions that Trump does not have power over
The Courts and the Media
Both of those institutions have the ability to place checks on Trump's power.

And what two institutions does Trump attack daily and attempt to delegitimize in the eyes of the American public?
The Courts and the Media
That's blatant authoritarianism, plain and simple.

Trump's constant lies, 'alternative facts' and claims of 'fake news' for any news that he doesn't like are also classic Orwellian authoritarian attempts to control the flow of information to the American public.

Trump is a business executive. He's used to getting what he wants. He's not used to checks and balances. He's used to stepping on those who get in his way, and that is what he's trying to do now.
Classic, pure authoritarianism.

I am alarmed... but I am not ready to panic.
The Courts have shown that they are willing to check Trump when he steps over the line... including Neil Gorsuch.
And they have shown no concern over Trumps rants about them.
That is of great comfort to me as an American citizen.

The Media isn't backing down either... and I believe CNN has a higher approval rating than Trump.

One of two things will happen...
1. Trump will eventually learn to adapt to a system of checks and balances and stop acting like an infant.
2. Trump won't adapt and will eventually do something that does merit impeachment, that even the Republicans can't turn a blind eye to. (I'm still waiting to see what else comes out of this Russia thing... I don't think we've seen the end of that story.)

America as a country is greater than it's President.
As a Conservative, I believe that if America could survive 8 years of Obama, then we should be able to make it through 4 years of Trump.

My .02

DBowling wrote:

edwardmurphy wrote: Honestly, I'm kind of surprised that nobody here but me seems alarmed. I assumed that the crazies would stay reliably crazy and the dullards would remain true to form, but there are plenty here who fit neither of those categories. I'd have expected them to at least be a bit taken aback by our new President's tendency to talk like a dictator...

It is very obvious what Trump is attempting to do
... and yes I am a conservative who is alarmed by Trump's behavior as President ...

There are two powerful American institutions that Trump does not have power over
The Courts and the Media
Both of those institutions have the ability to place checks on Trump's power.

And what two institutions does Trump attack daily and attempt to delegitimize in the eyes of the American public?
The Courts and the Media
That's blatant authoritarianism, plain and simple.

Trump's constant lies, 'alternative facts' and claims of 'fake news' for any news that he doesn't like are also classic Orwellian authoritarian attempts to control the flow of information to the American public.

Trump is a business executive. He's used to getting what he wants. He's not used to checks and balances. He's used to stepping on those who get in his way, and that is what he's trying to do now.
Classic, pure authoritarianism.

I am alarmed... but I am not ready to panic.
The Courts have shown that they are willing to check Trump when he steps over the line... including Neil Gorsuch.
And they have shown no concern over Trumps rants about them.
That is of great comfort to me as an American citizen.

The Media isn't backing down either... and I believe CNN has a higher approval rating than Trump.

One of two things will happen...
1. Trump will eventually learn to adapt to a system of checks and balances and stop acting like an infant.
2. Trump won't adapt and will eventually do something that does merit impeachment, that even the Republicans can't turn a blind eye to. (I'm still waiting to see what else comes out of this Russia thing... I don't think we've seen the end of that story.)

America as a country is greater than it's President.
As a Conservative, I believe that if America could survive 8 years of Obama, then we should be able to make it through 4 years of Trump.

My .02

Come on DB.You know all about the biased MSM if you are a conservative. You know how many political foes they have used it to hurt them politically.Yet it is like because you have never understood Trump or liked him you have forgot about how they work.We have known for years how biased the MSM is and how it does everything it can to help the Democrat Party. And if you are a conservative you should like Gorsuch and not be glad to see liberals trying to block him. The Supreme Court is very important and liberals have dominated it for years nd it is how they get things done politically when they don't have the American people on their side. They just legislate from the bench and that's that. These liberals are using the last bit of power they have against Trump-the courts. I don't know who you supported for President but i assure you that you would be singing a totally different tune if it was your candidate being unfairly attacked by the media like with Trump. Your candidate would have been defeated long ago because of it. Trump won't be.

As far as this Russia thing even the media admits that there is no evidence,but the media and RINO'S push it anyway.It is the establishment in both parties that were defeated in this election that want to drag their feet. But Jeb Bush lost and yet some Republicans still try to push his agenda against the winner.I said before this election that the establishment in both parties would try to hinder Trump and they are,they did the same thing to Ronald Reagan they are trying to do to Trump,they even tried to assassinate Reagan.But look at what Reagan did get done.History is repeating itself with Trump trying to clean up the mess liberals left behind.

abelcainsbrother wrote: And if you are a conservative you should like Gorsuch and not be glad to see liberals trying to block him.

I do like Gorsuch. I think he'll make a great Supreme Court Justice.
I'm glad that Gorsuch stood up to Trump.
And Gorsuch's willingness to stand up to Trump's attacks on the Courts is why I believe Gorsuch will be approved without the Senate using the 'nuclear' option.

DBowling wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote: And if you are a conservative you should like Gorsuch and not be glad to see liberals trying to block him.

I do like Gorsuch. I think he'll make a great Supreme Court Justice.
I'm glad that Gorsuch stood up to Trump.
And Gorsuch's willingness to stand up to Trump's attacks on the Courts is why I believe Gorsuch will be approved without the Senate using the 'nuclear' option.

Yeah,Gorsuch is more politically correct than Trump is.He will make a great judge i think though,and Trump will appoint probably atleast 3 more before he leaves office. Ruth Ginsberg is probably the next to retire because of her age and we will get another good one.