Evidence for God from Science

Amazon has a lot of reviews on it. The book itself is very scary and entertaining, but portray Satan and Demons as torturing souls in hell and running the place.

She says there is a "Fun center" in hell, which I find hard to believe that God would allow. She says hell is shaped in the form of a body, weird but sort of makes sense.

I'm not sure what to think of the book, it's not as "realistic" as 23 minutes in hell, and it's a little bit different from BW's account. Although I think both describe "cubes" were souls were tortured.

I find this critique from a New Age site near-death.com
http://www.near-death.com/science/artic ... s-nde.html

But, I feel the critique is a little unfair. Overall I'm not too sure what to think about this book. I want to believe it is real but not 100% sure.

Anyone else read the book and want to comment?

claysmithr wrote:

Amazon has a lot of reviews on it. The book itself is very scary and entertaining, but portray Satan and Demons as torturing souls in hell and running the place.

She says there is a "Fun center" in hell, which I find hard to believe that God would allow. She says hell is shaped in the form of a body, weird but sort of makes sense.

I'm not sure what to think of the book, it's not as "realistic" as 23 minutes in hell, and it's a little bit different from BW's account. Although I think both describe "cubes" were souls were tortured.

I find this critique from a New Age site near-death.com
http://www.near-death.com/science/artic ... -nde.html

But, I feel the critique is a little unfair. Overall I'm not too sure what to think about this book. I want to believe it is real but not 100% sure.

Anyone else read the book and want to comment?

Thanks,honestly, I have never read any books about people going to hell and coming back to tell about it,eventhough I believe hell is a real place. I can see how they can be appealing to people who are not sure about it and want to read about it,but I never have. I think they are good evidence for life after death because so many people claim to have had these experiences kindof like near death experiences.You might want to look into near death experiences also,however they are not necessarily evidence for the Christian God,they are evidence for a soul and life after death though and we can have debates about which God is the true God.

From the vantage point of what the book of Revelation says -- hell is being created / is For satan, the beast and the false prophet. It says that They will be in endless torture, knashing of teeth, utter darkness. The lake of fire and brimstone that never goes out. That is what is in store for them. People who are willing to follow them will end up in those same conditions. Those are the entities who have made it their goal to Purposely deceive people away from God.

Sounds like a person who wrote a book and was able to find a publisher and Amazon is willing to sell it to whomever is willing to pay for it. According to Scripture, there's not a bit of truth to it.

And we Do have the passage that tells about the rich man and the beggar -- they both die and end up in different parts of Abrahams' bosom. The rich man ends up in torment and the beggar can't help him. The rich man begs Someone to warn his brothers about what's to come if they don't repent. But he is told that they are alive and have the same info that both he and the beggar had.

The same today -- we have God's Word telling us the truth and lots of other people around telling us 'their truth'. God's Word is reliable.


I've heard people say that they'd Rather be in an environment Away from 'all these meddling Christians' -- they think that after all those narrow-minded people are Away, THEN they can have some Real fun. They think that in hell -- they'll be with all their friends and can have some Real fun. Are they ever going to be surprised. Based on God's description of hell.

It doesn't ultimately matter what hell looks like what we need to do is to get people from going there. The unholy trinity is doomed along with demons but humans don't have to go.
I wonder, do beings in hell, can they move around or are they stuck in one place?
I don't even want to begin to imagine how bad Satan will have it...

Doesn't Scripture talk about 'utter darkness'? How far does a person move in total darkness? Not far. Utter/ complete darkness because God will be absent. God is the light of the world.

I'm sort of hoping that part of the punishment of hell will be the unsaved remembering all the times they were witnessed to -- told how to avoid their present condition and they laughed at it. Repeatedly laughed at / scorned those who Did share with them. Maybe that sounds mean-hearted on my part.

Part of the blessings of heaven would be having the memory erased of their loved ones who ended up in hell. The husbands/ wives / children who refused to believe - no memories of them. Because we're told that there won't be any more tears in heaven.

crochet1949 wrote:Doesn't Scripture talk about 'utter darkness'? How far does a person move in total darkness? Not far. Utter/ complete darkness because God will be absent. God is the light of the world.

I'm sort of hoping that part of the punishment of hell will be the unsaved remembering all the times they were witnessed to -- told how to avoid their present condition and they laughed at it. Repeatedly laughed at / scorned those who Did share with them. Maybe that sounds mean-hearted on my part.

Part of the blessings of heaven would be having the memory erased of their loved ones who ended up in hell. The husbands/ wives / children who refused to believe - no memories of them. Because we're told that there won't be any more tears in heaven.

No where in the bible does it say our memory will be erased.... if anything we will know more than we do now

Nessa -- if we will retain memories of our loved ones / friends who've died and are not with them in eternity After all --wouldn't that be a sad thing and possibly cause tears of sadness. Or regrets that we somehow had failed them?

Nessa -- if we will retain memories of our loved ones / friends who've died and are not with them in eternity After all --wouldn't that be a sad thing and possibly cause tears of sadness. Or regrets that we somehow had failed them?

It is possible, as we will no longer be dripping with sin, and as we will have a much more God-like view of humanity and those who have remained in rebellion - meaning, we may well be at peace knowing the judgment was just and that it was also the best decision, as it prevented those in rebellion from having the opportunity to infect Heaven with their lack of desire for God and His ways - so, we may not be sad because we will much more fully realize the beauty of God's justice and even more the evil of those who have rejected His grace and love. And we'll also far better understand who our REAL brothers and sisters are - they'll be those just like us who chose to accept and embrace God's desire for us. I doubt we'll miss those God has separated from us (per THEIR choice to reject God/Christ).

I'd agree with Nessa re: knowing more.

Our loved ones who are lost, such is something we will need to deal with. Love leaves scars, but don't think God too wouldn't also be pained (and God can't forget). However, we will have a full knowledge of why they are there, that God didn't just snuff them out (unless you believe in Annihiliation), and nonetheless cares deeply for them.

We understand that the reality is, for them to be taken into God's kingdom, God must be prepared to hand His throne over to them, because such want little to do with God except question Him, judge Him, usurp His power and authority, hold God accountable for everything bad in their life and predicament. I tend to picture many in hell being driven to madness, trapped in mental unstability, entirely negative, very irritable, narccisitic. I've seen glimpses of this in people, more or less trapped by themselves in such states and it is quite sad.

But then, what of another on the "other side" of the chasm, another who also wants to be God and judge. And then another, and another, and millions of people who just like Satan are each desiring to be God, judge God and others, usurp God. Rather than let God be God, and acknowledge any goodness is God's, receive the love on offer, and love back trusting in God to be God since only God is God.

Emotionally, I'm put off the idea that God makes us forget. I see the logic to such, since there will no longer be tears and the like. BUT, tears seem better, less horrible and more honourable than the idea God makes us forget. So instead, I'm drawn towards God giving us full knowledge and insight to see clearly that it must be the way it is despite our love for those lost. Yet, we cherish the love and relationship we have with God and others, and even still love those lost (like God) which remain somewhat as scars.

Kurieuo wrote: ...I tend to picture many in hell being driven to madness, trapped in mental unstability, entirely negative, very irritable, narccisitic. I've seen glimpses of this in people, more or less trapped by themselves in such states and it is quite sad.

This is true K, very true... that is is what they become... sealed in that state forever as that is what they love the most.

There is really no such thing as a really perfectly good person. Mother Teresa wrote in her "Letters" how vacuous she felt and that her good works still left her empty inside, yet, she is often cited as a good person, yet, she admitted that she was not. We human beings use good works to appease ourselves that we are somehow victims deserving mercy so we can continue unchanged and then waltz into heaven. That defines abusing the goodness of God shown upon the cross and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Kurieuo wrote:...So instead, I'm drawn towards God giving us full knowledge and insight to see clearly that it must be the way it is despite our love for those lost...

Again, this is true...

One see's who God is with understanding and knowledge in such a capacity that one grasps that it for the reason of love God will stop forever those who abuse, take advantage of, exploit, game God's Love (and all his character attributes too) to remain as the 1st quote above indicates. Also, let's not forget,there will be no sorrow, sickness, sin, etc, in heaven.

Jesus died exposing the corruptness of the Human heart as well as dying for our sins that this hidden corruptness of the heart produces and died in our place paying the price for our rebellion/sins is actually a love so profound that my own mind to this day cannot wrap my head around why anyone would do this for folks like us.

Yet, he did, and rose from the dead so we can share the Spirit of the Living God within us to lead us home, heal our heart wounds, set us free from our captivity, and personal prisons. Sharing that Resurrection Power with us and training us in how all this works and cleaning us up as well, restoring our soul, and reconciling back to God's original plan is way too profound to fully comprehend.

To reject what Jesus did and accomplished for and to an undeserving humanity is crazy!

Too demand that we are so good or that we are flawed but decent people so by that I can enter heaven is rejecting what God did to wake us up to what we are really like to each other and God rejecting the rescue he offers ... is an affront to the Lord's love shown and proven by such a price he paid...

If anyone reading this is waking up, come to Jesus just as you are and do likewise:

"But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, the sinner!" Luke 18:13 NKJV

Add save me... and forgive what I have done (name these)... make me thine own, make me born again and lead me the rest of my days, I am yours... in Jesus Name - amen..
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Kurieuo wrote:
Emotionally, I'm put off the idea that God makes us forget. I see the logic to such, since there will no longer be tears and the like. BUT, tears seem better, less horrible and more honourable than the idea God makes us forget. So instead, I'm drawn towards God giving us full knowledge and insight to see clearly that it must be the way it is despite our love for those lost. Yet, we cherish the love and relationship we have with God and others, and even still love those lost (like God) which remain somewhat as scars.

I see your point, but if heaven is perfect and all good then those tears and the like would bring bad memories and sadness and would make heaven not so good.

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:
Emotionally, I'm put off the idea that God makes us forget. I see the logic to such, since there will no longer be tears and the like. BUT, tears seem better, less horrible and more honourable than the idea God makes us forget. So instead, I'm drawn towards God giving us full knowledge and insight to see clearly that it must be the way it is despite our love for those lost. Yet, we cherish the love and relationship we have with God and others, and even still love those lost (like God) which remain somewhat as scars.

I see your point, but if heaven is perfect and all good then those tears and the like would bring bad memories and sadness and would make heaven not so good.

Perhaps then, there is good logical argument, for eventual universal "salvation" for all. That is, if we must accept that there must not be one sad thought allowed in heaven. Yet, then, I see universal salvation would need to override one's free choice, since for all to be saved, I see that God must override what it is one chooses and/or turn people into robots who just "fit in". So then, is a person truly saved in such a view, or are those who reject God kind of mind sucked and forced to comply.

I think, if you examine Scripture closely, you'll see that it never endorses blissful-wishful happiness, like taking a drug to make all the bad disappear. Rather, what you will find is Scripture saying the "old world", this world we now live in, where there is death, pain and suffering -- it has all passed away and there will be no more of such. No more dead, crying for people who end up dying. No more disease, sickness and suffering from such. No more wars and femines. For this world we know has come to an end. That is what I'd argue Scripture intends with no more tears. It is a substantive happiness, which may seem blissful, but it isn't wishfully had through ignoring facts.

Furthermore, I do not believe there is a contradiction between:

1) Knowing a loved one is cast out from God's kingdom for eternity.
2) Being happy with God and loving Him and others in God's kingdom.

It might be hard to conceive, but I don't believe there is necessarily a contradiction.

The only thing that would ruin our happiness is if we questioned God's judgement, for then we're putting ourselves as judge thinking ourselves wiser than the source of all wisdom. So again, I believe that we will have full understanding to see that those kept outside God's kingdom are in effect locked there themselves, on their own terms. And, if they were to be allowed in, they would cause us all pain and misery with their continual gibes, scoffing, mocking and vehement remarks. Many would want to kill us, rape us, scratch at us, do anything to terrorise and bring God and His heavenly children down.

So a solution is to forget all such things? Or maybe suffer in love for the lost with a full understanding of the boundaries that are necessarily in place? Perhaps, if it pains you so, then you'll be able to forget if you want to. There just feels to me something wrong with that, something selfish and unloving. I don't believe such is loving or respectful at all, whether forgetting those who died in wars fighting, or forgetting those who were lost who refused God -- "lest we forget."

God wiping away all tears suggests a process. It makes sense that would involve past tears and present tears. Tears for those lost. But God will heal us and the grieving will come to an end as we are given full knowledge.

"He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there will be NO more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the FORMER things HAVE passed away.”

When the permanent Heaven / Earth are merged with God living amongst man, I don't believe there is a "process," as the wording, "will wipe away every tear," is symbolic of what will actually be done in totality, because the "will" of that verse relates to a future state of those saved (hasn't happened yet) - a state in which there will be NO more fears or regrets, as the "FORMER" (they no longer exist, they are ALL gone!) things will have passed away. The abode of God (Heaven) is a place in which there will be a perfect reality absent pain - if the pain would be there, it could not be Heaven, the place of eternal bliss.

It's hard for me to imagine an eternal heaven absent of any pain and fear etc. Anyone else have this?