Evidence for God from Science

Over the years, I've seen quite a few atheist and agnostics on the forum relentlessly argue their reasons why they don't believe in God, or don't believe in an afterlife. Seems they doth protest too much! I really don't get why anyone who believes there is no God truly cares beyond a certain, rather casual point. Those I've seen here typically don't seem terribly upset by Christianity or see Christians as a big threat, nor tend to view Christians as religious simpletons, etc. But I'm surprised at their passion for arguing, over very long periods, over their belief that there is no God. Why does that seem to matter so much to them? Why really care what Believers think?

Philip wrote:Over the years, I've seen quite a few atheist and agnostics on the forum relentlessly argue their reasons why they don't believe in God, or don't believe in an afterlife. Seems they doth protest too much! I really don't get why anyone who believes there is no God truly cares beyond a certain, rather casual point. Those I've seen here typically don't seem terribly upset by Christianity or see Christians as a big threat, nor tend to view Christians as religious simpletons, etc. But I'm surprised at their passion for arguing, over very long periods, over their belief that there is no God. Why does that seem to matter so much to them? Why really care what Believers think?

Maybe they spend just as much time on flat earth forums, arguing against a flat earth.

Philip wrote:Over the years, I've seen quite a few atheist and agnostics on the forum relentlessly argue their reasons why they don't believe in God, or don't believe in an afterlife. Seems they doth protest too much! I really don't get why anyone who believes there is no God truly cares beyond a certain, rather casual point. Those I've seen here typically don't seem terribly upset by Christianity or see Christians as a big threat, nor tend to view Christians as religious simpletons, etc. But I'm surprised at their passion for arguing, over very long periods, over their belief that there is no God. Why does that seem to matter so much to them? Why really care what Believers think?

These atheists and agnostics you speak of; do they usually offer unsolicited opinions? Or are they usually responding to questions asked by theists?

Ken

Kenny wrote:

Philip wrote:These atheists and agnostics you speak of; do they usually offer unsolicited opinions? Or are they usually responding to questions asked by theists?Ken

Some of both. But beyond a certain point, knowing the beliefs of theists - and that they look at things very differently - why the continued passion for the argument? As from an atheistic point of view, the fate of everyone is ultimately the same. So, if one believes that to be the case, why care that people disagree with them?

"So, you believe in Zeus and some kind of afterlife and I don't. You understand why I believe as I do, and I understand your reasoning behind your beliefs." It just seems baffling why a person would prolifically care about the beliefs of others that are in natural opposition to one's own - ESPESCIALLY if they believe the ultimate fates of all theists (of whatever spiritual belief) to be IDENTICAL to their own. As, IF true, why the passion for what would ultimately, from a non-theist view, be irrelevant? Does the atheist hope to convert theists to their own view? See themselves as "flying the flag?" If one believes the REAL sticking point in their ongoing philosophical disagreements with others is basically irrelevant, that after death we're all like deleted tapes that briefly existed, but no longer do - then why care to such a degree? You like oranges and I like apples - why truly care?

Well, the usual answer is that there's a wish to change their political beliefs, uprooting what they see as illogical beliefs, if not simply trying to have a laugh at what they see as backwards thinking. And many of them are self-admittedly angry at God, thinking Him to be immoral, standing by, watching as people suffer great evils. Though I think there's more to it than that.

Basically, I haven't seen any worldview as comprehensive in its answering metaphysical questions as Christianity. Many people nowadays try to adhere to a strict skepticism, but these same people also suffer overwhelmingly from existential crises. When all meanings and values are thought of as subjective, it makes everything equal and void -- all fine and good if that truly made all meanings equal, but if there's anything one can't fool themselves out of, it's their own suffering.

I know a militant atheist that turned back to studying the Bible as a way of getting more in touch with his cultural roots, seeing it as a great alternative to many of the extremist ideologies cropping up lately. Christianity's had a huge impact on Western culture, so if you throw that out, you've got a lot of work cut out for you. And more often than not, people just end up with a self-defeating worldview instead.

My 2c.

BTW, Patrick, I never received a reply to the info I sent you awhile ago.

Oh, it was good, I just hadn't much to add. I do think there's a lot to be said about living by the Bible in terms of the underlying principles it illustrates, not simply what we feel God should do for us. I've definitely made that mistake. You can't just expect God to swoop down and divinely intervene every time you're confused to show you the way. I hadn't really thought about it much before reading that material, but upon reflection that sort of thinking isn't even supported in the Bible, so it's no wonder it doesn't work.

And I've long argued in favor of really rolling up your sleeves and thinking rationally about what you should do -- love God with all your heart yes, but all your mind too. A lot of people seem to gloss over the mind part, almost like God will do the thinking for them. Doesn't work like that. And it was refreshing to see a pastor show some measure of skepticism about people thinking God spoke to them -- like sure maybe, but how do you know, especially if you haven't found support for that sort of thing in scripture?

Philip wrote:Over the years, I've seen quite a few atheist and agnostics on the forum relentlessly argue their reasons why they don't believe in God, or don't believe in an afterlife. Seems they doth protest too much! I really don't get why anyone who believes there is no God truly cares beyond a certain, rather casual point. Those I've seen here typically don't seem terribly upset by Christianity or see Christians as a big threat, nor tend to view Christians as religious simpletons, etc. But I'm surprised at their passion for arguing, over very long periods, over their belief that there is no God. Why does that seem to matter so much to them? Why really care what Believers think?

There are many reasons why they do it and I'm going to try to touch on some of them reasons.It makes them feel apart of something,I mean a group of atheists trying to persuade other people to be atheists too,they see it as a good thing.They believe science has all of the answers and believe and trust scientists over creationists. They believe creationism is a threat to education and believe that it harms education and makes a society dumber.They have made up an imaginary boogieman in their mind and believe that most Christians want to force them to obey God against their will,when they do not believe in God.They want to be able to live anyway they choose to and not be restricted by religious dogma that says we can't do this or that.They have forgot that you cannot have true freedom without a moral society and believe freedom is to be able to live anyway you choose to.They have forgot that atheist societies have killed and oppressed far,far more people than all of the wars combined by Christians and they still believe that they can have a Godless society and be a free and moral people,totally contrary to what history shows when atheists get in power and rule.They take the blessings of technology God has given to the west and thanks science instead of God,eventhough the countries that are not Christian around the world are not nearly as blessed with technology that we have in the west.They use the freedom Jesus Christ gave them to mock God.

Philip wrote:

Kenny wrote:

Philip wrote:These atheists and agnostics you speak of; do they usually offer unsolicited opinions? Or are they usually responding to questions asked by theists?Ken

Some of both. But beyond a certain point, knowing the beliefs of theists - and that they look at things very differently - why the continued passion for the argument? As from an atheistic point of view, the fate of everyone is ultimately the same. So, if one believes that to be the case, why care that people disagree with them?

I guess there are just some people (and I see this on both sides of the theistic debate; Atheists as well as Theists) who feel a need to convert others to their way of thinking. Rarely does anyone convert, but it usually results into some very interesting, and educational discussions.

Peace
Ken

Kenny wrote: I guess there are just some people (and I see this on both sides of the theistic debate; Atheists as well as Theists) who feel a need to convert others to their way of thinking. Rarely does anyone convert, but it usually results into some very interesting, and educational discussions.

Peace
Ken

Usually people convert by the time they're in their late teens/early 20s.

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Philip wrote:Over the years, I've seen quite a few atheist and agnostics on the forum relentlessly argue their reasons why they don't believe in God, or don't believe in an afterlife. Seems they doth protest too much! I really don't get why anyone who believes there is no God truly cares beyond a certain, rather casual point. Those I've seen here typically don't seem terribly upset by Christianity or see Christians as a big threat, nor tend to view Christians as religious simpletons, etc. But I'm surprised at their passion for arguing, over very long periods, over their belief that there is no God. Why does that seem to matter so much to them? Why really care what Believers think?

There are many reasons why they do it and I'm going to try to touch on some of them reasons.It makes them feel apart of something,I mean a group of atheists trying to persuade other people to be atheists too,they see it as a good thing.They believe science has all of the answers and believe and trust scientists over creationists. They believe creationism is a threat to education and believe that it harms education and makes a society dumber.They have made up an imaginary boogieman in their mind and believe that most Christians want to force them to obey God against their will,when they do not believe in God.They want to be able to live anyway they choose to and not be restricted by religious dogma that says we can't do this or that.They have forgot that you cannot have true freedom without a moral society and believe freedom is to be able to live anyway you choose to.They have forgot that atheist societies have killed and oppressed far,far more people than all of the wars combined by Christians and they still believe that they can have a Godless society and be a free and moral people,totally contrary to what history shows when atheists get in power and rule.They take the blessings of technology God has given to the west and thanks science instead of God,eventhough the countries that are not Christian around the world are not nearly as blessed with technology that we have in the west.They use the freedom Jesus Christ gave them to mock God.

An excellent example of why this thead is directed at those who DO NOT believe in God

Philip wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2017 5:52 pm Why does that seem to matter so much to them? Why really care what Believers think?

I also care about this question

dand wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 7:04 am

Philip wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2017 5:52 pm Why does that seem to matter so much to them? Why really care what Believers think?

I also care about this question

If you are my neighbor, what you think about me, what you believe about me has an effect on my life.

Ken

Kenny wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 7:25 pm

dand wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 7:04 am

Philip wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2017 5:52 pm Why does that seem to matter so much to them? Why really care what Believers think?

I also care about this question

If you are my neighbor, what you think about me, what you believe about me has an effect on my life.

Ken

Probably why some believers feel the "need" to convert non-believers.

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Wed May 02, 2018 6:23 am

Kenny wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 7:25 pm

dand wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 7:04 am

Philip wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2017 5:52 pm Why does that seem to matter so much to them? Why really care what Believers think?

I also care about this question

If you are my neighbor, what you think about me, what you believe about me has an effect on my life.

Ken

Probably why some believers feel the "need" to convert non-believers.

Unfortunately; very true. Which is why it matters to them what believers think

K