Evidence for God from Science

What do you think of it?

Pansies don't like Trump...
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Most people don't like Trump.

But some people don't like ANYTHING he does - because he's not ultra liberal or progressive in outlook. And many of us who have problems with various things about him, things he's done - we have far more problems with the sensibilities of the left and Democratic party. Trump is not the best representative of many conservatives. But they had no real choice.

Please. We didn't have an ultra-liberal President. Obama was a centrist. The ACA that conservatives now label socialism was initially a Republican plan. Most fire-breathing Clinton haters can't even explain why the feel that way. "Lock her up" was just another version of "Four legs good, two legs bad" - something for morons with to scream in the faces of anyone trying to make a complex argument.

edwardmurphy wrote:Please. We didn't have an ultra-liberal President. Obama was a centrist...

Way to back up your argument.

Ed,

This would explain why you don't think you're a leftist. If you think Obama is/was a centrist, you think moderate begins all the way to the left.

But at least you're a consistently delusional leftist.

Ok, you guys seem pretty sure of yourselves. Can you explain to me why you think Obama was so far left? Which of his policies are we talking about? Please, be specific.

Philip wrote:But some people don't like ANYTHING he does - because he's not ultra liberal or progressive in outlook. And many of us who have problems with various things about him, things he's done - we have far more problems with the sensibilities of the left and Democratic party. Trump is not the best representative of many conservatives. But they had no real choice.

But most people don't like him because he's demented. I would rather have any president we have ever had with the possible exception of James Buchanan than Trump, and actually Buchanan had a heck of a lot more foreign policy experience than Trump. Trump may get us in the way of something much worse than the Civil War.

edwardmurphy wrote:Ok, you guys seem pretty sure of yourselves. Can you explain to me why you think Obama was so far left? Which of his policies are we talking about? Please, be specific.

Iran
Syria
Israel
Healthcare
Trade
Welfare state
Etc, etc, etc, etc ....

Really?

Ed,

Since you're a newbie when it comes to leftist/progressive beliefs and policies, here's the basics for you:
http://www.diffen.com/difference/Left_W ... Right_Wing

If you need an explanation to which of Obama's beliefs and policies fit the left-wing side, you really don't have a clue.

Byblos wrote: Iran
Syria
Israel
Healthcare
Trade
Welfare state
Etc, etc, etc, etc ....

What about them?

Iran? He tried to bring them into the international community in hopes that it would have a moderating effect on their outlook and give them a reason not to try and build nuclear weapons. For some reason a lot of people freaked out about that, as if he also melted down our bombers, cruise missiles, and drones. He didn't though, so the unwritten clause in the deal was that we could still bomb the Hell out of them any time we got the urge, same as always. But apparently that was liberal and wrong. So what should he have done? What would a conservative have done?

Syria? Rather than acting unilaterally, like the dictator the Republicans pretended he was, Obama asked Congress to authorize military force. Congress gauged the national mood - overwhelmingly against military intervention - and said no. And just so were clear, the Democrats split. It was the Republicans who overwhelmingly rejected the use of force. So what should Obama have done? And what part of his actions were rooted in progressivism?

Israel? As far as I know he continued to give them huge gobs of money and weapons and guarantee their right to exist while pressuring them to be more reasonable in their dealings with the Palestinians. I never really understood what all the crying was about there.

You mention healthcare, but the reality is that the ACA is a Republican bill that was put through as a compromise between liberal and conservative Democrats. Progressives didn't want the ACA, they wanted single payer. They got behind it, because that's how our partisan system works, but they didn't like it.

Trade? What, international trade agreements and globalism? That's was a key component of the Republican platform for years. Right up until Trump won the nomination, in fact.

The welfare state? Ok, fine, Obama was a progressive, so yes, he cared about peoples' welfare and that was reflected in his policies. But according to the conservative punditry Obama was slightly to the right of Lenin and Marx. That's [nonsense]. As I said, he's a centrist Democrat. That puts him to the right of Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, and left of Joe Manchin.

So to be clear, I'm not saying Obama was a conservative, because that would be ridiculous. I'm saying that he was a mainstream Democrat and his politics were, generally speaking, a bit left of center.

RickD wrote:Ed,

Since you're a newbie when it comes to leftist/progressive beliefs and policies, here's the basics for you:
http://www.diffen.com/difference/Left_W ... Right_Wing

If you need an explanation to which of Obama's beliefs and policies fit the left-wing side, you really don't have a clue.

This makes me think that you're having trouble finding specific examples, so you just resorted to sarcasm.

edwardmurphy wrote:

RickD wrote:Ed,

Since you're a newbie when it comes to leftist/progressive beliefs and policies, here's the basics for you:
http://www.diffen.com/difference/Left_W ... Right_Wing

If you need an explanation to which of Obama's beliefs and policies fit the left-wing side, you really don't have a clue.

This makes me think that you're having trouble finding specific examples, so you just resorted to sarcasm.

Nope. Just look at his beliefs, policies, and policies he was pushing for. Then look at the link. He's on the left side of left wing.

If you really need me to make a list, then you're really not paying attention. And, seeing how you disagree with what Byblos listed, I'm not confident you really have any idea what it means to be left-wing. You think left is moderate.