Evidence for God from Science

If Jesus is God and not God's son.

God is beyond temptation. So how could God be tempted by Satan 40/40 while walking the earth if Jesus was God?

Matthew 4:

"Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me."

How could Satan "give" God what was God's to begin with? And why would God "take the bait" for something as puny as the kingdoms of the world at that time.

Doesn't make sense. Unless Jesus was the son of God and not actually God. I.E. two separate deities. The father is greater than the Son. So for the son it was temptation. Because Jesus was the Son of God. Assigned to humanity as our savior.

Everyone who says the son of God = God .... is forgetting the Father. The Jews do not accept Christ but at least they do not forget who God is.

Blessed: If Jesus is God and not God's son.

God is beyond temptation. So how could God be tempted by Satan 40/40 while walking the earth if Jesus was God?

Easy - because Jesus was ALSO fully a man, while still fully God. While for the period upon earth, He humbled Himself to take on the flesh of a human being. And it was Jesus' flesh which was tempted, and was His perfection as God that allowed Him to resist the temptation. Not only that, but in going through such temptations as also a man, Jesus fully understood what temptations men go through - making Him the perfect sacrifice to pay for our sins.

Hebrews 4: 5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,1 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, 3 being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

ONLY God NEVER sins - so Jesus was not JUST a man, but also God, and perfect.

Blessed: How could Satan "give" God what was God's to begin with? And why would God "take the bait" for something as puny as the kingdoms of the world at that time.

Read this: https://www.gotquestions.org/Satan-god-world.html

Blessed: Doesn't make sense. Unless Jesus was the son of God and not actually God. I.E. two separate deities. The father is greater than the Son. So for the son it was temptation. Because Jesus was the Son of God. Assigned to humanity as our savior.

And this: https://www.gotquestions.org/Father-greater-I.html

Blessed: Everyone who says the son of God = God .... is forgetting the Father. The Jews do not accept Christ but at least they do not forget who God is.

It is the Jews denial that Jesus is God / the promised Messiah (Isaiah 9:6: "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Fatherr, Prince of Peace." AND Matthew 1:23: "“Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).

Know of any other child EVER born that Scripture said would be "Mighty GOD???!!!"

So, this child the Jews rejected, who they crucified, was the Messiah / God promised - and as Jesus is also "part" of God, as are the Father and the Holy Spirit, then to reject any one Person in the Trinity is to reject God Himself! John 1: "1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

So, in John 1, this "Word" who "was God" came to live amongst men (verse 14).

First off, Satan didn't know who or what Jesus was.
Second, the devil trying to tempt Jesus is not the same as Jesus being tempted.
Third, since he was fully man as well, His temptation was important so that we would know that He knows what it is like to be tempted.


All that aside, you seem to have issues with Jesus having the same nature as His father, ie: being God.
Why?

John says He is God, Paul says he is God, Jesus is called creator ( by Paul) and everlasting Father ( By Isaiah), All creation was through Him and For Him.
How can anyone forget The Father since Son and Father are ONE? to see/think/remember/worship one is to worship both.

Can I ask you something?
Do you believe that at one time, there was only The Father and not The Son?

PaulSacramento wrote:First off, Satan didn't know who or what Jesus was.

I'm not so sure about that. That passage in Revelation, that said the woman who gave birth to a baby that the dragon wanted, sure seems to be Jesus. The dragon as you know is Satan.
Also, the fact that satan knows scripture would mean he'd see the prophecies leading to Jesus. If the 3 magi and Herod knew what's up, most likely the devil knew too.

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:First off, Satan didn't know who or what Jesus was.

I'm not so sure about that. That passage in Revelation, that said the woman who gave birth to a baby that the dragon wanted, sure seems to be Jesus. The dragon as you know is Satan.
Also, the fact that satan knows scripture would mean he'd see the prophecies leading to Jesus. If the 3 magi and Herod knew what's up, most likely the devil knew too.

If Satan knew that Jesus was the Son of God, the one that created him along with all the other divine beings, why would he think he could tempt him?

PaulSacramento wrote:

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:First off, Satan didn't know who or what Jesus was.

I'm not so sure about that. That passage in Revelation, that said the woman who gave birth to a baby that the dragon wanted, sure seems to be Jesus. The dragon as you know is Satan.
Also, the fact that satan knows scripture would mean he'd see the prophecies leading to Jesus. If the 3 magi and Herod knew what's up, most likely the devil knew too.

If Satan knew that Jesus was the Son of God, the one that created him along with all the other divine beings, why would he think he could tempt him?

First look at what the Greek word Tempt means in Luke 4:1-13 and you will find it has several meanings and not just one. Look at these meanings below and you will see a basic meaning is to test, try, and note who is doing the testing in Luke chapter Four.

AMG Theological Complete Word Study Dictionary defines the word temp (G#3985) used in Luke 4:2 to mean:

... to know what a person's weakness or strength is and to make it manifest to the one being tempted (2 Co 13:5, "examine"). Satan tempts to show someone unapproved.

Thayer's Definitionis as follows: G#3985 πειράζω peirazō

1) to try whether a thing can be done
1a) to attempt, endeavour
2) to try, make trial of, test: for the purpose of ascertaining his quantity, or what he thinks, or how he will behave himself
2a) in a good sense
2b) in a bad sense, to test one maliciously, craftily to put to the proof his feelings or judgments
2c) to try or test one’s faith, virtue, character, by enticement to sin
2c1) to solicit to sin, to tempt
2c1a) of the temptations of the devil
2d) after the OT usage
2d2) men are said to tempt God by exhibitions of distrust, as though they wished to try whether he is not justly distrusted
2d3) by impious or wicked conduct to test God’s justice and patience, and to challenge him, as it were to give proof of his perfections

AMG shows the definition as proving to one they are unapproved for the task. Thayer brings out the meaning of testing and in trying to test God's justice, patience, in order to stop Jesus from carrying out his task.

Do not forget, the demon Legion knew who Jesus was and so did demons he cast out so Satan knew who Jesus was and understood more than we humans will admit too on this matter.

The Devil was challenging Jesus to deny who he is, as the Word YHWH come in the weakness of Human flesh to entrap God to go counter against God-his own standards, character, and nature.

1 Co 2:7,8 Concerns the the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for redemption and not to whom Jesus is but rather the wisdom of the cross. If the rulers of the ages knew it was for redemption of humanity, they would not have had the cross happen. That Mystery is explain in Thayer's definition 2d3 - "God was allowing impious - wicked conduct to test His justice and patience, and to challenge him, as it were to give proof of God's perfections..." Get it?

There is another meaning as well as to the testing of Jesus in the wilderness going on besides the obvious one most folks know, and the one I mentioned above, and the other that most in the modern church world do not know at all. What is that?

Back in Genesis chapters 3, 6 and 11 concerning Jesus crushing satan's head, the fallen angels, and Nimrod and the establishment of the ancient pagan religious systems which were the worship of fallen angels began and sacrifice to demons stated. Satan had a plan to stop Jesus from crushing his power.

His rebellious minions taught the arts of sorcery/divination to open a channel to communicate with human beings. They corrupted humanity. One of Satan's head fallen leader was known as Azazel in the Bible - the Scapegoat and was sentenced to the lowest hell forever. The deal was, he would cover, pay the price for Satan's sin, so that one day, if Satan overtrhew God, he would be sprung from Prison of Hell.

He was the main corrupter of humanity and his craft to corrupt humanity was missed as he was confined into hell forever. So Azazel's underlings known as Nanna, Ishtar, and Ishtar's twin would take over the corrpting of humanity by making a human king who would be the mouth piece for Azazel to finish the job of destroying humanity to go after God himself.

Nimrod was that archetype of that being - a man - used as a conjuring tool so Azazel can live through. He was called Nebo in Babylonian lore, aka Dumuzi, aka Tammuz. see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tammuz_(mythology)

Inanna aka Ishtar wants to restore back to life, not her husband (Because fallen angels and angelic beings are neither male or female) but the Head, Azazel, the commander of their order in Satan's rebellion. That being wanted to be able to bring Azazel out of the abyss to speak and act through a human being most likely the false prophet.

Why is that so important with the testing of Jesus in Luke 4:1-11?

Answer, to turn Jesus into that role, in other words convert God, the second person of the Trinity, to do Satan's will; thus, exalting his/Satan's throne above God's therefore stopping his own downfall and laps around the lake of fire. Don't believe me, well, look at the kingdoms of the world devil offer Jesus in exchange for what?

The Devil failed and was goaded to kill Jesus on the cross thus exposed and Judged as Jesus mentions in the bible clearly enough. Do your own research it is out there...

This next - takes us to Revelation and the Anti-Christ and false Prophet as these two characters fit the bill of Nebo as Azazel's mouthpiece etc and etc. The whore of Babylon is Ishtar, aka Inanna, aka Astarte...

If you do not grasp the basic cosmology of the ancient pagan religions of the middle east as they pertain to fallen angels and spiritual warfare one will not see the truths in the symbols used in books like Daniel and Revelation and grasp what it is plainly saying. This is not taught in Bible schools, yet the early Church fathers understood this.

Justin Martyr in "The Discourse to the Greeks" goes through this, why was this info left for us about Zeus, and his son Apollo etc and etc?

Well same story line and Apollo was known as the destroyer and a derivative of his name in found in Rev 17:8 transliterated as destruction or destroyer note Rev 11:7 too.

Rev 9:11 NASB, "They have as king over them, the angel of the abyss; his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in the Greek he has the name Apollyon."

So, you can see the attempted escape plan even in the book of Revelation and a derivative of name Apollo - Apollyon as well.

Too bad people wast so much time defending the Sethite view and/or the human Leader Views of Genesis chapter six. Miss it with Nimrod, miss it with Nebuchadnezzar who fancied himself as Nebo...Nimrod... and who did Alexander the Great fancy himself to be before he died?

Oh well, gave enough food for thought and with that, you all will have to do your own research to discover the sources, not going to waste my time, have them, no need to cite them all. They are plentiful...
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The Devil is blinded by his own immense pride - this is why he led the rebellion in heaven.

Read Ezekiel 28:11–19 - alludes also to the devil, and not just the king of Tyre:

11 Moreover, the word of the Lord came to me: 12 “Son of man, raise a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and say to him, Thus says the Lord God:

“You were the signet of perfection,[a]
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13
You were in Eden, the garden of God;
every precious stone was your covering,
sardius, topaz, and diamond,
beryl, onyx, and jasper,
sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle;
and crafted in gold were your settings
and your engravings.[c]
On the day that you were created
they were prepared.
14
You were an anointed guardian cherub.
I placed you;[d] you were on the holy mountain of God;
in the midst of the stones of fire you walked.
15
You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created,
till unrighteousness was found in you.
16
In the abundance of your trade
you were filled with violence in your midst, and you sinned;
so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God,
and I destroyed you,[e] O guardian cherub,
from the midst of the stones of fire.
17
Your heart was proud because of your beauty;
you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor.
I cast you to the ground;
I exposed you before kings,
to feast their eyes on you.
18
By the multitude of your iniquities,
in the unrighteousness of your trade
you profaned your sanctuaries;
so I brought fire out from your midst;
it consumed you,
and I turned you to ashes on the earth
in the sight of all who saw you.
19
All who know you among the peoples
are appalled at you;
you have come to a dreadful end
and shall be no more forever.”

In addition to other responses, you'd fair well to do some research Blessings as noone here can convince you otherwise if you are already pre-convinced for whatever reason that Jesus cannot be God. Rather it must be from a place of your own openness and willingness to engage with orthodox Christian doctrine.

As orthodoxy would have it, and for good reasons, Jesus is said to possess both human and divine natures, each fully so. We have some clues in Philippians 2:5-8 with how the two come together, where while Jesus possessed the divine nature, emptied himself of such power when taking on human form. Jesus therefore was subservient to the Father, and had no power except that it be granted to Him while on Earth.

During Satan's temptation, we see Jesus not really being tested with earthly stuff, but the challenge runs much, much deeper. Christ's identity is being tested, He is being tested as the Son of God, the prophecied Messiah. Such is suggestive to me that Jesus, given what was emptied of Himself when taking upon human form, had to learn about His own identity.

Blessed wrote:If Jesus is God and not God's son.

God is beyond temptation. So how could God be tempted by Satan 40/40 while walking the earth if Jesus was God?

Matthew 4:

"Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me."

How could Satan "give" God what was God's to begin with? And why would God "take the bait" for something as puny as the kingdoms of the world at that time.

Doesn't make sense. Unless Jesus was the son of God and not actually God. I.E. two separate deities. The father is greater than the Son. So for the son it was temptation. Because Jesus was the Son of God. Assigned to humanity as our savior.

Everyone who says the son of God = God .... is forgetting the Father. The Jews do not accept Christ but at least they do not forget who God is.

This is a parody written to Jehovah Witnesses you might find interesting.You should probably have your bible out or pen and paper ready so that you write these verses down to look them up to read and study them.
Jehovah. For you.
https://youtu.be/5qT2wpjS7SU

PaulSacramento wrote:

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:First off, Satan didn't know who or what Jesus was.

I'm not so sure about that. That passage in Revelation, that said the woman who gave birth to a baby that the dragon wanted, sure seems to be Jesus. The dragon as you know is Satan.
Also, the fact that satan knows scripture would mean he'd see the prophecies leading to Jesus. If the 3 magi and Herod knew what's up, most likely the devil knew too.

If Satan knew that Jesus was the Son of God, the one that created him along with all the other divine beings, why would he think he could tempt him?

I was thinking this would be asked.
He's a sore loser, that's why. An insane, foolish, sore loser pumped up on pride, which was the cause of his fall. Hellbent on doing evil, hell is the place prepared for him and the devils. As a side note, I wonder why God didn't give them redemption? Or did He, and they rejected it? It doesn't say.

I don't know..I mean, the demons knew who Jesus was after He started doing the miracles and such but the temptation was before all that.
There is no reason to believe that Satan and his minions knew of God's master plan and I think the temptation was just that, a test to see who this "Jesus" really was.
The assumption that Satan isn't very smart or so arrogant that he thinks he can beat God, the one that created him along with all else.
Satan is OUR adversary and, be default, God's BUT I don't think that Satan views himself as the "bag guy" since he accuses US before God.
Even in his rebellion it wasn't so much against God but against God's love for us, that we are undeserving of it and to be God's image barers.
He doesn't want to give up what he thinks is his, our world.
He believes we are undeserving of God's grace.

I think that if Satan didn't know Jesus was God, it would be surprising. He certainly highly suspected it, as he had zeroed in on this one, then-unremarkable man. But Satan also had to know of the prophecies of the child to be born, and WHERE, and that He would be considered Holy God. He certainly was in some way responsible for all of the children put to death in the vicinity of Bethlehem. Did NO demon see the night sky filled with angels announcing Jesus' birth? Did he not know of the star that guided the wise men? Satan knew of all of these things, and no doubt had been watchful of the child born in Bethlehem. And if the Matthew 4 temptation account is chronological in time, how then would Satan have gone to this one, poor Jewish carpenter? And while Satan could inspire murder, he obviously had certain constraints upon what he could do to Jesus, the Apostles, and those within God's plans.

Suspected yes, intrigued for sure, but, and I am playing devil's advocate here (pardon the pun), if he KNEW, then he would have known NOT to challenge, not to tempt because he knew he would lose.
It certainly seems that there are constraints over satan and his legion ( subject for another thread) but if that is the case, that there are things they can't do, why not things that they can't/don't know?

Paul: "... if he KNEW, then he would have known NOT to challenge, not to tempt because he knew he would lose."

Well, one would think he would have known he'd lose - but then again he absolutely KNEW who God was and of his power when he led the rebellion in Heaven - didn't stop him then. Later, a pathetic, evil creature wandering the earth after being thrown from Heaven, he'd still not learned, still thought he could at least inflict some ultimate revenge and thwart God's plans for the creature Satan no doubt felt far inferior to himself, and certainly not worthy of the love of God. Why did he rebel and then after his exile, STILL not realize he could not win? I'd say it is because we cannot imagine the pride of such an evil being - as that blinds him to reality. Of course, the demons questioned Jesus about being tortured before their TIME - showing the demonic fully knows of their ultimate fate - as Satan clearly does.

Revelation 12 relates: "But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!" This would seem to show that Satan's wrath at realizing he was already ultimately defeated was simultaneous with his arrival on earth. So, he KNEW he could not defeat God's plans. But his rage and hatred are so great that, even with that knowledge, he desires to destroy all of the plans of God - so, whether also blinded by pride, he is still determined to try to defeat God's love for His people.

Philip wrote:

Paul: "... if he KNEW, then he would have known NOT to challenge, not to tempt because he knew he would lose."

Well, one would think he would have known he'd lose - but then again he absolutely KNEW who God was and of his power when he led the rebellion in Heaven - didn't stop him then. Later, a pathetic, evil creature wandering the earth after being thrown from Heaven, he'd still not learned, still thought he could at least inflict some ultimate revenge and thwart God's plans for the creature Satan no doubt felt far inferior to himself, and certainly not worthy of the love of God. Why did he rebel and then after his exile, STILL not realize he could not win? I'd say it is because we cannot imagine the pride of such an evil being - as that blinds him to reality. Of course, the demons questioned Jesus about being tortured before their TIME - showing the demonic fully knows of their ultimate fate - as Satan clearly does.

Revelation 12 relates: "But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!" This would seem to show that Satan's wrath at realizing he was already ultimately defeated was simultaneous with his arrival on earth. So, he KNEW he could not defeat God's plans. But his rage and hatred are so great that, even with that knowledge, he desires to destroy all of the plans of God - so, whether also blinded by pride, he is still determined to try to defeat God's love for His people.

Indeed, yet he never strikes out at God.
At His creation, yes, His angels, for sure, His chosen people, yes, but not at God directly.