Evidence for God from Science

I wonder how many people who didn't vote against Trump wish they had and how many people who didn't vote for Trump wish they had?

ultimate777 wrote:I wonder how many people who didn't vote against Trump wish they had and how many people who didn't vote for Trump wish they had?

I don't see how any Christian can now doubt their vote for Trump.I mean just based on how he has given the church back its free speech is more than any other party or President has done ever.Donald Trump understands that the church has lost its effectiveness when it comes to politics and he actually wants Christians to get involved in politics because he knows we can make a powerful political impact politically.

But he cannot make us but he has given the church the tools it needs to make a real impact politically and yet half of all Christians seem to be taking it for granted or just not realizing what Trump has actually done for the church.

Especially when the christian church has been so attacked by liberalism to where Christians are afraid of their own shadow,afraid to take a stand because it is controversial,etc,or they'll lose their tax exempt status to where money is more important than taking a stand.

But Christian ministries can actually preach from the pulpit about sin and even endorse political candidates and can make a political case for voting for God-fearing people for our leaders and not lose their tax-exempt status,thanks to Donald Trump.

This is huge that many in the church are overlooking and yet they sit around and point out all of the sin and evil in America,even claiming that God is angry at America and is going to pour out judgment on America,etc while they sit there not lifting a finger to change anything. God is angry at them too,not the world,but Christians who refuse to take a stand against the evil and immorality we all see. And Christians are the majority in this country and we could make a positive impact on America,and yet we have'nt.We have allowed evil to push us around,instead of the other way around.

U777: I wonder how many people who didn't vote against Trump wish they had and how many people who didn't vote for Trump wish they had?

Well, while it's not an indication God thinks Trump is a great guy, we do know, however, that HE is the one Who ultimately put him in office - maybe he gave us a combination of what we collectively need PLUS what we actually deserve?

BTW, Ultimate, you might feel a bit more at peace about things if you more so viewed events, circumstances and our well being more through a spiritual lens, than a political one. We were never promised political peace on earth - so why should we expect it? And why would we ever hope for peace to come through what it cannot ever produce, except perhaps temporarily?

Philip wrote:

U777: I wonder how many people who didn't vote against Trump wish they had and how many people who didn't vote for Trump wish they had?

Well, while it's not an indication God thinks Trump is a great guy, we do know, however, that HE is the one Who ultimately put him in office - maybe he gave us a combination of what we collectively need PLUS what we actually deserve?

BTW, Ultimate, you might feel a bit more at peace about things if you more so viewed events, circumstances and our well being more through a spiritual lens, than a political one. We were never promised political peace on earth - so why should we expect it? And why would we ever hope for peace to come through what it cannot ever produce, except perhaps temporarily?

The Russians are coming in a few days, Philip, get out of the Fuhrerbunker while you still can. You know what they have in store for you. Leave The Big Man to his fate. Head west the British and Americans have nothing against you.

Uh oh. Religion and politics.

I voted for Trump. My only issue is that he doesn't seem to be more radical in doing what he was elected to.

He was not elected to tweet about the NFL, fake news, Obama, the election, white house drama or start a war.

He was elected as a populist for a radical change. The first populist President in American history as matter of fact. I know things take time and he is being blocked at every turn by the pond scum in D.C. but he needs to get more radical doing what he was elected to do.

Also.. I noticed .... as have others .... Allot of people .... Everyone .... said Merry Christmas this year. Not "Happy Holidays" or some other such culturally debasing PC term. Not sure why Trunp would get any credit for this but oddly enough it's something myself and others noticed and I was very happy this year to hear so many strangers saying Merry Christmas.

Ultimate: The Russians are coming in a few days, Philip, get out of the Fuhrerbunker while you still can. You know what they have in store for you. Leave The Big Man to his fate. Head west the British and Americans have nothing against you.

Guess you don't believe what Scripture says about Who installs kings and leaders?

Philip wrote:

Ultimate: The Russians are coming in a few days, Philip, get out of the Fuhrerbunker while you still can. You know what they have in store for you. Leave The Big Man to his fate. Head west the British and Americans have nothing against you.

Guess you don't believe what Scripture says about Who installs kings and leaders?

Some no-goodnicks asked Jesus a question and Matthew 22:15-22 is what happened.

Not exactly a direct answer.

ultimate777 wrote:

Philip wrote:

Ultimate: The Russians are coming in a few days, Philip, get out of the Fuhrerbunker while you still can. You know what they have in store for you. Leave The Big Man to his fate. Head west the British and Americans have nothing against you.

Guess you don't believe what Scripture says about Who installs kings and leaders?

Some no-goodnicks asked Jesus a question and Matthew 22:15-22 is what happened.

Not exactly a direct answer.

Romans 13:1

RickD wrote:

ultimate777 wrote:

Philip wrote:

Ultimate: The Russians are coming in a few days, Philip, get out of the Fuhrerbunker while you still can. You know what they have in store for you. Leave The Big Man to his fate. Head west the British and Americans have nothing against you.

Guess you don't believe what Scripture says about Who installs kings and leaders?

Some no-goodnicks asked Jesus a question and Matthew 22:15-22 is what happened.

Not exactly a direct answer.

Romans 13:1

And the interesting thing about this passage is...
Care to guess who the Caesar was at the time Paul wrote this admonition?
His beastliness, Nero Caesar.

As Rick points out, God is sovereign, and whether we understand why or not, God has placed the rulers we have in power for a reason.

And John 19:11, Jesus responding to Pontius Pilate:

"Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above."

Note also that Jesus submitted Himself to Pilate's authority, per A) God having given Pilate his authority, and B) per God's divine plan for Jesus to die and then be resurrected.

No, we don't know why God gives some monsters' their authority or position - but then again, we don't know what God does, nor His plans. We can know that God's plans are for the good of those who love Him, or eventually will love Him.

DBowling wrote:

RickD wrote:

ultimate777 wrote:

Philip wrote:

Ultimate: The Russians are coming in a few days, Philip, get out of the Fuhrerbunker while you still can. You know what they have in store for you. Leave The Big Man to his fate. Head west the British and Americans have nothing against you.

Guess you don't believe what Scripture says about Who installs kings and leaders?

Some no-goodnicks asked Jesus a question and Matthew 22:15-22 is what happened.

Not exactly a direct answer.

Romans 13:1

And the interesting thing about this passage is...
Care to guess who the Caesar was at the time Paul wrote this admonition?
His beastliness, Nero Caesar.

As Rick points out, God is sovereign, and whether we understand why or not, God has placed the rulers we have in power for a reason.

No He has not. Sometimes God intervenes, sometimes he does not. Sometimes it's just good ol' free will that determines who comes into office. Unless it's rigged of course.

Stu wrote:

DBowling wrote:

RickD wrote:

ultimate777 wrote:

Philip wrote:
Guess you don't believe what Scripture says about Who installs kings and leaders?

Some no-goodnicks asked Jesus a question and Matthew 22:15-22 is what happened.

Not exactly a direct answer.

Romans 13:1

And the interesting thing about this passage is...
Care to guess who the Caesar was at the time Paul wrote this admonition?
His beastliness, Nero Caesar.

As Rick points out, God is sovereign, and whether we understand why or not, God has placed the rulers we have in power for a reason.

No He has not. Sometimes God intervenes, sometimes he does not. Sometimes it's just good ol' free will that determines who comes into office. Unless it's rigged of course.

I have to disagree with you strongly on this one...
God is sovereign... period... Scripture teaches that clearly.
Romans 13:1 which Rick pointed to makes this very clear and unambigious

Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

Now the philosophical question you bring up deals with the relationship between the sovereignty of God and the free will of man.
There are those who do not think that both can coexist.
I disagree. I believe that Scripture teaches both the sovereignty of God and the free will of man.
Since man is restricted to linear time and God exists and operates outside of time, I do not believe God's sovereignty is in any way limited by man's free choice.

So does man have free choice?
Yes
Is God sovereign?
Yes
Are all authorities (both good and evil) "established by God"?
Yes
Does God allow people to pay the consequences (both good and bad) of their choices?
Yes
Does God at times intervene in supernatural ways?
Yes

DB: Now the philosophical question you bring up deals with the relationship between the sovereignty of God and the free will of man.
There are those who do not think that both can coexist.
I disagree. I believe that Scripture teaches both the sovereignty of God and the free will of man.
Since man is restricted to linear time and God exists and operates outside of time, I do not believe God's sovereignty is in any way limited by man's free choice.

If man does not have free will, then his sin cannot be blamed upon him freely choosing to commit it. Either a person freely chooses a sinful action, or it was chosen for him. God does not sin, nor does He cause it. And why would God be angry at men for sinning and rejecting Him, unless they freely choose these things. Further, if God caused sins of men, then why would He be angry? Why would he expect and command that people avoid sin?

Scripture teaches both: That God is sovereign over EVERYTHING, that man has free will (but not unfettered free will - we can't fly, etc.), but as He wants us to FREELY choose to love Him, and as He didn't desire to create mindless "robots," thus He allowed humans free will - which meant that, at some point after they came into existence, men would begin to sin. But God always foreknew that, and He also always had a plan to deal with that. Just as Judas freely betrayed Jesus, and God always knew if, given the opportunity, that he would. But God walking the earth as Jesus, could have eliminated Judas from those He called. Why? Because God can also use evil persons and their plans to bring about HIS plans. The Crucifixion occurred precisely when God desired it to - it was no happenstance. The present time will end when and exactly as God desires it to - as men are often God's vessels to accomplish His purposes and players in the events that lead to their accomplishment. It doesn't mean that men who freely choose evil, don't have a far different intent in their evil plans than God does - no, they choose their evil FREELY. And God sovereignly accomplishes, no matter the plans of a man.

DB: So does man have free choice?
Yes
Is God sovereign?
Yes
Are all authorities (both good and evil) "established by God"?
Yes
Does God allow people to pay the consequences (both good and bad) of their choices?
Yes
Does God at times intervene in supernatural ways?
Yes

DB checked all the boxes correctly, per Scripture!

How did Satan come to exist and was it known what he would do and could he have been allowed not to come into existence
or did his creator simply have no choice?

777: How did Satan come to exist

He's a created being - read up on it.

777: and was it known what he would do

Of course - God is all-knowing - what does that tell you?

777: and could he have been allowed not to come into existence
or did his creator simply have no choice?

Your questions appear to indicate you've not studied Scripture sufficiently - else, why these "allowed" and "no choice" questions?