Evidence for God from Science

Everything? Nothing?

Good question...

If you're defining "responsible" as "having control over", then the answer is everything.

RickD wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:38 pm If you're defining "responsible" as "having control over", then the answer is everything.

So if you get raped, its Gods fault?

Ontologically, God is responsible for everything in existence and sustaining all that exists in existence in a trustworthy, stable and reliable manner.

Morally, God is not responsible in that God did not choose or desire moral evil when it come to immoral actions, sin, perverseness and the like. God can be said to be responsible for evil in the sense of disasters, calamities, diseases (it is reasonable here to expect there is some good reason if God brings about such), allowing for the possibility of evil actions, our sinful actions and free choices to become a reality.

God sustains and upholds laws that allow evil actions to take place, and doesn't pull the rug out to stop such from happen even when people choose to commit most heinous and evil acts. It is here then, that God can be said to be responsible somuchas he allows free choice but there are also certain limits in place in this life e.g., physical limits and death.

So then... is there anything I missed you may have been thinking about? Sadly, my 10 yo niece had something bad happen to her. She asked why God allowed such to happen. I'm not sure about the answer she was given. It is one thing to give a theological response, but it can be another thing when face-to-face with evil to understand such personally.

As far as natural disasters go, then is God responsible?

I think about paul when he said that nature was groaning under the weight of sin... or something like that... so has sin affected the natural disasters, therefore God is not directly responsible?

Would like to get some non Christian poster's thoughts too.

Nessa wrote: ↑Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:12 am As far as natural disasters go, then is God responsible?

I think people overthink it. God has set in place a system of things, way in which the world works, which is a temporary world intended for specific purposes. God isn't going to turn that world upside down to necessarily preserve life, it isn't His intention or desire that this world permanently accomodate life (though some Christians think that God will restore this world with a new heavens and new earth, but for all intents and purposes we could probably call that a second world in any case).

So then, if you get caught in a storm, cyclone, floodwaters, volcano eruption, plague, get cancer or the the like -- all quite natural and physical things -- then God may/may not have had a direct intention. It could be, the person just got caught up in the natural consequences of things. It could be that God specifically willed as part of some fuller plan.

Nonetheless, whether "just caught up" or there is a "specific intention", there is nonetheless God's superintendence to it all. God can have this/that purpose to things that happen, which we in our limited view have no idea about. And, while some object to saying God brought about calamity as punishment for sin (often seen in Scripture), God may have planned before time to use the natural world to punish evil he foreknew, wipe out evil, but the desired end as I see would be the desire to bring about change in our heart, redeem and bring more of us to himself.

I like what CS Lewis said, "Pain insists upon being attended to. God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our consciences, but shouts in our pains. It is his megaphone to rouse a deaf world." Indeed, the natural world and disasters can be used as part of God's megaphone in a world or society that has become deaf to him.

Nessa wrote: I think about paul when he said that nature was groaning under the weight of sin... or something like that... so has sin affected the natural disasters, therefore God is not directly responsible?

I'm not so certain that verse is being understood correctly here. Nonetheless, I can work with that understanding of it.

My answer is that death was created as part of this world, because God foreknew humanity would sin and so this world needed to be temporary and have death so that God's redemptive plan for humanity could be fulfilled in Christ. If humanity had not sinned, there'd be no need for a temporary world, no need for death and no need for our redemption in Christ.

Consider Ephesians 1:

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.
11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will

Re: further theological thoughts on death, if you haven't read over my thoughts and are interested to, I'd refer to you my theology on the relationship between sin and death.