Dr. Gary Habermas on Near Death Experiences

[Philip]

Some of you may know that Habermas is considered on the world's most knowledgeable scholars concerning the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Christ. Here, in a fascinating interview, he weighs in on what he thinks about Near Death Expediences:

https://skeptiko.com/112-gary-habermas- ... rituality/

[Philip]

You just can't get any "deader" than this! https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/man- ... -td68bttnc

If a heart non-functioning for 18 hours isn't a indication of death - what IS?

[bippy123]

Great post Philip , heard that interview years ago on YouTube .
Alex really tried his best to get habermas to admit that ndes favored universalism but to his credit habermas didn't fall into that trap .

Alex tsakiris grew up in a Greek Orthodox household but if I could characterize his beliefs (very hard to do) I'd say he was an agnostic spiritualist . Even though he seemed very uncomfortable with the God evidence (as he did in his last interview with dr Jeffrey long )
He still wants to pursue it .

I would still characterize tsakiris as an anti Christian and religion spiritualist .

Bippy

[bippy123]

You just can't get any "deader" than this! https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/man- ... -td68bttnc

If a heart non-functioning for 18 hours isn't a indication of death - what IS?

Great find also Philip .this is showing us that even if the brain is inactive the brain cells are still viable with the potential to be brought back to normal function .

Another key date is July 2020 when the results for the aware 2 study are announced . If they get a few hits on the rotating images next to the ceiling it's gonna be the start of the time that materialism dies and spiritualism and science come together .

[bippy123]

Aware 2 is now being pushed to 2021 as they might be adding more research . This new research which could be or
Might not be part of aware 2 is causing some of the folks at the aware of aware blog to think he may already have some hits .

Is it a coincidence that Dr. Parnia , an agnostic , has had a slew of tv appearances and interviews in which he’s starting to all of a sudden sound like a dualist ?

Me thinks he knows something we don’t know

[PaulSacramento]

You just can't get any "deader" than this! https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/man- ... -td68bttnc

If a heart non-functioning for 18 hours isn't a indication of death - what IS?

Holy crap ! 18 hours !
What did the rest of the article say?

There is a "universalism" in NDE because, if we take the bible, all have a spirit and the spirit returns to God when we die.
There should be some sort of "similar experiences" for all NDE's because of that I assume.
Now the question of the non-believer VS believer spirit, that is tricky.
It makes sense that the spirit of the believer goes to God BUT at the same time, a non-believer that doesn't believe because they have doubts ( as opposed to the non-believer that wants nothing to do with God), maybe their spirit goes to God to.
Death and the spirit leaving us is NOT the same as the final judgment so, maybe, ALL spirits go to God and await Judgment day there.

[bippy123]

You just can't get any "deader" than this! https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/man- ... -td68bttnc

If a heart non-functioning for 18 hours isn't a indication of death - what IS?

Paul and Philip even though that’s an awesome link and cements that people in cardiac arrest are dead , in actuality the brain becomes non functional within 30 seconds of cardiac arrest .

This is why dr Sam Parnia said this about near death experiences happening during cardiac arrest .



Holy crap ! 18 hours !
What did the rest of the article say?

There is a "universalism" in NDE because, if we take the bible, all have a spirit and the spirit returns to God when we die.
There should be some sort of "similar experiences" for all NDE's because of that I assume.
Now the question of the non-believer VS believer spirit, that is tricky.
It makes sense that the spirit of the believer goes to God BUT at the same time, a non-believer that doesn't believe because they have doubts ( as opposed to the non-believer that wants nothing to do with God), maybe their spirit goes to God to.
Death and the spirit leaving us is NOT the same as the final judgment so, maybe, ALL spirits go to God and await Judgment day there.

Paul and Philip even though that’s an awesome link and cements that people in cardiac arrest are dead , in actuality the brain becomes non functional within 30 seconds of cardiac arrest .

This is why dr Sam Parnia said this about near death experiences happening during cardiac arrest .

Parnia has advocated for the use of the term "actual death experience" instead of near death experience (NDE), to describe human experiences that occur during a period of cardiac arrest. He has stated: “contrary to perception, death is not a specific moment but a potentially reversible process that occurs after any severe illness or accident causes the heart, lungs and brain to cease functioning. If attempts are made to reverse this process, it is referred to as ‘cardiac arrest’; however, if these attempts do not succeed it is called ‘death’. He has mostly studied those who have no heart beat and no detectable brain activity for periods of time and believes cardiac arrest is the optimal model to help understand the human experience of death.[2][17][1

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Parnia

[bippy123]

Parnia has stated in a recent interview that he believes that within the next 30-40 years that science will be able to detect consciousness which he believes now is outside the brain .

This is a bold prediction and shows how far he’s come from being an NDE sceptic to almost sounding like a dualist . This is leading some people to think that he may already have some hits in his aware 2 study but unfortunately for us the end of the study has been pushed from 2020 to 2021 and he is so hush hush that the suspense is killing me arghhhhhh.

He also still believes that the soul is a material substance that can be studied by natural science .this of course is coming from his stance as a materialist .

Remember just 12 years or so he was a guest speaker at the atheist sceptic magazine conference .for some reason he doesn’t seem to be welcomed there anymore

Geeeede I wonder why

[bippy123]

Here it is folks , his most recent interview .

“”So in short, we haven’t got the tools yet, or a machine that’s accurate enough to pick up your thoughts and show them to me. In the next couple of decades, I believe it will be discovered that we continue to exist after death, and that consciousness is in fact an independent entity.””

https://goop.com/wellness/health/when-i ... -evolving/

And this is coming from an agnostic folks who about 10 years ago said this in his skeptiko interview

http://skeptiko.com/sam-parnia-claims-n ... -illusion/

Like I said, if I was to base everything on the knowledge that I have currently of neuroscience, then the easiest explanation is that this is probably an illusion.”

Parnia Is the top NDE researcher in the world and it’s been so fun watching him slowly change his mind not because of his worldview but from the scientific evidence alone says something about that evidence