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Pope: GOD made people gay
Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 3:41 am
by Philip
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/05/21 ... loves.html
If this story is accurate as reported and the Pope believes gay people were created by God to be so, then what does he think about the denouncements of such behavior in Scripture, as to how God views gay people ACTING OUT their sexual self-identification? And is he getting ready to pronounce new Catholic teachings to wipe away the long-held CC teachings on this issue? And who is confused, God or the Pope?
Re: Pope: GOD made people gay
Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 6:45 am
by RickD
From the article:
The Los Angeles Times reported that the Vatican did not confirm the pope’s comments given that it was a private conversation.
The pope has upheld Catholic teaching on homosexuality, reiterating the church's opposition to same-sex relationships.
Looks like a typical anti-pope article. Posting an article about something that they can't confirm to be true. Sounds like shoddy journalism to me.
Re: Pope: GOD made people gay
Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 7:02 am
by Philip
The Pope's past comments are certainly in line with this guy's attestment as to what he was told by him. But let's see if he refutes it. Just like his last comments about hell - a PC statement was issued by the Vatican - but the pope was never quoted to have clearly addressed the issue, particularly as it was such a critical issue. But nothing would surprise me, as past popes have made up all kinds of unScriptural nonsense.
Re: Pope: GOD made people gay
Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 7:12 am
by RickD
And even if Cruz was accurate with what the pope said, being gay, or having an attraction to the same sex, certainly isn't the same as having gay sex. So again, even if it's an accurate account of the pope's words, he didn't condone homosexual behavior, as much as telling a guy that was abused by catholic priests, that God does love him.
Sounds more like the pope showing love to a guy who needs love.
Re: Pope: GOD made people gay
Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 7:31 am
by Philip
Rick: And even if Cruz was accurate with what the pope said, being gay, or having an attraction to the same sex, certainly isn't the same as having gay sex.
So again, even if it's an accurate account of the pope's words, he didn't condone homosexual behavior, as much as telling a guy that was abused by catholic priests, that God does love him.
Sounds more like the pope showing love to a guy who needs love.
No Rick - because it's not a mere matter of the pope saying God loves gay people, too. Of course He does. But the pope appears to have gone WAY beyond that, into very dangerous theological territory. It's interesting that there has not yet been a denial released by the Vatican.
IF the pope said what this man claims - and that might be inaccurate - we'll see - he claims that the pope asserted that
GOD made him gay, and that he should be happy with who he is / as he is (made to be). IF it's true, while its INTENT might be to show love and kindness to a person with an abused past - which is good - the pope's words are far from loving, as he would be perpetuating a lie that this guy probably already believed - that GOD made him gay, and thus homosexual relations are also how God created him to function sexually. Clearly, the implication is that God doesn't make mistakes - and that homosexuality is God-given. And so, if God MADE people gay, then homosexual unions are likewise normal and not sinful. If true, I'm sure the spin is that they have to be either married or in a committed relationship, or some such nonsense, to not be sin.
Re: Pope: GOD made people gay
Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 7:54 am
by BavarianWheels
Philip wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 7:31 am
Rick: And even if Cruz was accurate with what the pope said, being gay, or having an attraction to the same sex, certainly isn't the same as having gay sex.
So again, even if it's an accurate account of the pope's words, he didn't condone homosexual behavior, as much as telling a guy that was abused by catholic priests, that God does love him.
Sounds more like the pope showing love to a guy who needs love.
No Rick - because it's not a mere matter of the pope saying God loves gay people, too. Of course He does. But the pope appears to have gone WAY beyond that, into very dangerous theological territory. It's interesting that there has not yet been a denial released by the Vatican.
IF the pope said what this man claims - and that might be inaccurate - we'll see - he claims that the pope asserted that
GOD made him gay, and that he should be happy with who he is / as he is (made to be). IF it's true, while its INTENT might be to show love and kindness to a person with an abused past - which is good - the pope's words are far from loving, as he would be perpetuating a lie that this guy probably already believed - that GOD made him gay, and thus homosexual relations are also how God created him to function sexually. Clearly, the implication is that God doesn't make mistakes - and that homosexuality is God-given. And so, if God MADE people gay, then homosexual unions are likewise normal and not sinful. If true, I'm sure the spin is that they have to be either married or in a committed relationship, or some such nonsense, to not be sin.
Absolutely correct. If God made him/anyone gay, then being gay is PERFECT...unless you think God makes imperfection.
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Re: Pope: GOD made people gay
Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 10:42 am
by RickD
BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 7:54 am
Philip wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 7:31 am
Rick: And even if Cruz was accurate with what the pope said, being gay, or having an attraction to the same sex, certainly isn't the same as having gay sex.
So again, even if it's an accurate account of the pope's words, he didn't condone homosexual behavior, as much as telling a guy that was abused by catholic priests, that God does love him.
Sounds more like the pope showing love to a guy who needs love.
No Rick - because it's not a mere matter of the pope saying God loves gay people, too. Of course He does. But the pope appears to have gone WAY beyond that, into very dangerous theological territory. It's interesting that there has not yet been a denial released by the Vatican.
IF the pope said what this man claims - and that might be inaccurate - we'll see - he claims that the pope asserted that
GOD made him gay, and that he should be happy with who he is / as he is (made to be). IF it's true, while its INTENT might be to show love and kindness to a person with an abused past - which is good - the pope's words are far from loving, as he would be perpetuating a lie that this guy probably already believed - that GOD made him gay, and thus homosexual relations are also how God created him to function sexually. Clearly, the implication is that God doesn't make mistakes - and that homosexuality is God-given. And so, if God MADE people gay, then homosexual unions are likewise normal and not sinful. If true, I'm sure the spin is that they have to be either married or in a committed relationship, or some such nonsense, to not be sin.
Absolutely correct. If God made him/anyone gay, then being gay is PERFECT...unless you think God makes imperfection.
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Is someone born with a birth defect, "perfect" in your eyes? I guess you'd have to define "perfect".
Re: Pope: GOD made people gay
Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 10:47 am
by RickD
Philip wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 7:31 am
Rick: And even if Cruz was accurate with what the pope said, being gay, or having an attraction to the same sex, certainly isn't the same as having gay sex.
So again, even if it's an accurate account of the pope's words, he didn't condone homosexual behavior, as much as telling a guy that was abused by catholic priests, that God does love him.
Sounds more like the pope showing love to a guy who needs love.
No Rick - because it's not a mere matter of the pope saying God loves gay people, too. Of course He does. But the pope appears to have gone WAY beyond that, into very dangerous theological territory. It's interesting that there has not yet been a denial released by the Vatican.
IF the pope said what this man claims - and that might be inaccurate - we'll see - he claims that the pope asserted that
GOD made him gay, and that he should be happy with who he is / as he is (made to be). IF it's true, while its INTENT might be to show love and kindness to a person with an abused past - which is good - the pope's words are far from loving, as he would be perpetuating a lie that this guy probably already believed - that GOD made him gay, and thus homosexual relations are also how God created him to function sexually. Clearly, the implication is that God doesn't make mistakes - and that homosexuality is God-given. And so, if God MADE people gay, then homosexual unions are likewise normal and not sinful. If true, I'm sure the spin is that they have to be either married or in a committed relationship, or some such nonsense, to not be sin.
Philip,
That's quite a leap, even from an unsubstantiated article.
You're reading meaning into something the pope may or may not have said. Maybe the Cruz guy heard the pope say something that the pope didn't actually say. Maybe Cruz was taking the pope's words out of context, to justify his homosexual lifestyle.
We just don't know.
Re: Pope: GOD made people gay
Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 10:54 am
by BavarianWheels
RickD wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 10:42 am
Is someone born with a birth defect, "perfect" in your eyes? I guess you'd have to define "perfect".
Perfect: as when the Adam and Eve were created.
Is someone born with a birth DEFECT "perfect" in your eyes? Yes...more so if it is my child I procreated, however I think since you chose to use "defect", when know that you really don't mean perfect in a literal sense, but perfect as in a loving or loved sense.
The question here is not whether we believe our own children to be "perfect", but rather if God creates the imperfect or if God creates what He speaks against.
It's best not to build our own straw man arguments.
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Re: Pope: GOD made people gay
Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 11:40 am
by Philip
Rick: We just don't know.
I agree it's unverified. But IF he said it, it's a terrible thing and direction for the church. Again, he's made statements in this direction before. And so if he doesn't personally and clearly denounce it - it's now worldwide news - I would think it's a fairly safe bet that it's both what he said and thinks.
Re: Pope: GOD made people gay
Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 12:01 pm
by RickD
Philip wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 11:40 am
Rick: We just don't know.
I agree it's unverified. But IF he said it, it's a terrible thing and direction for the church. Again, he's made statements in this direction before. And so if he doesn't personally and clearly denounce it - it's now worldwide news - I would think it's a fairly safe bet that it's both what he said and thinks.
I agree, if he said it, and if he meant it as you claim. I'm just not making that leap. There's no evidence that he said it, much less meant it as you claim. So, I'll reserve judgement until he either verifies the article, or denies it.
Re: Pope: GOD made people gay
Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 1:17 pm
by BavarianWheels
This makes a second time that the pope says something controversial in the recent past behind closed doors...
There is No Hell
Seems the pope is consistent in saying one thing publically or as pope, and thinking something that differs with RCC theology...and this from the Vicar of Christ!
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Re: Pope: GOD made people gay
Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 5:54 pm
by Kurieuo
RickD wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 7:12 amSounds more like the pope showing love to a guy who needs love.
The priests weren't enough?
Re: Pope: GOD made people gay
Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 12:14 am
by Stu
BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 1:17 pm
This makes a second time that the pope says something controversial in the recent past behind closed doors...
There is No Hell
Seems the pope is consistent in saying one thing publically or as pope, and thinking something that differs with RCC theology...and this from the Vicar of Christ!
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He has also said "who am I to judge" in terms of gay people. So another instance were he doesn't say it is wrong. Sorry but this pope is an idiot.
Re: Pope: GOD made people gay
Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:16 am
by neo-x
Stu wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 12:14 am
BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 1:17 pm
This makes a second time that the pope says something controversial in the recent past behind closed doors...
There is No Hell
Seems the pope is consistent in saying one thing publically or as pope, and thinking something that differs with RCC theology...and this from the Vicar of Christ!
.
.
He has also said "who am I to judge" in terms of gay people. So another instance were he doesn't say it is wrong.
Sorry but this pope is an idiot.
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, 'Raca,' is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.