Evidence for God from Science

It has come to my attention, a while back, that creation IS a theory as well as evolution. If evolution is a theory with real science to back it and creation is a theory with "science" to back it, what then do we have? Does both cancel each other out making it impossible to find the origins of life and how all things came into existence? I know some people have turned from atheism like Anthony Flew because they found there had to be a designer, BUT then why do we still have people that isn't following Anthony Flew's footsteps as well as others? What do we REALLY have to work with?

Creation is not a theory, it is a fact. How else did all of this come to be here?

Evolution has nothing to back it but circumstantial speculation.

Science as such has no say about the reality of life, it is observation of God's work in action with some practical outcomes.

August wrote:Creation is not a theory, it is a fact. How else did all of this come to be here?

Evolution has nothing to back it but circumstantial speculation.

Science as such has no say about the reality of life, it is observation of God's work in action with some practical outcomes.

August, correct me if I am not making sense, or even sense with myself, but both sides, creation and evolution, has its pitfalls. Creation can go against evolution and evolution can go against creation. See, atheists can counter-claim a creationists discovery as well as a Christian can counter-claim and atheists discovery. Like the debate of weather or not the earth is a young earth or an old earth, science is making giant leeps forward and we are finding new things. I always thought that creation was a theory since my dad and mom, which both are good Christians, says that creation is too a theory since atheists can have logical arguments for going against creation and therefore you can't reach a final destination.

I understand where you are coming from.

About creation: Even atheist scientists believe that something cannot come from nothing. The universe came, according to science, from the big bang, which was essentially a big explosion from nothing. According to scientific theory, everything has a cause. It's a problem for the atheists, not for us, since we believe God created the universe.

I would love to hear some of the logical arguments against creation.

About evolution: Although creation and evolution are somewhat unrelated, they are sometimes lumped together as part of the bigger argument. The problem with evolution is in broad terms this: The evolutionists say: "If this is true, then that must be true, that is true so this is true." They use inductive reasoning to affirm evolution, making certain observed specificities into universalities. Also, they use a creationist base principle in their logic to try and prove evolution is true, namely that of the pre-existence of the universe as described above. Evolutionists cannot irrefutably prove that their theory is true, that is why it remains a theory, and has not become the law of evolution.

science is making giant leeps forward and we are finding new things.

Yes we are. However, as I said, science is merely a description of the laws God created in His general revelation, the universe. It does not tell us anything about where we come from, or the reality of life. It provides certain practical outcomes, like allowing us to fly and have medicine.

I agree with you August on that, but isn't creationism still partially a theory?

- Brian

On what basis do you say that creationism is a theory? We are here, aren't we?

Jokes aside, I'll need to know more on why you say that. Creationism is a theory in the minds of those who want to apply the same faulty inductive logic to it as they do to evolution.

August wrote:On what basis do you say that creationism is a theory? We are here, aren't we?

Jokes aside, I'll need to know more on why you say that. Creationism is a theory in the minds of those who want to apply the same faulty inductive logic to it as they do to evolution.

My parents told me that both creation and evolution are theory. I already knew evolution was a theory but not creation until they told me. They said it was a theory because it contradicts what the evolutionist side of it is and vice versa. I stay away from researching things myself because of some mental problems I got up in my head so that is why I ask these questions to people who are knowledgeable in creation vs. evolution and I can obtain answers directly.

My dear Brian,

No-one can tell you what to believe, not me, and not your parents. You have to trust God, that He will lead you to wisdom. Do your research, and ask us when you have any questions. You have to find out the truth for yourself, otherwise you will only get confused by hearing many opinions. Please PM me if you want to discuss this further. No pre-conceived problems should prohibit you from doing this.

I respectfully disagree with your parents. There is no such thing as the Theory of Creation. I'd be glad to address any specifics they may mention. To say that it's a theory purely because it opposes evolution is intellectually lazy, at the very least. Opposing sides are not necessarily at the same level, one can be a theory, the other position a law or hypothesis. The big bang for example, is a theory, but the opposing views of alternate universes or no singularity are hypothesis.

JesusFreak wrote:It has come to my attention, a while back, that creation IS a theory as well as evolution. If evolution is a theory with real science to back it and creation is a theory with "science" to back it, what then do we have?

From a scientific perspective I agree, that creation (aka Intelligent Design) is one working theory of the origin of life. A second theory is evolution...

So like you were saying, what are we left with? Well, certainly not with a definitive scientific answer about our origins. What we are left with is simply faith. It is through Faith that we recognize the authority and infallablity of God's Word. It's by Faith that I accept when the Bible says God created the Heaven's and Earth that God did in fact, create the Heaven's and Earth. Science can't even speak to Faith and belief in the supernatural, because by very definition the supernatural lies outside the realm of science - that of nature.

Now that's not to say that we shouldn't continue to learn... Eventually science will progress and eventually what we find will support (but likely never prove) that the universe was created and in doing so will help affirm our faith. I can state this with certainty because of my faith. So like August, to me creation is fact whether science has come to terms with it yet or not.

Okay, so, creation is a theory under scientific observation only but other than that, it isn't

JesusFreak wrote:Okay, so, creation is a theory under scientific observation only but other than that, it isn't

Is anything else the Bible says 'a theory?'

I'm Confused

Greetings to you all.

You do not need "scientific proof" that creation is a fact. Science, being true knowledge, can reinforce the fact, and science itself is a proof, of creation. Also keep in mind that think of creation as a "theory" will allow a shadow of doubt to enter your mind, and diminishes God's involvement in your heart and mind.

Science, as proof:
Every law is given, stablished, and prescribed for it's purpose. Science is such laws. A few of these such laws are known as Thermodynamics. These laws were stablished to guide us and keep us safe. And these laws are observable, and studied.

Law is proof (not theory) of a Lawgiver. It is nonsensical to assume that such a One only stablished law and not also what the law governs. Such is evidenced in our own government (American). We did not set up law for a country that was not ours, we established our own country, and we stablished our constitution, to govern that which we made. Authority is essential to stablish law.

I think what an "open mind" must realize is that you are left with a choice of two:

1) God [lovingly] created everything and stablished law [to guide us and keep us safe].

2) An [unknown] entity of [unknown] strength, [unknown] power, and [unknown] knowledge [for unknown reason(s)] created everything and stablished law.

The proof is that creation happened, what you have to decide is who or what created.

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 1 Corinthians 1:27-28

The Doc

The basics of creationism are not a theory. It's more of a belief. There's probably a better word for it but I don't know it. Some of the specific things we say about creation are theory. You could theorize that God made dogs before cats (just for a random example) as part of creationism. That part is theory, the idea that God made both is belief.

I also wanted to point out that the vast majority of scientists are evolutionist so of course science is making leaps and bounds towards substantiating evolution. However I would like to point out that there are a lot of scientist searching for a non-Big bang theory because it just doesn't work very well.

Felgar wrote:Is anything else the Bible says 'a theory?'

As I was saying, what the Bible gives us are beliefs not theories. However there are quite a few Christian based theories in the world deal with some of specifics that the Bible just doesn't give detail on.

I would also like to point out the creation "science" does not belong in quotes. It is real science. It simply isn't accepted by much of the scientific world because Christian scientists are a minority with opposing views.

Hope that helps someone.

Go Doc Go!!!