Evidence for God from Science

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:20 am If one believes that Revelations and the GOJ are from the same author, one must take THAT into account as well.

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:15 am Well, did John write revelations Before or after The Gospel?

Add to that the fact that the GOJ was not written BY John, but by his followers, then the question isn't just when John passed it on but also when they wrote it down.

DBowling: For me, early church historical evidence is pretty compelling that John the apostle wrote both the Gospel of John and Revelation.

I am also convinced that both John and Revelation were written before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
My opinion is based upon internal evidence from the biblical texts themselves, where John (John 5:2) and Revelation (Rev 17:9-11) refer to people or places as existing in the present that were either destroyed in 70 AD (John 5:2) or took place prior to 70 AD (Rev 17:10).

Philip wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:27 pm

DBowling: For me, early church historical evidence is pretty compelling that John the apostle wrote both the Gospel of John and Revelation.

I am also convinced that both John and Revelation were written before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
My opinion is based upon internal evidence from the biblical texts themselves, where John (John 5:2) and Revelation (Rev 17:9-11) refer to people or places as existing in the present that were either destroyed in 70 AD (John 5:2) or took place prior to 70 AD (Rev 17:10).

Except if John was referencing parallel warnings for our future, otherwise, what difference does it make to us, today, when John wrote either?

Now, if there were TWO Johns - as in also "John the Elder," that would tell us someone tampered with the text - least, with the Gospel of John.

Philip wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:46 pm Both Revelation and the Gospel of John have arguments for their dating that include arguments from silence concerning key events that would seem inconceivable to have been left out. The horrific persecutions by Nero, the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. The author of John identifies himself as an apostle and an eyewitness of events

John 21:24: "This is the disciple who is bearing witness about these things, and who has written these things, and we know that his testimony is true." He's a disciple. Identified as "John, the son of Zebedee. My ESV speculates the writing to be between 70 and 100 AD. It references the "Sea of Tiberias," which is the Sea of Galilee, but is the name used for it only near the end of the 1st century.

As for Revelation, early church fathers (including Justin Martyr, writing in 135-150 AD identifies John the Son of Zebedee as the one that also wrote the 4th Gospel.) It's pretty hard to believe that only 35 years later, Justin would have identified John incorrectly. Some think the warnings to the churches are prototypes that connect the Nero atrocities to a latter days persecution to come.

As for Ehrman - be suspicious of anything he says, as he has an anti-Christian agenda!

Christian2 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:20 am Analysis of the date of the Gospel of John by Daniel B. Wallace.

https://chab123.wordpress.com/2014/10/3 ... r-gospels/

Click on Gospel of John:

https://bible.org/seriespage/gospel-joh ... nt-outline

Wallace is convinced that the Gospel of John was written before 70AD; however he believes that John knew of the deaths of Peter and Paul.

Wallace presents the argument for a late date and and early date -- 65 or 66AD.