Evidence for God from Science

I think this video needs some clarification - what do you guys think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx0shE3PQkM

Philip wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 5:22 pm I think this video needs some clarification - what do you guys think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx0shE3PQkM

Seems pretty clear to me. Heiser is preaching a false gospel.

Thank you for posting this.

I agree, Rick - as it appears he's latched onto the defenseless position of TEMPORARY eternal life (the ultimate oxymoron!) and/or that our only hope of "maintaining" our salvation lies within our own questionable ability to remain in faith through our own human efforts. And no one could ever have any certainty in such a shaky premise!

Philip wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 5:22 pm I think this video needs some clarification - what do you guys think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx0shE3PQkM

Watched the whole thing, and have no idea where this conclusion comes from. He never once uttered anything close to "temporary eternal life" (whatever that means). What he said is if you believe in God, you are saved, if you don't you do not. These are literally his exact words (9:35-9:42). This is the Biblical prerequisite for salvation, too, so it's not heresy or whatever: "For God so loved the world that He gave His unique Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life"; "...because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved"; "And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under Heaven given among men by which we must be saved"; etc. etc.

So yeah, I have no idea what the issue is supposed to be with Doctor Heiser.

Evan wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:23 am

Philip wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 5:22 pm I think this video needs some clarification - what do you guys think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx0shE3PQkM

Watched the whole thing, and have no idea where this conclusion comes from. He never once uttered anything close to "temporary eternal life" (whatever that means). What he said is if you believe in God, you are saved, if you don't you do not. These are literally his exact words (9:35-9:42). This is the Biblical prerequisite for salvation, too, so it's not heresy or whatever: "For God so loved the world that He gave His unique Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life"; "...because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved"; "And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under Heaven given among men by which we must be saved"; etc. etc.

So yeah, I have no idea what the issue is supposed to be with Doctor Heiser.

He said that if one stops believing, one is no longer saved. In other words, one believes, passes from death to life(John 5:24) and has eternal life. Then one stops believing, and no longer has eternal life.

So, what do you call eternal life that’s not eternal, as Heiser preaches?

I'm sorry Rick, but the bible does not state you can accept Jesus then live like an apostate heathen and still make heaven. God also told me there are some that think they are Christians but aren't going to make it either, as Matthew 7:21 states. God judges us not how we start our lives, but how we finish. Ezekiel 18:24-28

Luke 13:24 - Many will try to enter and NOT be able to

You have to be a true Christian until death, and a true Christian will not be making a practice of sin. Sure, we sin occasionally, and unintentionally, but we don't make it our lifestyle.

Romans 6:1-2
Hebrews 10:26-27

My advice is to have a good read through of the NT epistles, they make things very clear.

Clay: You have to be a true Christian until death

Now, as for those who end up in Heaven, during the period between the moment of their salvation and their last breath as on earth, WHOSE efforts do you believe maintain a saved person's salvation until death??? Because it would seem Clay thinks that effort is up to the person - and yet that directly contradicts Philippians 1:6 and would make the Apostle Paul out to be a foolish dreamer that was spreading false hope and belief!

claysmithr wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:26 pm I'm sorry Rick, but the bible does not state you can accept Jesus then live like an apostate heathen and still make heaven. God also told me there are some that think they are Christians but aren't going to make it either, as Matthew 7:21 states. God judges us not how we start our lives, but how we finish. Ezekiel 18:24-28

Luke 13:24 - Many will try to enter and NOT be able to

You have to be a true Christian until death, and a true Christian will not be making a practice of sin. Sure, we sin occasionally, and unintentionally, but we don't make it our lifestyle.

Romans 6:1-2
Hebrews 10:26-27

My advice is to have a good read through of the NT epistles, they make things very clear.

Inside of all this cherry picking of scripture, I don’t see an answer to my question. Let’s try again.

So, what do you call eternal life that’s not eternal, as Heiser preaches?

Rick: Inside of all this cherry picking of scripture, I don’t see an answer to my question. Let’s try again.

So, what do you call eternal life that’s not eternal, as Heiser preaches?

Here are the dictionary choices for the word "Eternal":

Eternal Synonyms: Durable, enduring, lasting, imperishable, indefectible, indestructible, indissoluble, inexpungible, timeless, abiding, stable,steadfast, steady, unfailing, unfaltering, continual, continuing, continuous, incessant, unbroken, unceasing, uninterrupted, unremitting, endless, everlasting, deathless, never-dying, ceaseless, perpetual, undying, ceaseless

Eternal Antonyms: Impermanent, mortal, temporary, transient, ephemeral, temporal, fleeting, evanescent, sublunary.

Philip,

I’ve yet to hear anyone who doesn’t believe in eternal security, explain John 3:16.

Eternal life is a gift, but it's up to us to accept it or reject it. God judges us based upon the final condition of our soul upon death. Ezekiel 18:24-28

Lets look what it says right after John 3:16

John 3:18 - ESV

but whoever does not believe is condemned already

What I'm trying to point out here, is that if you accept Christ, but then die as an unbeliever, God will judge you as an unbeliever. This is my main point.

Our friend DBowling would argue, they were never truly Christian to begin with. 1 John 2:19

My minor points I would like to add that there are clear warnings in scripture that say not to practice sin, not to deny Jesus Christ before men Matthew 10:33, there are people who will say 'Lord Lord!' and consider themselves Christian and will not make it because they practice sin, and that we are to keep the faith until our deaths. - Revelation 2:10

I would also like to add that salvation is by faith, not by works lest any man should boast.

The true Christian will be on the narrow road of sanctification to a salvation kept and guarded by the blood of Jesus Christ. All we are asked to do is have faith.

God has set a day of judgement for all people, including Christians. The difference is that we have an advocate with the Father, his blood cleanses us from all sin and he clothes us in his righteousness!

To those who claim to be Christian by their works but practice sin, Jesus will simply say he never knew them! To those who deny Jesus before men, Jesus will deny them before the Father. To those who once claimed to be Christian but fell away, there's nothing left for them but judgement.

I’m not addressing any of that until you explain John 3:16 in light of your belief that someone can lose eternal life.


16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Again, whoever believes(trusts) in Christ, has eternal life. If a person has believed in Christ, he is regenerate and has eternal life. God has transformed that person, and he is a new creature in Christ. No sin this person could perform, which includes ceasing belief, can change that. Your claim that someone can have temporary eternal life, makes a mockery of the cross of Christ, and God’s power to keep those who are His, despite our failures. What kind of weak God do you believe in, that cannot keep His promise?

Rick: What kind of weak God do you believe in, that cannot keep His promise?

AMEN!!! And how could anyone ever have confidence in their salvation, not knowing if they might fall away during a time of great stress or whatever?

Rick: I’m not addressing any of that until you explain John 3:16 in light of your belief that someone can lose eternal life.

Who is the eternal life? Jesus is.

Eternal life is still eternal whether or not you accept it.

Let's say someone says if you have faith you will get an eternal diamond [and for the sake of argument it is eternal]... you can forfeit that eternal diamond by saying you don't want it anymore, throw it away, and reject it.

Then someone could say, do you have that eternal diamond? And then you say that you rejected it.

Then they would say, well it must not ever been an eternal diamond, because if you rejected it then it must not have ever been eternal.

See how that argument makes no sense?

Our eternal life is found in Christ. He is the way, the truth, and the life.

None of us have eternal life outside of our union with Jesus.

Before you had a relationship with Jesus Christ, was he already eternal life, or was he not?

When you come to Christ, do you have eternal life? Yes! because you are in Christ, and he is the life!

If you reject Jesus Christ, and you're cut off from Christ, and you no longer have eternal life, is Jesus still the eternal life? Does eternal life cease to exist? No. You've just chosen not to participate in it.

1 John 5:11-12 - And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

If you come to Christ you have eternal life, if you reject him, you reject eternal life. Eternal life doesn't stop it continues it just doesn't continue for you. You refuse to participate in it, but it's still eternal.

Jesus compares us to branches on a tree. Jesus is the tree, and we are the branches. As branches we can either abide in the tree, or be cut off from the tree.

If we are not abiding or growing in Christ, we just want to hear empty promises, like the serpent says "You shall not die."

God doesn't give false promises, he gives promises with warnings.

John 15:1-6 - “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.

This is a clear warning for those in Christ that you MUST abide in Christ, or you will wither and be thrown into the fire.

1 John 2:24-25 Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father. And this is the promise that he made to us—eternal life.

2 John 9-11 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

Matthew 24:13 - He that endures to the end will be saved.

Clay, you have ignored what Scripture says about Who maintains the hope and faith of a Believer - and you apparently believe YOU must maintain your faith until you die. So, the reality of that is, you have no idea whether you will spend eternity with Christ or not - and thus you must live in constant anxiety as to whether or not you'll be able to maintain it. And what if you ever developed a mental illness or severe addiction, etc. - and in the midst of those trials rejected your belief and hope in Jesus - what then???!!! How do you think you could maintain something (faith in Christ!) you couldn't even achieve without God's help?