Evidence for God from Science

No one denies that the "unhealthy" are at greater risk for hospitalization and death from covid than the "healthy".
That is precisely why the vaccines were first rolled out to those who were at greater risk due to age and preexisting conditions.

That said,
No matter where you go, the story is the same.
Unvaccinated people are
- overwhelmingly more likely to catch covid
- overwhelmingly more likely to be hospitalized for covid
- and overwhelmingly more likely to die from covid
than vaccinated people

Some Examples...

Pennsylvania
Vaccines Work: 97% Of COVID Deaths, 95% Of Hospitalizations And 94% Of Cases Are Among Unvaccinated Pennsylvanians
https://www.media.pa.gov/pages/health-d ... ewsid=1595

North Carolina
As Adult ICU Patients Hit Record Highs for the Pandemic, New Report Shows Unvaccinated People Are More Than 15 Times More Likely to Die From COVID-19 Compared to Vaccinated People
https://www.ncdhhs.gov/news/press-relea ... e-15-times

Alabama
94% of Alabama COVID-19 deaths among unvaccinated
https://www.wsfa.com/2021/08/23/94-alab ... accinated/

COVID-19 by the Numbers: Vaccinated Continue to Be Protected
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ ... -protected

Unvaccinated people were 11 times more likely to die of covid-19, CDC report finds
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... e-studies/

CDC study shows unvaccinated people are 29 times more likely to be hospitalized with Covid
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/24/cdc-stu ... covid.html

Covid-19: Unvaccinated face 11 times risk of death from delta variant, CDC data show
https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2282

The data is clear and unambiguous...
... its not even close...

An unvaccinated 'healthy' person is much more likely to catch covid, be hospitalized for covid, and die from covid than a vaccinated 'healthy' person.
An unvaccinated 'unhealthy' person is much more likely to catch covid, be hospitalized for covid, and die from covid than a vaccinated 'unhealthy' person.

Whether a person is healthy or unhealthy
The risk of catching covid and dying from covid is significantly decreased for the vaccinated.

Did you watch the video? Whether or not the links You posted are even accurate, doesn’t really matter to his point. Where in the links does it mention the health of those dying with Covid? Those who are severely ill, whether vaccinated or not, where is the list of comorbidities?

DBowling wrote:
That said,
No matter where you go, the story is the same.
Unvaccinated people are
- overwhelmingly more likely to catch covid
- overwhelmingly more likely to be hospitalized for covid
- and overwhelmingly more likely to die from covid
than vaccinated people

Apparently you missed israel. Israel was the first country to have most of its population fully vaccinated. And now the majority of hospitalized and dying with Covid, are fully vaccinated.

The data is clear and unambiguous...
... its not even close...

And the data’s accuracy is questionable, so that means it’s not so clear.

An unvaccinated 'healthy' person is much more likely to catch covid, be hospitalized for covid, and die from covid than a vaccinated 'healthy' person.

That’s just flat out false! The number of healthy people, who aren’t obese, don’t have heart conditions, diabetes, a good vitamin D level, simply aren’t being hospitalized or dying from Covid. That’s just misinformation from the vaccine pushers.

An unvaccinated 'unhealthy' person is much more likely to catch covid, be hospitalized for covid, and die from covid than a vaccinated 'unhealthy' person.

Again, see Israel. Is what’s happening there, going to happen here? We will see. It’s already been shown that the Covid vaccines aren’t anywhere near as effective for the Delta variant, as the “experts” originally claimed.

Tell me how much greater is the risk of vaccine injury or death, for those vaccinated, compared to the unvaccinated. And people who are healthy, and in a low risk age group, need to consider that before getting the “vaccines”.

Just look at VAERS, and tell me that doesn’t trouble you.

To reiterate, the point of the video is that health is a much, much more important factor when it comes to Covid, than whether or not someone is vaccinated. So that begs the question, as to why the “experts” haven't been pushing people for the last 2 years, to get healthy, as much as they’ve been pushing the healthy, and extremely low risk people to get injected with something that there’s no long-term safety data on?

RickD wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:49 pm

DBowling wrote:
That said,
No matter where you go, the story is the same.
Unvaccinated people are
- overwhelmingly more likely to catch covid
- overwhelmingly more likely to be hospitalized for covid
- and overwhelmingly more likely to die from covid
than vaccinated people

Apparently you missed israel. Israel was the first country to have most of its population fully vaccinated. And now the majority of hospitalized and dying with Covid, are fully vaccinated.

Actually Israel shows the same pattern as everywhere else...
The Delta variant is currently causing more break through cases than other strains of covid
The Delta variant has a more serious impact on the unvaccinated than the vaccinated

Highly Vaccinated Israel Is Seeing A Dramatic Surge In New COVID Cases. Here's Why


"The good news is that among Israel's serious infections on Thursday of this week, according to Health Ministry data, the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people over age 60 (178.7 per 100,000) was nine times more than the rate among fully vaccinated people of the same age category, and the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people in the under-60 crowd (3.2 per 100,000) was a little more than double the rate among vaccinated people in that age bracket."

""We have a very large fraction of our population who are paying the price for a small fraction of the population who did not go to get the vaccine," said Eran Segal of the Weizmann Institute of Science, who advises the Israeli government on COVID-19.
Unvaccinated people helped fuel the rapid spread of the virus while the country remained open for business in recent months with few serious restrictions."

An unvaccinated 'healthy' person is much more likely to catch covid, be hospitalized for covid, and die from covid than a vaccinated 'healthy' person.

That’s just flat out false! The number of healthy people, who aren’t obese, don’t have heart conditions, diabetes, a good vitamin D level, simply aren’t being hospitalized or dying from Covid.

You might want to reread the statement that you mistakenly claim is false
An unvaccinated 'healthy' person is much more likely to catch covid, be hospitalized for covid, and die from covid than a vaccinated 'healthy' person.

There is nothing false about that statement at all.
It would be helpful for you to acknowledge that.

Just look at VAERS, and tell me that doesn’t trouble you.

I do look at VAERS...
VAERS is a sequence of events database not a cause/effect database.
And even the the VAERS numbers (which again do not indicate cause/effect) are miniscule compared to the 1 in 500 Americans who have died from covid.

To reiterate, the point of the video is that health is a much, much more important factor when it comes to Covid, than whether or not someone is vaccinated..

They are both important.
A healthy life style in conjunction with vaccination provides the most effective protection against covid.

So that begs the question, as to why the “experts” haven't been pushing people for the last 2 years, to get healthy, as much as they’ve been pushing the healthy, and extremely low risk people to get injected with something that there’s no long-term safety data on?

The answer to that is pretty simple...
The vaccine provides protection for everyone, healthy or unhealthy.
And if you want to save as many lives as possible then you want to focus on efforts that effect the most people in the shortest amount of time.

Care to respond to this? It’s an important point that you didn’t address:

Tell me how much greater is the risk of vaccine injury or death, for those vaccinated, compared to the unvaccinated. And people who are healthy, and in a low risk age group, need to consider that before getting the “vaccines”.

RickD wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:08 am Care to respond to this? It’s an important point that you didn’t address:

Tell me how much greater is the risk of vaccine injury or death, for those vaccinated, compared to the unvaccinated. And people who are healthy, and in a low risk age group, need to consider that before getting the “vaccines”.

The following quote that I posted above from Israel gives some insight into your question.

"The good news is that among Israel's serious infections on Thursday of this week, according to Health Ministry data, the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people over age 60 (178.7 per 100,000) was nine times more than the rate among fully vaccinated people of the same age category, and the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people in the under-60 crowd (3.2 per 100,000) was a little more than double the rate among vaccinated people in that age bracket."

For those over 60 the unvaccinated were 9 times more likely to get a serious case of covid then the vaccinated
For those under 60 the unvaccinated were a little over twice as likely to get a serious case of covid than the vaccinated.

So the Israel data is consistent with what we see elsewhere.
While everyone benefits from getting vaccinated, the difference between the vaccinated and unvaccinated is greater among those at higher risk (in this case those over 60) than those at lower risk (those under 60).

Do you have any data that says anything different?

DBowling wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:45 am

RickD wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:08 am Care to respond to this? It’s an important point that you didn’t address:

Tell me how much greater is the risk of vaccine injury or death, for those vaccinated, compared to the unvaccinated. And people who are healthy, and in a low risk age group, need to consider that before getting the “vaccines”.

The following quote that I posted above from Israel gives some insight into your question.

"The good news is that among Israel's serious infections on Thursday of this week, according to Health Ministry data, the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people over age 60 (178.7 per 100,000) was nine times more than the rate among fully vaccinated people of the same age category, and the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people in the under-60 crowd (3.2 per 100,000) was a little more than double the rate among vaccinated people in that age bracket."

For those over 60 the unvaccinated were 9 times more likely to get a serious case of covid then the vaccinated
For those under 60 the unvaccinated were a little over twice as likely to get a serious case of covid than the vaccinated.

So the Israel data is consistent with what we see elsewhere.
While everyone benefits from getting vaccinated, the difference between the vaccinated and unvaccinated is greater among those at higher risk (in this case those over 60) than those at lower risk (those under 60).

Do you have any data that says anything different?

None of that addresses my question. Read it again, and respond if you want.

Interesting article on how something can be both factual and misleading. And how this pertains to Covid facts.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertpear ... d28e2e7169

RickD wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:50 am

DBowling wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:45 am

RickD wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:08 am Care to respond to this? It’s an important point that you didn’t address:

Tell me how much greater is the risk of vaccine injury or death, for those vaccinated, compared to the unvaccinated. And people who are healthy, and in a low risk age group, need to consider that before getting the “vaccines”.

The following quote that I posted above from Israel gives some insight into your question.

"The good news is that among Israel's serious infections on Thursday of this week, according to Health Ministry data, the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people over age 60 (178.7 per 100,000) was nine times more than the rate among fully vaccinated people of the same age category, and the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people in the under-60 crowd (3.2 per 100,000) was a little more than double the rate among vaccinated people in that age bracket."

For those over 60 the unvaccinated were 9 times more likely to get a serious case of covid then the vaccinated
For those under 60 the unvaccinated were a little over twice as likely to get a serious case of covid than the vaccinated.

So the Israel data is consistent with what we see elsewhere.
While everyone benefits from getting vaccinated, the difference between the vaccinated and unvaccinated is greater among those at higher risk (in this case those over 60) than those at lower risk (those under 60).

Do you have any data that says anything different?

None of that addresses my question. Read it again, and respond if you want.

I misread your question. Let me try again.

I actually touched lightly on your question above with this statement
"And even the the VAERS numbers (which again do not indicate cause/effect) are miniscule compared to the 1 in 500 Americans who have died from covid."

This article directly addresses what I think you are asking

How many people have died from the vaccine in the U.S.?
https://covid-101.org/science/how-many- ... n-the-u-s/

The short answer is

There are three deaths that appear to be linked to blood clots that occurred after people got the J&J vaccine.

So you have 3 documented deaths that are linked to the J&J vaccine compared to the 670,000 deaths that are covid related.

One of the key sources of misinformation about the safety of the vaccine involves some on the internet and in the media either misunderstanding or misrepresenting the purpose and nature of VAERS data.
As I mention above VAERS does not claim to represent cause/effect relationships.

This link describes the purpose of VAERS.
VAERS and Vaccine Safety: What You Need to Know
https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/vaers-and-vaccine-safety

"VAERS stands for the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System. It’s a nationwide early warning system that helps the CDC and FDA spot possible safety problems with vaccines licensed in the U.S. "

"VAERS doesn’t determine whether a vaccine caused or played a role in a particular health issue. Rather, it helps experts at the CDC and FDA spot patterns that might be early clues of a problem."

So those who use VAERS data to assert or imply a cause/effect relationship between a vaccine and an adverse reaction are misunderstanding and/or misusing the VAERS data.

DBowling wrote:
So you have 3 documented deaths that are linked to the J&J vaccine compared to the 670,000 deaths that are covid related.

One of the key sources of misinformation about the safety of the vaccine involves some on the internet and in the media either misunderstanding or misrepresenting the purpose and nature of VAERS data.
As I mention above VAERS does not claim to represent cause/effect relationships.

Why are you saying death with Covid is Covid related, but death after vaccine isn’t vaccine related?

RickD wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:16 am

DBowling wrote:
So you have 3 documented deaths that are linked to the J&J vaccine compared to the 670,000 deaths that are covid related.

One of the key sources of misinformation about the safety of the vaccine involves some on the internet and in the media either misunderstanding or misrepresenting the purpose and nature of VAERS data.
As I mention above VAERS does not claim to represent cause/effect relationships.

Why are you saying death with Covid is Covid related, but death after vaccine isn’t vaccine related?

"Covid related" means that Covid was a causal agent in the death
"linked to" means that the vaccine was a causal agent in the death.

"after the vaccine" does not establish or even imply any type of causal relationship between the vaccine and an adverse reaction or death.
It just says that an adverse event of some sort occurred sequentially after the vaccine so it should be investigated.
The investigation would then determine whether or not the vaccine is responsible for an increased rate of the adverse reaction that is greater than the rate in the general population at large.

That is why people who rely on VAERS data as the basis for claims about the safety of vaccines are misunderstanding and misusing (sometimes unintentionally, and sometimes intentionally) the VAERS data.

DBowling wrote:
So you have 3 documented deaths that are linked to the J&J vaccine compared to the 670,000 deaths that are covid related.

Why would you even post this when you know it’s misleading?

RickD wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:34 pm

DBowling wrote:
So you have 3 documented deaths that are linked to the J&J vaccine compared to the 670,000 deaths that are covid related.

Why would you even post this when you know it’s misleading?

As a follower of Jesus who cares deeply about facts and truth, I wouldn't post it if it was misleading.
If you think my statement is factually inaccurate, feel free to present your data.

DBowling wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:19 pm

RickD wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:34 pm

DBowling wrote:
So you have 3 documented deaths that are linked to the J&J vaccine compared to the 670,000 deaths that are covid related.

Why would you even post this when you know it’s misleading?

As a follower of Jesus who cares deeply about facts and truth, I wouldn't post it if it was misleading.
If you think my statement is factually inaccurate, feel free to present your data.

You’re playing with words. I didn’t day your statement is factually inaccurate. I said it’s misleading. Read post#8 and you’ll understand how something can be factually accurate, and still be misleading.

RickD wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:22 am

DBowling wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:19 pm

RickD wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:34 pm

DBowling wrote:
So you have 3 documented deaths that are linked to the J&J vaccine compared to the 670,000 deaths that are covid related.

Why would you even post this when you know it’s misleading?

As a follower of Jesus who cares deeply about facts and truth, I wouldn't post it if it was misleading.
If you think my statement is factually inaccurate, feel free to present your data.

You’re playing with words. I didn’t day your statement is factually inaccurate. I said it’s misleading. Read post#8 and you’ll understand how something can be factually accurate, and still be misleading.

Oh...your implication is very obvious...
But as I stated in my post, my statements are factually accurate and there is nothing misleading about my posts in this thread.

As I said somewhere else, the truth of my statement is easily confirmed.
About 50% of the US is fully vaccinated.
- Are hospitals in the US being flooded with people suffering from adverse reactions to the covid vaccine?
- Or are hospitals in the US being flooded with unvaccinated people who have contracted covid?

The data is clear and unambiguous.
If the data doesn't align with a person's personal perspective, that doesn't mean the data is "unclear".
It simply means that particular perspective is driven by something other than facts and data.