We need to have an honest discussion about race in America

[Kenny]

Over the years, I’ve heard many people say that we need to have an honest discussion about race in America, but when the people who say this get the discussion, I’ve found 100% of the time (not most of the time, not even 90%, but 100% of the time) it turns out these are the very people who do not want an honest discussion about race in America. What they want is to dictate their subjective views about race onto others, even to the point of offending them, but they do not want others dictating their subjective views to them; even to a point that they might find offensive.
They want to express their views to others and have them just listen, without giving input or disagreement, and they attempt to conflate this with having an honest discussion about race. This is not a discussion; a discussion goes both ways, this is dictation; this is indoctrination. Now if this is what you want, fine; just just say so! Say you want to dictate your subjective views about race on to others and just have them listen; and quit calling it a desire for an honest discussion, because that it is not.
Your thoughts?

[Philip]

Ken, I totally agree with you. We not only need an honest dialogue about race, but we also need God's wisdom in how we think about race and those different from ourselves!

So, what does God and Scripture say about race?

First, it is God who created the races – and it began with His creation of the first humans:

“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.”

Later, (Deuteronomy 32:8), God “divided mankind, He fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.”

Through His New Testament, God reaffirms the by above by informing us He made “EVERY nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place” (Acts 17:26)

So, it is God who created humans and our genetic possibilities / differences, and Who dispersed humanity from its original locations, resulting in genetic differences that began to create differing and also similar racial features in tribes and isolated populations. People who have prejudices based upon RACE (as OPPOSED to the ACTIONS of INDIVIDUALS within ANY given race) – actually have a problem with God Himself, as it is His good pleasure that created humanity with so many shades and features! As there is NO purity of race, and as all of humanity shares a mixture of the very same genetic roots. What most people think of as race has to do with their skin color and features. But God recognizes our physical differences, He primarily views us all as individual members of the HUMAN race!

Interesting, that it is the LACK of genetic diversity that presents humanity a far greater probability of diseases and deformities. Genetic diversity makes us a healthier species!

God regards NO man of ANY race as being above any other:

““God does not show favoritism.” (Romans 2:11)

God specifically forbids race-based favoritism!

“The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. LOVE them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.” (Leviticus 19:34)

God embraces those of ALL races who desire Him:

When God freed Israel from its slavery in Egypt, through the plagues, it wasn’t just Israelites that He freed and left with them – they brought Egyptians and others as well: “ A MIXED multitude ALSO went up with them, and very much livestock, both flocks and herds. (Exodus 12:38)

“This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.” (Romans 3:22-24)

(In Christ) “There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Galatians 3:28)

God desires Christians reach to those of all races, from ALL nations:

“Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.”

Interestingly, in His famous parable of the Good Samaritan, Jesus responded to the clever lawyer who wished to justify / pick and choose as to which people groups / ethnicities God desires that he love. So, Jesus’ parable showed that of all those mentioned in his parable of the poor man, only the Samaritan (a man of a people group universally despised and hated by the Jews of the time) showed the kind of love and compassion for others that God desires. And, by contrasting the (oft-despised) Samaritan's mercy and kindness with the cold indifference and prejudice of a priest and Levite (society types of people the Jews all held in high esteem), we see God wants us to love and respect people of ALL races and backgrounds!

God not only delights in the different races, nationalities and tribes He created, but did you know these different races will ALL also exist in the permanent Heaven / restored earth to come? Note that the Book of Revelation depicts the end of human history as having a multitude of ethnicities that will stand before God's throne as ONE in worship of Him (Revelation 7:9–10):

9 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from EVERY nation, from all TRIBE and PEOPLES and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”

[1over137]

...Honesty is hardly ever heard
And mostly what I need from you...



What a lovely song I just discovered.

[1over137]

Over the years, I’ve heard many people say that we need to have an honest discussion about race in America, but when the people who say this get the discussion, I’ve found 100% of the time (not most of the time, not even 90%, but 100% of the time) it turns out these are the very people who do not want an honest discussion about race in America. What they want is to dictate their subjective views about race onto others, even to the point of offending them, but they do not want others dictating their subjective views to them; even to a point that they might find offensive.
They want to express their views to others and have them just listen, without giving input or disagreement, and they attempt to conflate this with having an honest discussion about race. This is not a discussion; a discussion goes both ways, this is dictation; this is indoctrination. Now if this is what you want, fine; just just say so! Say you want to dictate your subjective views about race on to others and just have them listen; and quit calling it a desire for an honest discussion, because that it is not.
Your thoughts?

My thought is: Many people are not honest.

[Fliegender]

About twenty years ago I was driving through Georgia on my way to Florida. The car was getting low on fuel so I stopped at a BP station to fill up. I couldn’t get the pump to work so I went to see the attendant. He was a big black man who obviously wasn’t happy to see me. He came out to my car and the minute he saw my Canadian license plate, his demeanour completely changed. From the ogre he was a moment ago, he changed into a nice smiling guy. We chatted, he welcomed me to the USA and wished me a nice trip. Wow.

Another time, black American friends came to visit me in Canada. They expressed surprise that when they entered a store, they were politely greeted and no employee either eyed them suspiciously or surreptitiously followed them around. Wow.

Last story: the first time I visited Detroit, I stopped for fuel , filled my car then went inside to pay. Imagine my surprise when the clerk was in a cubicle behind bulletproof glass! Not only the clerk but all the goods being sold were with him in this bulletproof cage. Wow. “What a crazy country” I thought.

[1over137]

Flieg, I wonder why such a difference between US and Canada. I know little bit of US history and nothing about Canadian history.

Now, I looked it up and see from https://humanrights.ca/story/the-story- ... an-history:

Compared to the United States, enslaved people made up a much smaller proportion of the population in British North America. This means that some of the worst traits of slavery in America, such as the employment of overseers and the horrible practice of forcing enslaved people to reproduce, did not happen in what is now Canada. It would be wrong, however, to suggest that enslaved people in British North America were well‐treated. The very nature of slavery meant that its victims were stripped of their basic human rights and exploited. Most wills from the time treated enslaved people as nothing more than property, passing on ownership of human beings the same as they would furniture, cattle or land.5 Defiant or troublesome enslaved people were often severely punished. Physical and sexual abuse was always a very real threat.

The abolition of slavery allowed the British colonies in North America to become a safe haven for escaped enslaved people in the United States, with many making their way North via the famous Underground Railroad. The story of the Underground Railroad is a positive moment in Canadian history, worthy of commemoration. We must also recall, however, that for more than two hundred years, slavery happened here, too.

So, slavery did happen in Canada, but to a lesser extent than in the US.

[Philip]

An honest discussion of race should include the fact that there is a certain percentage of people of EVERY race that are prejudiced against people of other races. Those insistent that ANY race is morally superior or any less sinful - as an entire race, than those of any other race, are truly clueless. Human beings are sinful and flawed, and racism is merely one of those sins they exhibit. I've experienced it at a terrible, even dangerous level, with constant threats and intimidations. I've also seen it manifested in my own and every race I've ever encountered. I have seen it manifested in my own family. And so has everyone else, if they are honest about it. And we will never solve the problems of the present by focusing upon the sins of people long dead committed against their victims (ALSO) long dead, or think we can make things right by instituting punitive measures against people alive to day for the sins of people they never met, but were merely related to. And when that happens, it just makes resentments fester and then the hotheads on all sides are quick to fan the flames. And the media is absolutely clueless and pushes the same old narratives, often morphing some truth and many untruths - which also makes things worse.

Dr. King had it right - stop hurtful things that ALL people are experiencing and lets come together as brothers and sisters and celebrate of differences in appearances, culture and tastes - and LOVE each other! Those looking just to demonize whatever and whomever aren't changing bad things or bringing positive solutions for our divisiveness - instead, they are just dividing us further. Look, Martin Luther King faced a lot of backlash for his talk of racial brotherhood and love - and now certain groups today are equally trashing such sentiments.

The solution, while so often challenging, is really quite simple, just as Jesus said, in Luke 10:

“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.”

And don't be a self-righteous hypocrite like the "clever" lawyer who obviously still wanted to discriminate against and hate certain groups of people, per his question revealing his heart's desire to find a legal loophole to the commandment above: "“And who is my neighbor?”

As for people who've gotten caught up in racism, race-baiting, hatred, etc. - the Bible teaches people can and should change their minds and hearts concerning such hideous things - and that those of us who (rightfully) despise such words and actions, shouldn't hate those who have done such things either. Scripture teaches, through Christ, people of all manner of sin issues can overcome them, AND that God wants to both change AND forgive them. And we should forgive them, too - while still holding them to Godly standards of words and conduct as to how they treat others. The world doesn't want to forgive, as it mostly want to pronounce this person or that one as inherently bad and irredeemable. And once you're pronounced "out," (or cancelled) the relentless unforgivers (hypocrites!) don't ever want to consider such a person worthy of forgiveness, while they hide their own dirty deeds.

"For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, 15 but if you do NOT forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

God provides individuals and society a way out of the racial-hate cycle - yet, unfortunately, a high percentage of people don't really want to embrace His solution to such evils. And so it will continue until a certain Day (of the Lord)!

[Armyman]

It's pretty silly either way. Under our skin color, hair color, etc, we are the same. Red. All one human race.

[Fliegender]

Flieg, I wonder why such a difference between US and Canada. I know little bit of US history and nothing about Canadian history.

Now, I looked it up and see from https://humanrights.ca/story/the-story- ... an-history...

So, slavery did happen in Canada, but to a lesser extent than in the US.

Slavery and racism were common traits throughout the societies of both North and South America. Slavery was especially important in the development of Brazil and the USA. Both these countries continue to suffer the effects of the systemic racism of the past. If you go to Brazil now, you can see the effects of historic slavery: the favelas (slums) are occupied by dark-skinned Brazilians much like the slums of the USA. There are some whites in these slums but they are the exception, at least judging from what I’ve seen. Friends of mine who live in Belo Horizonte (a city about 45 minutes north of Rio de Janeiro) are in a kind of “white island” where all the buildings’ entrances have extensive security systems that keep out...the poor. The racial situation in Brazil is even worse than it is in the USA.

So, the USA has actually done a better job of integrating minorities - and descendants of slaves - than a country like Brazil. The USA even has had a black president and now has a vice-president from a visible minority. These are both positive events. It’s really up to Americans to determine how to heal the scars of their past racism. This healing will take time, probably centuries.