Evidence for God from Science

I don't understand the name of this forum

The name and title of this forum is "Evidence for God from Science", but I only see that it is a Christian forum, based on the Bible, which has nothing scientific about it.

And what's more, it confirms that this name agrees with the reality of the forum, when the (or administrators) do not allow the publication of a response associated with science (answer that I made more than a week ago), and since I think and I analyze as a biochemical and pharmaceutical professional, with high scientific knowledge, but always with respect for religious people (I never attack the beliefs of religious people, regardless of their religion).

margii wrote: ↑Mon Jan 29, 2024 5:20 am I don't understand the name of this forum

The name and title of this forum is "Evidence for God from Science", but I only see that it is a Christian forum, based on the Bible, which has nothing scientific about it.

And what's more, it confirms that this name agrees with the reality of the forum, when the (or administrators) do not allow the publication of a response associated with science (answer that I made more than a week ago), and since I think and I analyze as a biochemical and pharmaceutical professional, with high scientific knowledge, but always with respect for religious people (I never attack the beliefs of religious people, regardless of their religion).

Be patient - as there are times I get busy on other things and I just haven't had time to respond - but I WILL!

Philip wrote: ↑Mon Jan 29, 2024 9:23 am

margii wrote: ↑Mon Jan 29, 2024 5:20 am I don't understand the name of this forum

The name and title of this forum is "Evidence for God from Science", but I only see that it is a Christian forum, based on the Bible, which has nothing scientific about it.

And what's more, it confirms that this name agrees with the reality of the forum, when the (or administrators) do not allow the publication of a response associated with science (answer that I made more than a week ago), and since I think and I analyze as a biochemical and pharmaceutical professional, with high scientific knowledge, but always with respect for religious people (I never attack the beliefs of religious people, regardless of their religion).

Be patient - as there are times I get busy on other things and I just haven't had time to respond - but I WILL!

Dear

I mean this topic

viewtopic.php?t=44112

I sent a response, it was not yet approved for publication by the moderator.

Margii: I don't understand the name of this forum

The name and title of this forum is "Evidence for God from Science", but I only see that it is a Christian forum, based on the Bible, which has nothing scientific about it.

Then you need to do some searches with the search or advanced search box, as much concerning science has prolifically been discussed here.

Margii: And what's more, it confirms that this name agrees with the reality of the forum, when the (or administrators) do not allow the publication of a response associated with science (answer that I made more than a week ago), and since I think and I analyze as a biochemical and pharmaceutical professional, with high scientific knowledge, but always with respect for religious people (I never attack the beliefs of religious people, regardless of their religion).

Lack of approving this post was unintended - it's been posted now. BTW, I try not to attack or offend anyone PERSONALLY - whatever their religion - however, I will, respectfully, attack or question their arguments and contentions, as I see errors or untruths in it. I personally detest ALL religion. And I don't see Christianity as a religion. ALL religions seek to appease their supposed god, gods, or prophets, and attempt to gain their favor and whatever versions of heaven BY DOING STUFF to appease whatever god or gods they follow. The God of the Bible cannot be appeased or impressed by our human works - nor can Heaven be achieved by them.

While science does point to many impossibilities and massive improbabilities of an ordered, highly fine-tuned universe existing without an intelligent Source of great power, which by necessity, must stand outside of space and time - that source is the Originator of ALL things, and is not dependent upon anything it has created. I call that Source God / Christ. ALL contingent things require a cause - and so the very first things, Singularity / the Big Bang, likewise required a cause. And instead of chaos, we find an incredibly fine-tuned universe and earth - which requires an intellect and mind beyond our comprehension. But God is Spirit - and science is limited to analyzing, testing and observing the physical. So, while science gives us some powerful evidences that a Creator absolutely must exist, it cannot PROVE it, as in, "Here He is!" But that does not mean that God hasn't stepped into our reality, or hasn't communicated with us, or that He's not left of tremendous evidences of Himself for us to consider.

Philip wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 8:55 pm

Margii: I don't understand the name of this forum

The name and title of this forum is "Evidence for God from Science", but I only see that it is a Christian forum, based on the Bible, which has nothing scientific about it.

Then you need to do some searches with the search or advanced search box, as much concerning science has prolifically been discussed here.

Margii: And what's more, it confirms that this name agrees with the reality of the forum, when the (or administrators) do not allow the publication of a response associated with science (answer that I made more than a week ago), and since I think and I analyze as a biochemical and pharmaceutical professional, with high scientific knowledge, but always with respect for religious people (I never attack the beliefs of religious people, regardless of their religion).

Lack of approving this post was unintended - it's been posted now. BTW, I try not to attack or offend anyone PERSONALLY - whatever their religion - however, I will, respectfully, attack or question their arguments and contentions, as I see errors or untruths in it. I personally detest ALL religion. And I don't see Christianity as a religion. ALL religions seek to appease their supposed god, gods, or prophets, and attempt to gain their favor and whatever versions of heaven BY DOING STUFF to appease whatever god or gods they follow. The God of the Bible cannot be appeased or impressed by our human works - nor can Heaven be achieved by them.

While science does point to many impossibilities and massive improbabilities of an ordered, highly fine-tuned universe existing without an intelligent Source of great power, which by necessity, must stand outside of space and time - that source is the Originator of ALL things, and is not dependent upon anything it has created. I call that Source God / Christ. ALL contingent things require a cause - and so the very first things, Singularity / the Big Bang, likewise required a cause. And instead of chaos, we find an incredibly fine-tuned universe and earth - which requires an intellect and mind beyond our comprehension. But God is Spirit - and science is limited to analyzing, testing and observing the physical. So, while science gives us some powerful evidences that a Creator absolutely must exist, it cannot PROVE it, as in, "Here He is!" But that does not mean that God hasn't stepped into our reality, or hasn't communicated with us, or that He's not left of tremendous evidences of Himself for us to consider.

I agree with your comment... true science and logic allow us, inevitably, to begin an understanding that there is a non-materiality (the cause of everything is non-material), but that this non-materiality also governs everything, to which we can call God, Brahma, or whatever we want. The relative, the existing, inevitably relies on something absolute, the unmanliest.

The only thing I differ from your comment is that I do not believe in Christ or the Bible. And this is said by someone who studied catechism from a very early age, who comes from Catholic and Protestant family backgrounds, who went to one of the most important Catholic schools in Argentina, La Salle...

... I never believed in Christ or the Bible... although, I repeat, I respect anyone who wants to believe in it.

I believe, with good reason, that the figure of Christ is a mythological figure that has been repeated, whose history was modified according to the circumstances of time and place. I accept Atwill's thesis, that it was the Romans, the Flavians, who for political-military reasons against the Jews, it was convenient for them to deform Judaism with a new version, in which the messiah was not a warrior but a man who was a pacifist and that only spoke of a kingdom that is pure fiction.

The need of the human masses to live in fictions of all kinds, in this case pseudo-spiritual ones, is the cause of why God allows the existence of religions.

In fact, I do not believe that religions, for example so-called Semitic (Judaism, Christianity and Muslimism) are monotheistic... When they say that there are two gods, the god of heaven and the god of hell, it is because they do not understand the nature created by the true God. They speak of a duality, when in the absolute state, in the infinite, duality cannot exist.... Nothing is bad in the absolute sense (yes there is, in the relative sense).

Everything that happens, whether we understand it or not, whether it is relatively good or bad, whether it gives us pleasure or suffering, is for a cause. Even the existence of genocidal monsters, such as Stalin and Hitler, occurred for necessary causes.

Margii: The only thing I differ from your comment is that I do not believe in Christ or the Bible

Margii: I believe, with good reason, that the figure of Christ is a mythological figure that has been repeated, whose history was modified according to the circumstances of time and place.

Well, then, this is a belief you have in spite of what the vast majority of SCHOLARS believe. While you are free to believe whatever it is that you want to, even the well-known ATHEIST Bible scholar Bart Ehrman dismisses this contention as ridiculous!

Bart Ehrman, PhD is an atheist and scholar - what does he say about what academics across the Western world, regardless of their unbelief or atheism, universally attest to about Jesus' existence? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUmWsPhllAU

Did Jesus exist - see what this historian says: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKcWgqsqJGg

Secular / NON-Christian historical sources outside the the Bible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUmWsPhllAU

Philip wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 7:48 am

Margii: The only thing I differ from your comment is that I do not believe in Christ or the Bible

Margii: I believe, with good reason, that the figure of Christ is a mythological figure that has been repeated, whose history was modified according to the circumstances of time and place.

Well, then, this is a belief you have in spite of what the vast majority of SCHOLARS believe. While you are free to believe whatever it is that you want to, even the well-known ATHEIST Bible scholar Bart Ehrman dismisses this contention as ridiculous!

Bart Ehrman, PhD is an atheist and scholar - what does he say about what academics across the Western world, regardless of their unbelief or atheism, universally attest to about Jesus' existence? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUmWsPhllAU

Did Jesus exist - see what this historian says: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKcWgqsqJGg

Secular / NON-Christian historical sources outside the the Bible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUmWsPhllAU

Dear Philp

I understand that someone needs another's opinion to confirm their faith... but that's not my case.
I reiterate, I studied at the highest level of religious schools, Catholic, such as the La Salle school, and I even studied catechism at an early age, but I always believed that all was a mythology (I don't need Atwill or whoever , I think by myself, from an early age).

From an early age, when I was less than 12 years old, I already accepted the power of the mind (I already had some kindo of telepathic experiences or sometimes saw the future or I have even had other types of experiences wrongly called "supernatural"), it seemed logical to me. reincarnation, I never accepted the existence of evil as an absolute entity, nor the devil as an entity nor heaven nor hell, and even less, final judgment.

Imagine what might interest me in what SCHOLARS think about this subject.... nothing, because I know very well that there are many commercial interests behind these "archaeological investigations". Furthermore, there is not a single reliable, contemporary proof that Christ ever existed... Even the first gospel was written about 70 years after his supposed birth.

I simply clarified where I do not agree with your comment... the rest seems very well reasoned to me.

My opinion is that God does not need to send any sons... because everything that exists is a manifestation of God.

Furthermore, God created time.... so God is beyond time, and nothing and no one can hide from God or do something that God does not know even before the creation itself. Then, this alone shows that the Final Judgment is meaningless.

Margii: From an early age, when I was less than 12 years old, I already accepted the power of the mind (I already had some kindo of telepathic experiences or sometimes saw the future or I have even had other types of experiences wrongly called "supernatural"), it seemed logical to me.

It matters not that you THINK such things and personal experiences were true or that they represented actual reality of things, as the psychology of the mind and experiences are very subjective and also be highly misleading. What REALLY happened to you? What were their source or cause - who knows? And how can you PROVE them to yourself - or to anyone else - that these experiences are what you think they were / are?

Margii: reincarnation, I never accepted the existence of evil as an absolute entity, nor the devil as an entity nor heaven nor hell, and even less, final judgment.

Whether we know of or accept a thing does not make them authentic or necessarily as we interpret them.

Margii: Imagine what might interest me in what SCHOLARS think about this subject.... nothing, because I know very well that there are many commercial interests behind these "archaeological investigations". Furthermore, there is not a single reliable, contemporary proof that Christ ever existed... Even the first gospel was written about 70 years after his supposed birth.

You are contradicting what many thousands of academic scholars affirm - and not just Christians, but also countless P.h.D.s that are unbelievers, agnostics, or atheists, who have spent their entire careers researching and studying the available historical data. That you fail to accept such overwhelming testimony from such a diversity of academics is telling. But you are free to believe whatever it is you desire to.

Margii: My opinion is that God does not need to send any sons... because everything that exists is a manifestation of God.

Your personal opinion isn't what matters. What matters is what is actually true and are there any evidences for it? And what do you consider to be a manifestation of God? And how can you, a mere mortal, know what should be done or how? Remember, as you have stated you believe, that God would have to be outside of time, matter - wholly independent of everything, and ALL-knowing. Second-guessing and ALL-knowing God is pretty impressive - who can do it, or know what is best for humanity?

Margii: Furthermore, God created time.... so God is beyond time, and nothing and no one can hide from God or do something that God does not know even before the creation itself. Then, this alone shows that the Final Judgment is meaningless.

Correct - there is NOTHING that can be hidden from God - EVER! However, God gave us free will and thus the freedom to submit to Him - or not. And while it is true that He has ALWAYS known the eternal fates of everyone, He nonetheless allows our lives to unfold in this REAL time space He has placed us in. And the final judgment is NOT meaningless, as God is JUST. He doesn't punish us or eternally separate us from Himself until after their days of mortal life and freedom to submit and believe have ended without such commitment to and belief in Him - even though He has ALWAYS known what our ultimate mortal response to Him will be.

Margii, it appears that your understanding of god (as defined by you) doesn't require anything of you - that you can live your life however you want. You have previously posted that "nothing is isolated in the universe, nothing can be isolated.. including our desires and thoughts." If true, this would mean ALL opinions and beliefs are part of this god of everything you describe. Meaning, that our individual opinions are merely all just parts of a collective whole, and that we ultimately don't even believe or think separately from your version of god. If true, then nothing we do ultimately matters and good and evil would merely be subjective definitions.

Actually, Margii, it's difficult to understand why you are even here? What is your point? And why do you care what I or any other Christian believes?

Philip wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:48 pm
You have previously posted that "nothing is isolated in the universe, nothing can be isolated.. including our desires and thoughts." If true, this would mean ALL opinions and beliefs are part of this god of everything you describe. Meaning, that our individual opinions are merely all just parts of a collective whole, and that we ultimately don't even believe or think separately from your version of god. If true, then nothing we do ultimately matters and good and evil would merely be subjective definitions.

"If true, then nothing we do ultimately matters and good and evil would merely be subjective definitions"


Here is the central point, you said it:

And we are going to work on two central points: Before everything, you are understanding that if God knows everything, He knows everything, because it is precisely God. And accepting the thesis of the Final Judgment, God already knows who will be judged and who will be judged, who will go to eternal hell and who will not... Then, a senseless final judgment, and even worse, the cosmic creation is a senseless.

I see it differently... God, alone, in nothingness itself... until God decided for himself to create everything.... Where did God take the raw materials to create everything, if only Did God exist before creation? If there was nothing at all, only God existed, then... EVERYTHING comes from God himself.

I ask you to think carefully about these two concepts, before continuing with the central topic, which you reasoned yourself.

There are two values: one absolutely unknown to us, but we can intuit that it is called the infinite, absolute, truly pure. God is this, he is infinite, he has no end, he has no beginning, he has no form, he is not qualifiable, he is not quantifiable...., that is, he is the absolute... and humans cannot understand what the absolute is, because we live in the world of relativities...

Why do we live in the Universe of relativities? because good or bad is relative...

Is it okay to kill? Depends, if it is killing for the sake of killing, it is not correct, but if it is in legitimate defense, it is correct.

Is eating right or wrong? And also depends... if you are hungry, is correct to eat, but if you are satiated, eating more can make you sick or even kill you... Obesity from eating too much is the cause of many diseases, cardiovascular, cancer, diabetes, among many. Others are induced by consuming a lot (and more so when consuming meat)

Is sex good or bad? Without sex, humanity would disappear, in fact mosto of biological life would disappear because sex implies reproduction, so it is good... but sex improperly used generates suffering (abortions, sexual abuse, diseases, etc.), so it depends on how we use it, it can be simply constructive or not.... But this issue is even more difficult to understand: even those who use sex only to procreate, also suffer.... for example when the woman is pregnant, due to the desire to be a mother, and loses her child spontaneously (it is estimated that , for every birth, in a normal couple, there are naturally, between 3 to 10 spontaneous abortions, obviously depending on many factors). Or even more so, whoever wants a strong and healthy child, and ends up having a sick child, with brain damage, etc., don't the parents suffer?

Is having an abundance of money good or bad? Also it depends, whoever has it, may be happy for a moment... but there will also be a lot of suffering, because money alone cannot be taken care of. They have to fight to maintain it, and this often involves criminal acts... And worse still, those who are rich are distrustful, because they know or always think that everyone approaches them for money, not for other reasons...

Everything is relative, even death is a relative fact.... Whether we understand it or not.

You didn't respond to my key questions.

Margii: Why do we live in the Universe of relativities? because good or bad is relative...

Is it okay to kill? Depends, if it is killing for the sake of killing, it is not correct, but if it is in legitimate defense, it is correct.

If you say that God has not stepped into our world or given us knowledge of Himself or values - that it is only intuitive and merely a matter or intuities - WHY is one thing specifically good or bad? IF there has been no standard given to us of rightful behavior, who gets to determine what is right and wrong. One fellow sees stealing and violence as horrible, and yet another sees such things as having valuable means to whatever their personal goals are - and thus view them as being "good." Who's right and who's wrong - if no standards have been given?

Philip wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 10:44 am You didn't respond to my key questions.

Margii: Why do we live in the Universe of relativities? because good or bad is relative...

Is it okay to kill? Depends, if it is killing for the sake of killing, it is not correct, but if it is in legitimate defense, it is correct.

If you say that God has not stepped into our world or given us knowledge of Himself or values - that it is only intuitive and merely a matter or intuities - WHY is one thing specifically good or bad? IF there has been no standard given to us of rightful behavior, who gets to determine what is right and wrong. One fellow sees stealing and violence as horrible, and yet another sees such things as having valuable means to whatever their personal goals are - and thus view them as being "good." Who's right and who's wrong - if no standards have been given?

The game, God's creation, is, in essence, a duality...

God's creation is very simple... It is a supra illusion, in which God is playing with himself (God is the game itself, it is his creation, but at the same time he is not affected by the creation)... His creation It is framed within a duality, of two extremes: one infinite and the other finite: the infinite, the absolute truth, in which the purest rationality is based, to which we intuitively tend, we are progressively advancing towards it, which is the true spirituality, and the other, the mental limitation, which includes the ego of believing that oneself is the absolute truth.

And religions have nothing to do with spiritual truth.... no religion has anything spiritual, because everything that they predicted, what their leaders predicted, is not fulfilled, in addition to the fact that their rules are impracticable and degenerate the human mind. ....

Margii, again you did not answer my specific questions!

Margii: The game, God's creation, is, in essence, a duality...

God's creation is very simple... It is a supra illusion, in which God is playing with himself (God is the game itself, it is his creation, but at the same time he is not affected by the creation)... His creation It is framed within a duality, of two extremes: one infinite and the other finite: the infinite, the absolute truth, in which the purest rationality is based, to which we intuitively tend, we are progressively advancing towards it, which is the true spirituality, and the other, the mental limitation, which includes the ego of believing that oneself is the absolute truth.

And your PROOF that the Creation is a mere illusion is??? And I notice you mention humanity's "mental limitation - so, how do you know the things you claim are true? What is the source of your claims?

Margii: And religions have nothing to do with spiritual truth.... no religion has anything spiritual, because everything that they predicted, what their leaders predicted, is not fulfilled, in addition to the fact that their rules are impracticable and degenerate the human mind. ....

Correct, RELIGIONS are not about spiritual truth - as they are all following man-made deceptions. Christianity, however - which is NOT a religion, and it's certainly not driven by BLIND faith - instead, provides powerful evidences. The fulfilled prophecies about Jesus alone are astounding - impossible for anyone else to have fulfilled. But, for the moment, let's examine just 13 VERY specific and immensely / statistically improbable prophetic fulfillments, along with their calculated probabilities of them having come true (as they did). See this from Reasons.org, a Christian ministry and scientific organization: https://reasons.org/explore/publication ... -the-bible

Philip wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 8:06 pm Margii, again you did not answer my specific questions!

Margii: The game, God's creation, is, in essence, a duality...

God's creation is very simple... It is a supra illusion, in which God is playing with himself (God is the game itself, it is his creation, but at the same time he is not affected by the creation)... His creation It is framed within a duality, of two extremes: one infinite and the other finite: the infinite, the absolute truth, in which the purest rationality is based, to which we intuitively tend, we are progressively advancing towards it, which is the true spirituality, and the other, the mental limitation, which includes the ego of believing that oneself is the absolute truth.

And your PROOF that the Creation is a mere illusion is??? And I notice you mention humanity's "mental limitation - so, how do you know the things you claim are true? What is the source of your claims?

Yes I answered it, but I think it was not clear:

If God is the creator of everything, and before the creation of everything, only God existed in nothingness itself (there was no creation), it means that everything created comes from God himself, or in other words, what is created is God himself, but in a state of relativity (because God at the same time is absolute, where creation is supported). That is, everything we know and do not know is not absolute, but it is God in a relative state (state of creation).

And if everything that God created is relative God, it means that what happens in this entire Cosmos is not an absolute truth... everything that happens is a relative truth.

And on the other hand, if everything that exists is God's creation, creation exists within God... and in a way analogous to an imagination that we, unit minds can carry out, I use the metaphor that God is imagining this Cosmos. ..

And science gives me a certain validity.... It is known that matter, mass, is condensed energy... And energy has no consciousness, but is a "blind force", so if everything that exists In the universe, all the phenomena that occur are a product of this "blind energy or force", it means that something is ordering, guiding, controlling... and if everything that exists is within God, this means that God is governing everything.... But neither you nor I nor anyone is aware that God is governing anything, so we are "dreaming" a reality that does not exist in the absolute sense, so what we feel and understand, as truth , it is an illusion, it is a fiction created by God himself.

Margii: But neither you nor I nor anyone is aware that God is governing anything, so we are "dreaming" a reality that does not exist in the absolute sense, so what we feel and understand, as truth , it is an illusion, it is a fiction created by God himself.

If what we understand is only an illusion created by God, then both your mind, the things you think, and your attempts to explain them would likewise merely be a meaningless and uncertain illusion. I would encourage you to read some explanatory Christian apologetics, to better understand why a perfectly tuned universe and our logical minds, and the incredible testibility of science and so much predicted and fulfilled prophesies show the true God and Creator's identity - which is Jesus Christ. Jesus and the prophets that came and before Him, predicted much of what He has already fulfilled, show Christianity is a faith built upon many powerful, examinable and untestable evidences - and NOT upon conjecture. With your beliefs and the assumed duality they include spring from unknowable, uncertain and unprovable mysticism, ultimately meaning that what we do and how we live our lives ultimately doesn't truly matter and is highly subjective - as this god you describe isn't personal or knowable, and doesn't require anything other than for people to live their lives however they so desire to. But that approach has long led mankind to great evils, mass trauma, and broken lives. Margii, I would highly suggest you go to use the search box and board index to see answers posted in the forum, or for LOTS of scientific evidences for the God of the Bible, visit Reasons.org and begin doing some research and study about how science supports Christianity.

Philip wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:51 pm

Margii: But neither you nor I nor anyone is aware that God is governing anything, so we are "dreaming" a reality that does not exist in the absolute sense, so what we feel and understand, as truth , it is an illusion, it is a fiction created by God himself.

If what we understand is only an illusion created by God, then both your mind, the things you think, and your attempts to explain them would likewise merely be a meaningless and uncertain illusion.

Why?