Evidence for God from Science

What is Islam and who are Muslims?

Islam simply means to achieve peace - peace with God, peace with oneself, and peace with the creations of God - through wholly giving oneself God and accepting His guidance.

Islam is not a new faith. Muslims believe that it is the same truth that God revealed through all His prophets to every people. For a fifth of the world's population, Islam is not just a personal religion, but a complete way of life.
Muslims come from all races, nationalities and cultures across the globe. They have varied languages, foods, dress, and customs; even the way they practice Islam may differ. Yet they all consider themselves to be Muslim.

Islam is a qualitative term - the quality of accepting God's supreme authority above one's own. As such, being a Muslim does not mean having to give up one's culture or traditions; rather it means adopting the simple and logical principles of Islam to better one's life and attain peace.

Less than 15% of Muslims live the Arab world; a fifth are found in Sub-Saharan Africa; and the world's largest Muslim community is in Indonesia. Substantial parts of Asia, and almost all the Central Asian republics, are Muslim. Significant Muslim minorities are found in China, India, Russia, Europe, North America and South America.

What do Muslims believe?

Muslims believe in the One, Unique, Incomparable, Merciful God - the Sole Creator, Sustainer and Cherisher of the Universe; in the Angels created by Him; in the prophets through whom His revelations were brought to humankind; in the Day of Judgment, and in individual accountability for actions; in God's complete authority over destiny, be it good or bad and in life after death.

Muslims believe that God sent His messengers and prophets to all people. Biblical prophets mentioned in the Qur'an include: Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Lot, Ishmael, Isaac, Job, Ezekiel, Jacob, Joseph, Jonah, Jethro, Moses, Aaron, Elijah, Elisha, David, Solomon, Zechariah, John the Baptist, and Jesus; peace be upon them all.

God's final message to humanity was revealed to the last prophet, Muhammad (peace be upon him), through the Archangel Gabriel. It confirmed and finalized all previous revelations that were sent to humankind through God's messengers.

One becomes a Muslim by believing and proclaiming that, "There is no deity except God, and that Muhammad is the messenger of God." By this declaration the believer announces his or her faith in all of God's messengers, and in the scriptures revealed to them.

Who is Allah?

Allah is the proper Arabic name for God. Muslims believe in and worship the same One God that the Jews and Christians worship. Allah says in the Qur'an:

"And do not debate with the People of the Book, unless in the best of manners, but not with those who are unjust, and say: "We believe in the Revelation that has come down to us and in that which has come down to you; Our God and your God is One, and to Him do we wholly give ourselves." (Qur'an 29:46)

Allah is a unique term with no plural an no gender. It predates Muhammad and was also used in the form of El, Elah or Elohim by David, Moses, Jesus and other messengers of God, peace be upon them all.

"He is God, the One that there is no deity but He; the Knower of the unseen and the apparent; He is the Source of All Mercy, the Merciful.

He is God, the One that there is no deity but He; the King, the Holy, the Source of All Peace, the Guardian of Faith, the Preserver, the Mighty, the Compeller, the Majestic; Glory to God, beyond their associations (of partners with Him)!

He is God, the Creator, the Maker, the Fashioner. To Him belong the most beautiful names. All that is in the heavens and the earth magnifies Him; He is the Mighty, the Wise." (Qur'an 59:22-24) [/size]

Dear mosa,

Thank you for your post.

I have studied Islam for years and have come to the conclusion that Muslims believe that they are worshipping the One and Only God, but I do not believe that the Qur'an comes from the same source as the Bible--the One and Only God.

I also have a problem when comparing the prophet of Islam with the prophets of the Bible and especially Jesus. To me there is no comparision. I do not believe that Muhammad was a prophet of God. For Christians, Jesus was the last "prophet" and if we accept His message, there was no need for another prophet or another Holy Book. The Qur'an contradicts past revelations in too many major ways for it to come from the same source.

Best wishes

There is also that warning at the end of Revalations about don't add to the word of God...which the Koran is. Also, wasn't the Koran written after Muhammed died? And how can Jesus just be just a prophet? He would have to been seen as a heretic, a blasphemer to a Muslim, if He was just a prophet...He called Himself God..."I am the Truth, the Way, the Light" which would be a darned lie if He were just a prophet.

What I have to say here I already said here http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... ight=#4145

What is it that you wanted to know about Islam? I am not a Muslim and never was, but I did look into the religion when I wasn't such a strong Christian because I wondered if there was any truth to it. Studying Islam made me a stronger Christian.

The verses of the Qur'an were written during Muhammad's lifetime. It was the Third Muslim Caliph Uthman who put the Qur'an together that may be the Qur'an that the Muslims have today. Unfortunately for the Muslims there were many Qur'ans that were different in the days of Uthman and he gathered them all up and made what I call a "standard" Qur'an and destroyed all the others. I say unfortunate because the Muslims will never know what was destroyed or why it was destroyed or what may have been added or subtracted. There is some evidence that some of the verses are missing.

The Muslims do indeed say that Jesus was "just a prophet." They don't seem to have a conception of what Jesus being the Messiah actually means.

The Muslims do not believe that Jesus claimed to be God, nor do they believe that He died on the cross.

They also do not believe that the Bible--the OT Law or the Gospel in the NT are the original revelations even though the Qur'an praises the past revelations. They say that the Bible has been "corrupted" even though the Qur'an does not say this. But what choice do they have? The Qur'an contradicts the past revelations. It was not until around 1100AD that the allegation of Bible "corruption" came about. This was because the Muslims were learning what the Bible actually said and since the Qur'an praises the past revelations and also contradicts it, their only recourse was to claim Bible "corruption" of that the Bible had been changed. Since the Bible we have today is the same Bible was existed in the times of Muhammad, then when was it "changed"?

I studied the Qur'an and Islam on my own for a while and then started asked questions of Muslims on discussion boards. This is where I learned that the Muslims have different opinions on their faith. I couldn't get definitive answers to some of my questions, but I learned enough.

Peace

Christian2 wrote:What is it that you wanted to know about Islam?

The main thing I'm curious about is the entire concept of Jihad... I've heard many stories about Muslim leaders having to admit that they are commanded to kill people of other faith - I'd like to know for sure whether that's actually true, and what portion of the Qur'an that's derived from. Naturally "moderate" Muslims will dismiss the notion, much like most Jews dismiss the notion of sacrifice, but nevertheless if it's in their holy book then I'd like to know for sure.

Hi Felgar,

I am not sure I can be of much help with this one. This is the definition of Jihad:

This term has never been translated by Muslims to mean holy war. Instead, it means to struggle or exert oneself to his or her utmost potential. In Islam, there are two levels of jihad. The greater jihad most often refers to the inner struggle against evil within oneself with the goal of self-improvement for the betterment of one's community and the world as a whole. The lesser jihad refers to the struggle on the battlefield in self-defense if Muslims have been attacked and their right to practice their faith has been aggressively taken away. " Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress limits. God does not love the transgressors" (Qur'an 2:190). This is an unequivocal statement that only self-defense makes war permissible for Muslims and the goals of war cannot be worldly gain.

Sounds good, doesn't it? The problem is that all Muslims don't practice it and this can be plainly seen by studying the history of Islam. How did it spread? Islam was spread by aggression.

I am not sure that there is really such a thing as a "moderate" Muslim. I believe that the Muslims who consider themselves "moderate" ignore the harsh sayings in the Qur'an (and the harsh examples of the behavior of their prophet) and concentrate on the gentler verses in the Qur'an and sayings in the Hadith collections. These "moderate" Muslims would not be considered "real" Muslims by the more radical Muslims and they are in as much danger from these radicals as we are.

You can read what Daniel Pipes has to say here: http://www.danielpipes.org/article/990

Also take a look at these verses in the Qur'an: http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Themes/index.html

I don't doubt for a moment that there are peaceful Muslims, but I think these Muslims have made the teachings in the Qur'an to be what they want them to be and not what they actually are. In others words, I believe that there are peaceful Muslims but I don't think that the religion of Islam is a religion of peace.

Shalom

Good links C2... Not done reading them, but along the lines that I was looking for.

Interesting that Muslims claim to serve the same God as Christians and Jews, but then were encouraged to make war on the Jews... How could someone believing in God actually make war with His chosen people?

You must make up your own mind about Jihad. I hope the links help.

Interesting that Muslims claim to serve the same God as Christians and Jews, but then were encouraged to make war on the Jews... How could someone believing in God actually make war with His chosen people

Good question. I saw such hatred of Jews on the Islamic discussion boards, that I was really shocked, but then I saw it in the Qur'an, too. I cannot believe that God, after the teachings of Jesus, would teach hatred of Jews in the Qur'an. This hatred started long before the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

But then again, I, as a Christian, am guilty of the worse sin--the unforgiveable sin--believing in the Trinity. I was told that I am a pagan and that I am going to hell and one guy told me that I am possessed by a Jinn. lol

Shalom

Christian2 wrote:But then again, I, as a Christian, am guilty of the worse sin--the unforgiveable sin--believing in the Trinity. I was told that I am a pagan and that I am going to hell and one guy told me that I am possessed by a Jinn.

Uh oh; a Jinn... LOL. What is a Jinn anyways, a particular type of demon?

Yeah the whole religion seems rife with contradiction in my view. Like, how do you profess Jesus to be a prophet but then deny the Trinity? If He was a prophet and spoke truth then the Trinity follows right from that. And if He was lying then frankly He's not worthy of attention at all. There can be no middle ground on the entire matter. At least the Jews are more consistent in that stand...

Oh, one more Q... They profess their's to be the most recent of revelations. Would Muslims therefore recognize the authority of the OT? Could a Christian use the OT as a foundation to establish the Jews as God's beloved and chosen people? Edit: I reread your original post - I guess they would just dismiss the entire OT as being corrupted, because as you pointed out, it's just too contrary to their Qur'an.

Uh oh; a Jinn... LOL. What is a Jinn anyways, a particular type of demon?

Do a google search and ask the question: What are Jinns and see what you get.

The Trinity is denied in the Qur'an. They believe in One God, one person, not One Being in three persons. The Qur'an's "trinity" (according to Christians) is God, Jesus and Mary. No where in the Qur'an does the true Christian Trinity appear--Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Muslims do not believe that Jesus taught the Trinity.

Oh, one more Q... They profess their's to be the most recent of revelations. Would Muslims therefore recognize the authority of the OT? Could a Christian use the OT as a foundation to establish the Jews as God's beloved and chosen people? Edit: I reread your original post - I guess they would just dismiss the entire OT as being corrupted, because as you pointed out, it's just too contrary to their Qur'an.

They believe in the past revelations in the ORIGINAL form. Problem is, they believe that the originals were lost. The Jews lost theirs and the Christians lost theirs. The Muslims only recognize the authority of the Qur'an. From what I have been told, the Muslims do not recognize the Jews as God's chosen people--they lost that by their disobedience. It is now the Muslims who are the chosen people. In fact, some Muslims have told me that that includes the land promised to the Jews in Israel. The Qur'an abrogates the Bible. You may want to read this:

http://www.the-good-way.com/eng/article/a03.htm

See additional subjects that might interest you in the bar at the top of the article.

In addition, all the prophets were Muslims according to the Muslims, even Jesus. "Muslim" would mean someone who submits to God and in that sense we could all be called Muslims because we do submit to God, but certainly not Islamic Muslims, facing Mecca, throwing stones at the devil and kissing the black stone, doing the five prayers per day facing Mecca, etc., etc.

According to the Muslims when Jesus comes back He will condemn us and we will all be Muslims and He will recognize and preach Islam.

Shalom

He called Himself God..."I am the Truth, the Way, the Light" which would be a darned lie if He were just a prophet.

Would you reject Jesus (peace be upon him) too if he were just a prophet like the Jews always did? The quote you refer to says no such thing i.e. "I
am God".

I am the Truth = he is telling the truth as he spoke only what he was commanded to say.

I am The Way = Keep Following the hypocrites (establishment Rel. Order) and you'll go to hell. Follow me and the true Way of God as in its pristine condition.
I am the Light = Again, showing the way to the correct path to God.

They also do not believe that the Bible--the OT Law or the Gospel in the NT are the original revelations even though the Qur'an praises the past revelations. They say that the Bible has been "corrupted" even though the Qur'an does not say this.

Allah tells us about the Jewish scribes in the Holy Quran;

Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say: "This is from Allah" to traffic with it for a miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write and for the gain they make thereby. 2:79

Musa(Moses)(peace be upon him) also warns;

Deu. 31:29 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt[yourselves], and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days;because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.

and also Jeremiah(peacebeuponhim) relayed this message;

8:8 How can you say, "We are wise, we have the law of the LORD"? Why, that has been changed into falsehood by the lying pen of the scribes!

So we say we do not know what is true and what is false anymore in the bible. Do you not believe your own book?

8:8 How can you say, "We are wise, we have the law of the LORD"? Why, that has been changed into falsehood by the lying pen of the scribes!

Yeah the whole religion seems rife with contradiction in my view. Like, how do you profess Jesus to be a prophet but then deny the Trinity?

4:171. O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allâh aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Isa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allâh and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rûh) created by Him; so believe in Allâh and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allâh is (the only) One Ilâh (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allâh is All­Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs.

There is no reference to 'trinity' in the bible.

There was a reference to trinity in 1 John 5

7 For there are three that bear record [in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth], the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

But truth has prevailed and the church scholars have deleted it saying that it was a false.

here's the new...

7 There are three that testify: 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood, and these three agree.

Also there is not even a whiff of trinity from the O.T. and Jesus (peace be
upon him) confirm time and time again...

One of the scribes, when he came forward and heard them disputing and saw how well he had answered them, asked him, "Which is the first of all the commandments?"

Jesus replied, "The first is this: 'Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is Lord alone!

You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul,
with all your mind, and with all your strength.'

Oh, one more Q... They profess their's to be the most recent of revelations. Would Muslims therefore recognize the authority of the OT?

Why would you say that? When a revision of a book is issued the revised
version is considered the most reliable.

Could a Christian use the OT as a foundation to establish the Jews as God's beloved and chosen people?

I think you would find that the OT and The Quran are birds of the same
feather as far as what they profess...

And again citing Jesus (peace be upon him) in reference to what is written in the OT...

'Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is Lord alone!

You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.'

Ibrahim (peace be upon him) was from Iraq. All three religions trace back to Ibrahim (peace be upon him) do we not?

3:65. O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Why do you dispute about Ibrâhim (Abraham), while the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) were not revealed till after him? Have you then no sense?

3:66. Verily, you are those who have disputed about that of which you have knowledge. Why do you then dispute concerning that which you have no knowledge? It is Allâh Who knows, and you know not.

3:67. Ibrâhim (Abraham) was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was a true Muslim Hanifa (Islâmic Monotheism - to worship none but Allâh Alone) and he was not of Al-Mushrikûn (one who makes partners with Allah).

I hope this clears up some misconceptions for you. With the admin's permission I would be happy to discuss further with you the similarities and differences between our religions.

Hi Muhammad,

A few questions:
1. How do you as a Muslim get to know God? How are you saved, ie how do you get eternal life?
2. How old is the Qur'an?
3. Where/what are the source documents of the Qur'an, i.e. the original manuscripts?

More to follow...

G'Day August...

Thanks for your questions. I'll try my best to answer...

1. How do you as a Muslim get to know God?

The very first verses that came to Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) from the Angel Gibril (Gabriel)were…

96:1. Icra! (Recite!) In the Name of your Lord, Who has created (all that exists),
96:2. Has created man from a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood).
96:3. Recite! And your Lord is the Most Generous,
96:4. Who has taught (the writing) by the pen [the first person to write was Prophet Idrees (Enoch)],
96:5. Has taught man that which he knew not.

Some translate Icra as read rather than recite. But the first instruction is clear. To learn. By knowledge one comes to know God. And with knowledge sure solid unshakeable faith.

14. Is he who is on a clear proof from his Lord, like those for whom their evil deeds that they do are beautified for them, while they follow their own lusts (evil desires)?

15. The description of Paradise which the Muttaqûn (pious) have been promised is that in it are rivers of water the taste and smell of which are not changed; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine delicious to those who drink; and rivers of clarified honey (clear and pure) there-in for them is every kind of fruit; and forgiveness from their Lord. (Are these) like those who shall dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels?

16. And among them are some who listen to you (O Muhammad SAW) till, when they go out from you, they say to those who have received knowledge: "What has he said just now? Such are men whose hearts Allâh has sealed, and they follow their lusts (evil desires).

17. While as for those who accept guidance, He increases their guidance, and bestows on them their piety.

18. Do they then await (anything) other than the Hour, that it should come upon them suddenly? But some of its portents (indications and signs) have already come, and when it (actually) is on them, how can they benefit then by their reminder?

19. So know (O Muhammad SAW) that Lâ ilâha ill-Allâh (none has the right to be worshipped but Allâh), and ask forgiveness for your sin, and also for (the sin of) believing men and believing women. And Allâh knows well your moving about, and your place of rest (in your homes).

So “know that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah” is an order. It (knowledge) is the roadmap to find the Way to salvation. Love from God comes with conditions…

31. Say (O Muhammad SAW to mankind): "If you (really) love Allâh then follow me (i.e. accept Islâmic Monotheism, follow the Qur'ân and the Sunnah), Allâh will love you and forgive you of your sins. And Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

32. Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Obey Allâh and the Messenger (Muhammad SAW)." But if they turn away, then Allâh does not like the disbelievers.

To gain Allah's love and forgiveness we must follow His final Book and what His Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) came with. This requires devotion and knowledge to ensure one keeps to the straight path.

How are you saved, ie how do you get eternal life?

We are saved by the Grace and Mercy of The Creator. The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful. All the good deeds will count for nothing without His mercy.

39:53. Say: "O 'Ibâdî (My slaves) who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of Allâh, verily Allâh forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

48:14. And to Allâh belongs the sovereignty of the heavens and the earth, He forgives whom He wills, and punishes whom He wills. And Allâh is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

But there is only one unforgiveable sin…the worship of another god…be it an idol or a golden calf or a sacrificial lamb.

4:116. Verily! Allâh forgives not (the sin of) setting up partners in worship with Him, but He forgives whom he pleases sins other than that, and whoever sets up partners in worship with Allâh, has indeed strayed far away.

2. How old is the Qur'an? 3. Where/what are the source documents of the Qur'an, i.e. the original manuscripts?

Here's a link to your questions #2 and #3…
http://www.themodernreligion.com/basic/ ... vation.htm

Hello Muhammad,

Please see the following information:

Source: http://debate.org.uk/topics/history/bib-qur/qurmanu.htm

MANUSCRIPT ANALYSIS:

Let's then begin by looking at the area of manuscript evidence. What manuscripts do we have in Islam which can corroborate the authenticity of the Qur'an that we have in our hands today, and likewise, what Christian manuscripts are available to validate the Bible?

THE QUR'AN'S MANUSCRIPT EVIDENCE:

A manuscript analysis of the Qur'an does present us with unique problems not encountered with the Bible. While we can find multiple manuscripts for the Bible written 700-900 years earlier, at a time when durable paper was not even used, the manuscripts for the Qur'an within the century in which it was purported to have been compiled, the seventh century, simply do not exist. Prior to 750 A.D. (thus for 100 years after Muhammad's death) we have no verifiable Muslim documents which can give us a window into this formative period of Islam (Wansbrough 1978:58-59). In fact the primary sources which we possess are from 150-300 years after the events which they describe, and therefore are quite distant from those events (Nevo 1994:108; Wansbrough 1978:119; Crone 1987:204). For that reason they are, for all practical purposes, secondary sources, as they rely on other material, much of which no longer exists. We simply do not have any "account from the Islamic' community during the [initial] 150 years or so, between the first Arab conquests [the early 7th century] and the appearance, with the sira-maghazi narratives, of the earliest Islamic literature" [the late 8th century] (Wansbrough 1978:119).

We should expect to find, in those intervening 150 years, at least remnants of evidence for the development of the old Arab religion towards Islam (i.e. Muslim traditions); yet we find nothing (Nevo 1994:108; Crone 1980:5-8). The documentary evidence at our disposal, prior to 750 A.D. "consists almost entirely of rather dubious citations in later compilations" (Humphreys 1991:80). Consequently, we have no reliable proof that the later Muslim traditions speak truly of the life of Muhammad, or even of the Qur'an (Schacht 1949:143-154). In fact we have absolutely no evidence for the original Qur'anic text (Schimmel 1984:4). Nor do we have any of the alleged four copies which were made of this recension and sent to Mecca, Medina, Basra and Damascus (see Gilchrist's arguments in his book Jam' al-Qur'an, 1989, pp. 140-154, as well as Ling's & Safadi's The Qur'an 1976, pp. 11-17).

Even if these copies had somehow disintegrated with age (as some Muslims now allege), there would surely be some fragments of the documents which we could refer to. By the end of the seventh century Islam had expanded from Spain in the west to India in the east. The Qur'an (according to tradition) was the centrepiece of their faith. Certainly within that enormous sphere of influence there would be some Qur'anic documents or manuscripts which still exist till this day. Yet, there is nothing anywhere from that period at all.

With the enormous number of manuscripts available for the Christian scriptures, all compiled long before the time Muhammad was born, it is incredible that Islam cannot provide a single corroborated manuscript of their most holy book from even within a century of their founder's birth.

(1) Sammarkand and Topkapi MSS; Kufic and Ma'il Scripts:

In response, Muslims contend that they do have a number of these "Uthmanic recensions," these original copies from the seventh century, still in their possession. There are two documents which do hold some credibility, and to which many Muslims refer. These are the Samarkand Manuscript, which is located in the Tashkent library, Uzbekistan (in the southern part of the former Soviet Union), and the Topkapi Manuscript, which can be found in the Topkapi Museum, in Istanbul, Turkey.

These two documents are indeed old, and there has been ample etymological analysis done on them by scriptologists, as well as experts in Arabic calligraphy to warrant their discussion. What most Muslims do not realize is that these two manuscripts are written in the Kufic Script, a script which according to modern Qur'anic manuscript experts, such as Martin Lings and Yasin Hamid Safadi, did not appear until late into the eighth century, and was not in use at all in Mecca and Medina in the seventh century (Lings & Safadi 1976:12-13,17; Gilchrist 1989:145-146; 152-153).

The reasons for this are quite simple. Consider: The Kufic script, properly known as al-Khatt al-Kufi, derives its name from the city of Kufa in Iraq (Lings & Safadi 1976:17). It would be rather odd for this script to have been adopted as the official script for the "mother of all books" as it is a script which had its origins in a city that had only been conquered by the Arabs a mere 10-14 years earlier.

It is important to note that the city of Kufa, which is in present day Iraq, was a city which would have been Sassanid or Persian before that time (637-8 A.D.). Thus, while Arabic would have been known there, it would not have been the predominant language, let alone the predominant script until much later.

We know in fact, that the Kufic script reached its perfection during the late eighth century (up to one hundred and fifty years after Muhammad's death) and thereafter it became widely used throughout the Muslim world (Lings & Safadi 1976:12,17; Gilchrist 1989:145-146). This makes sense, since after 750 A.D. the Abbasids controlled Islam, and due to their Persian background were headquartered in the Kufa and Baghdad areas. They would thus have wanted their script to dominate. Having been themselves dominated by the Umayyads (who were based in Damascus) for around 100 years, it would now be quite understandable that an Arabic script which originated in their area of influence, such as the Kufic script would evolve into that which we find in these two documents mentioned here.

Therefore, it stands to reason that both the Topkapi and Samarkand Manuscripts, because they are written in the Kufic script, could not have been written earlier than 150 years after the Uthmanic Recension was supposedly compiled; at the earliest the late 700s or early 800s (Gilchrist 1989:144-147).

We do know that there were two earlier Arabic scripts which most modern Muslims are not familiar with. These are the al-Ma'il Script, developed in the Hijaz, particularly in Mecca and Medina, and the Mashq Script, also developed in Medina (Lings & Safadi 1976:11; Gilchrist 1989:144-145). The al-Ma'il Script came into use in the seventh century and is easily identified, as it was written at a slight angle (see the example on page 16 of Gilchrist's Jam' al-Qur'an, 1989). In fact the word al-Ma'il means "slanting." This script survived for about two centuries before falling into disuse.

The Mashq Script also began in the seventh century, but continued to be used for many centuries. It is more horizontal in form and can be distinguished by its somewhat cursive and leisurely style (Gilchrist 1989:144). There are those who believe that the Mashq script was a forerunner to the later Kufic script, as there are similarities between the two.

If the Qur'an had been compiled at this time in the seventh century, then one would expect it to have been written in either the Ma'il or Mashq script.

Interestingly, we do have a Qur'an written in the Ma'il script, and considered to be the earliest Qur'an in our possession today. Yet it is not found in either Istanbul or Tashkent, but, ironically, it resides in the British Museum in London (Lings & Safadi 1976:17,20; Gilchrist 1989:16,144). It has been dated towards the end of the eighth century (790 A.D.) by Martin Lings, the former curator for the manuscripts of the British Museum, who is himself, a practising Muslim.

Therefore, with the help of script analysis, we are quite certain that there is no known manuscript of the Qur'an which we possess today which can be dated from the seventh century (Gilchrist 1989:147-148,153).
Furthermore, virtually all the earliest Qur'anic manuscript fragments which we do possess cannot be dated earlier than 100 years after the time of Muhammad. In her book Calligraphy and Islamic Culture, Annemarie Schimmel underlines this point when she states that apart from the recently discovered [Korans] in Sanaa, "the earliest datable fragments go back to the first quarter of the eighth century." (Schimmels 1984:4)

From the evidence we possess, therefore, it would seem improbable that any portions of the Qur'an supposedly copied out at Uthman's direction have survived. What we are left with is the intervening 150 years for which we cannot account.

(2) Talmudic Sources in the Qur'an:
Another problem with manuscript evidence for the Qur'an is that of the heretical Talmudic accounts found within its passages. Possibly the greatest puzzlement for Christians who pick up the Qur'an and read it are the numerous seemingly Biblical stories which bear little similarity to the Biblical accounts. The Qur'anic stories include many distortions, amendments, and some bizarre additions to the familiar stories we have known and learned. So, we ask, where did these stories come from, if not from the previous scriptures?

Fortunately, we do have much Jewish and Christian apocryphal literature (some of it from the Talmud), dating from the second century A.D. with which we can compare many of these stories. It is when we do so, that we find remarkable similarities between these fables or folk tales of the later Jewish and Christian communities, and the stories which are recounted in the Qur'an (note:Talmudic material taken from Feinburg 1993:1162-1163).

The Jewish Talmudic writings were compiled in the second century A.D., from oral laws (Mishnah) and traditions of those laws (Gemara). These laws and traditions were created to adapt the law of Moses (the Torah) to the changing times. They also included interpretations and discussions of the laws (the Halakhah and Haggadah etc.). Most Jews do not consider the Talmudic writings authoritative, but they read them nonetheless with interest for the light they cast on the times in which they were written.

Each generation embellished the accounts, or at times incorporated local folklore, so that it was difficult to know what the original stories contained. There were even those among the Jews who believed that these Talmudic writings had been added to the "preserved tablets" (i.e. the Ten Commandments, and the Torah which were kept in the Ark of the Covenant), and were believed to be replicas of the heavenly book (Feinburg 1993:1163).

Some orientalist scholars believe that when later Islamic compilers came onto the scene, in the eighth to ninth centuries A.D., they merely added this body of literature to the nascent Qur'anic material. It is therefore, not surprising that a number of these traditions from Judaism were inadvertently accepted by later redactors, and incorporated into the holy writings' of Islam.

There are quite a few stories which have their root in second century (A.D.) Jewish apocryphal literature; stories such as the murder of Abel by Cain in sura 5:31-32, borrowed from the Targum of Jonathan-ben-Uzziah and the Mishnah Sanhedrin 4:5; or the story of Abraham, the idols and the fiery furnace in sura 21:51-71, taken from the Midrash Rabbah; or the amusing story found in sura 27:17-44, of Solomon, his talking Hoopoo bird, and the queen of Sheba who lifts her skirt when mistaking a mirrored floor for water, taken from the 2nd Targum of Esther.

There are other instances where we find both apocryphal Jewish and Christian literatures within the Qur'anic text. The account of Mt. Sinai being lifted up and held over the heads of the Jews as a threat for rejecting the law (sura 7:171) comes from the second century Jewish apocryphal book, The Abodah Sarah. The odd accounts of the early childhood of Jesus in the Qur'an can be traced to a number of Christian apocryphal writings: the Palm tree which provides for the anguish of Mary after Jesus's birth (sura 19:22-26) comes from The Lost Books of the Bible; while the account of the infant Jesus creating birds from clay (sura 3:49) comes from Thomas' Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ. The story of the baby Jesus talking (sura 19:29-33) can be traced to Arabic apocryphal fable from Egypt named The first Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ.

In sura 17:1 we have the report of Muhammad's journey by night from the sacred mosque to the farthest mosque.' From later traditions we find this aya refers to Muhammad ascending up to the seventh heaven, after a miraculous night journey (the Mi'raj) from Mecca to Jerusalem, on a "winged-horse" called Buraq. More detail is furnished us in the Mishkat al Masabih. We can trace the story back to a fictitious book called The Testament of Abraham, written around 200 B.C., in Egypt, and then translated into Greek and Arabic. Another analogous account is that of The Secrets of Enoch ( chapter 1:4-10 and 2:1), which predates the Qur'an by four centuries. Yet a further similar account is largely modelled on the story contained in the old Persian book entitled Arta-i Viraf Namak, telling how a pious young Zoroastrian ascended to the skies, and, on his return, related what he had seen, or professed to have seen (Pfander 1835:295-296).

The Qur'anic description of Hell resembles the descriptions of hell in the Homilies of Ephraim, a Nestorian preacher of the sixth century (Glubb 1971:36).

The author of the Qur'an in suras 42:17 and 101:6-9 possibly utilized The Testament of Abraham to teach that a scale or balance will be used on the day of judgment to weigh good and bad deeds in order to determine whether one goes to heaven or to hell.

It is important to remember that the Talmudic accounts were not considered by the orthodox Jews of that period as authentic for one very good reason: they were not in existence at the council of Jamnia in 80 A.D. when the Old Testament was canonized. Neither were the Christian apocryphal material considered canonical, as they were not attested as authoritative both prior to and after the council of Nicea in 325 A.D. Thus these accounts have always been considered as heretical by both the Jewish and Christian orthodox believers, and the literate ever since. It is for this reason that we find it deeply suspicious that the apocryphal accounts should have made their way into a book claiming to be the final revelation from the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Why was Hafsa's copy of the Qur'an destroyed? It would seem to me that this would be a very precious book.

What about this? The January 1999 edition of The Atlantic Monthly featured the article What is the Koran?

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/99jan/koran.htm

You will need to sign up for a membership in order to read this report. It is about Korans found in Yemen which don't match up to the current Koran and well worth a Muslim's review. Please read this report about the Korans in Yemen:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/soc ... ca8e2e08bb

Shalom