The Bible, just a historical document?

Darwin_Rocks · Post by **Darwin_Rocks** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:56 am

I've been doing some thinking regarding the nature of the Bible and faith and upon reading most of the New Testament (I could only attempt to read the OT) and from what I can see, The Bible is just a historical document and whilst it is an important one (most societies base their laws upon it) it is subject to the same sorts of problems of evidence as face by documents through out the ages.

I dont see the difference between the birth of Jesus by the virgin Mary and the Birth by the God Amun of Hatshepsut the famous Egyptian pharoh, both are ancient documents both are just as likely to be true as each other.

By the way, I realise that comparing Christ to a Pagan God is probably going to get me banned but I am seriously curious, How can you guys honestly take is seriously without quesiton the validity of the words?

Mastermind · Post by **Mastermind** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:44 am

Because Amun didn't leave us a document that give us such an insightful description of the true nature of man, a decription only our creator could have come up with.

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:17 am

Most pagan gods aren't located within a particular time and place in history. This was something I believe was argued by Christians over and against their pagan rivals. Christianity was unique in that it spoke of an actual person who lived and walked the earth within a particular time and setting. A person whom people saw, heard, knew, and spoke with. It was based in reality.

As such one needs to examine the historical evidence for Christ to understand who He was. The most important event for Christians surrounds the resurrection. If Christ was not resurrected, then He is just a man who had a following and gave false hope. Yet, if Christ was resurrected, then His claims are verified including His claim to divinity and His claim to be able to forgive us personally (something only reserved for God). There are many links I could provide you with, but I perhaps recommending beginning with http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcrai ... over2.html.

Kurieuo.

Prodigal Son · Post by **Prodigal Son** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:15 am

both are just as likely to be true..

not really. the bible has shown itself time and again to be completely accurate. it is not only the most accurate historical document in existence, but it has revealed modern scientific discoveries thousands of years in advance. it has never been proven wrong.

Darwin_Rocks · Post by **Darwin_Rocks** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:23 pm

I dont know, it just seems shakey to live your entire life by a book produced almost two thousands years ago. I think the question that needs to be asked is, Is the Bible truly the word of God?

Deborah · Post by **Deborah** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:58 pm

Darwin_Rocks wrote:I dont know, it just seems shakey to live your entire life by a book produced almost two thousands years ago. I think the question that needs to be asked is, Is the Bible truly the word of God?

In gods word he Commands us to prove all things, my revelation of the word of god is that it has a message and that message is love mankind and god with all that you are, then you are ready for a eternity with god.
He wants this for us so badly, that he also provides the steps to acheive this final goal.

God says that he has planted his word in our hearts, after my near death exp I felt I had all this knowledge that I did not yet understand. Such knowledge needs wisdom and this is not from man.
As christians, we depend on the holyspirit to teach us wisdom and the meaning of the word of god. So we do not exactly live our intire lives on what you call a book!

It's 66 books

Prodigal Son · Post by **Prodigal Son** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:12 pm

I think the question that needs to be asked is, Is the Bible truly the word of God.

that question has been asked and has been answered...yes, it is.

it just seems shakey to live your entire life by a book produced almost two thousands years ago.

not when it's authority and accuracy has been proven over and over again. and definately not when it changes life after life for the better.

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:58 pm

Darwin_Rocks wrote:I dont know, it just seems shakey to live your entire life by a book produced almost two thousands years ago. I think the question that needs to be asked is, Is the Bible truly the word of God?

People still rely on Aristotle, Plato, and many other Greek philosophers when dealing with law and science. These people are far older than the New Testament.

Are you saying this people have shaky reasoning?

The Bible is like an anvil:

Last eve I passed beside a blacksmith's door,
And heard the anvil ring the vesper chime;
Then, looking in, I saw upon the floor
Old hammers, worn with beating years of time.
"How many anvils have you had," said I,
"To wear and batter all these hammers so?"
"Just one," said he, and then, with twinkling eye,
"The anvil wears the hammers out, you know."

And so, thought I, the anvil of God's Word,
For ages skeptic blows have beat upon;
Yet, though the noise of falling blows was heard,
The anvil is unharmed--the hammers gone.

-Anonymous Poet

Since the Bible isn't older than many other sources of information that are still used today, AND it has been constantly proven to be solid and impregnable, basing your life in it is wiser than anything else in the world.

AttentionKMartShoppers · Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:08 pm

I dont know, it just seems shakey to live your entire life by a book produced almost two thousands years ago. I think the question that needs to be asked is, Is the Bible truly the word of God?

It is actually a rather firm foundation. It is a truth giver. It can be applied to anything-except cooking

Jesus' recipe for all that food from so few ingredients will forever be unknown.

August · Post by **August** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:31 am

I dont know, it just seems shakey to live your entire life by a book produced almost two thousands years ago.

As opposed to basing our life on what?

I think the question that needs to be asked is, Is the Bible truly the word of God?

It's a great question. What would you consider to be valid proof that the Bible is the word of God? Or are your beliefs such that it precludes you from accepting any proof?

Darwin_Rocks · Post by **Darwin_Rocks** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:09 pm

People still rely on Aristotle, Plato, and many other Greek philosophers when dealing with law and science.

Yes but Plato, Aristotle and other Greek Philosephers don't claim to be the absolute word of God, and Aristotle DID NOT claim to be the messiah. What I truly find hard to believe is that people are so willing to accept Jesus even though he has been dead for thousands of years. How do you know that Jesus is the right answer?

How do you know that the Bible isn't wrong and say the teachings of Buddha or the Torah are right?

Mastermind · Post by **Mastermind** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:06 pm

Explaining to you why the Bible is right is like explaining to somebody who was born blind what it's like to see.

Prodigal Son · Post by **Prodigal Son** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:31 pm

we accept Jesus because he has given sufficient evidence to prove he was the messiah...evidence strong enough to withstand thousands of years of time.

we know the bible is the word of God because we trust Jesus and he said it was. we believe it because the bible has proved to be the word of God again and again.

buddha, the torah, etc., may have some nice and worthwhile and positive things to say and teach, but they do not ackowledge Jesus' divinity, a core concept to christianity. these sources are also far from accurate when compared to the bible--in realms of science, philosophy, psychology, etc. i think that's more than enough reason to trust the bible. the bible is not wrong because it has always proved itself to be right.

Jesus is the right way for all of these reasons and more.

August · Post by **August** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:37 pm

we accept Jesus because he has given sufficient evidence to prove he was the messiah...evidence strong enough to withstand thousands of years of time.

we know the bible is the word of God because we trust Jesus and he said it was. we believe it because the bible has proved to be the word of God again and again.

I agree with Colors, and furthermore, the Bible is infallible, "breathed" by God, and describes the only way to eternal salvation.

I guess the next question will be: So prove it....See my earlier response, what will constitute proof?

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:21 pm

Darwin_Rocks wrote:
People still rely on Aristotle, Plato, and many other Greek philosophers when dealing with law and science.
Yes but Plato, Aristotle and other Greek Philosephers don't claim to be the absolute word of God, and Aristotle DID NOT claim to be the messiah. What I truly find hard to believe is that people are so willing to accept Jesus even though he has been dead for thousands of years. How do you know that Jesus is the right answer?

How do you know that the Bible isn't wrong and say the teachings of Buddha or the Torah are right?

I think you have valid questions, and one can know right from wrong by testing the claims of each. A problem with testing however, is that our judgements are coloured with our subjectiveness. Yet, a good book I'd recommend to all is called The Universe Next Door, which introduces basics within various worldviews. The most we can probably hope for is to keep our own beliefs consistent, and if they are consistent on all we believe, then such a belief is a real possibility. I've found many beliefs people have had, even whole worldviews, to be inconsistent, and so on these grounds, I've rejected many and remained on Christianity which belongs to the Theistic worldview.

Yet, I think it is safe to say a fair amount of Christians today have accepted Christ without looking into any evidence for or against Christ let alone their worldview. I would encourage such Christians to examine their faith after their Christianity, as I really believe it is based on solid rational foundations. Loving God with our minds is also commanded, as is testing and holding onto the good (1 Thessalonians 5:21). We are also commanded to give a response for the hope that is within us (1 Peter 3:15).

Perhaps people so easily accepting God's existence (and not just within Christianity) comes down to an innate awareness that God of some sort does exist, as proven by peoples within all sorts of cultures throughout history... but in addition, Christianity says that God will reveal Himself to all who seek. And so when God does reveal Himself to someone, then objections and evidence becomes kind of secondary. Now Christ's own claims can be tested by examining Christ Himself. Just because such events happened about 2000 years ago, it does not mean we can't examine the evidence we have today. Of course it makes the evidence easier to dismiss, but for historians who understand and take their work seriously, the evidence for Christ becomes rather hard to dismiss.

Kurieuo.