Evidence for God from Science

cool book i'm reading : If you want to walk on water, you have to step out of the boat by John Ortberg.

anyone else read it?

you guys recommend any good books?

Never read that book.

I can't load the page with my books I plan on reading, but I'd read some stuff by Francis-ooh, it loads now. He is there and He is not silent by Schaeffer (someone told me I should read it), and stuff by GK Chesterton, my new hero at the moment...as my posts show...Possibly Everlasting Man, Orthodoxy, The Man Who Was Thursday....I think those are all good...oh, and the Ball and Cross, that's supposed to be good....he's humorous...and sometimes nonsensical.

I intend to read the Summa Theologica eventually, as well as some GK Chesterton stuff.

I love G.K. Chesterton, although all I've read of his so far is a few articles, but I was very tempted to buy 'orthadoxy' when we were in the city today, but since I had already picked out two other books, I thought I should wait. . lol. I also love reading C.S. Lewis(screwtape letters is my favorite so far, very enlightening), Bishop Fulton J. Sheen, St. Thomas Aquinas, and St. Augustine. And other writings of the early church fathers and the saints. I also love Scott hahn(although I like his tapes far better than his books)

I've only really started reading these kind of books sometime around christmas, so I haven't gotten as much reading done as I would like, between schoolwork, and other respponsibilities.

Before that, I was literally addicted to romance books(which I now see as a waste of time, plus, even though I only read Christian romance books, alot of them were...morally wrong? bad choice of words, but nothing else came to mind).

Anyone ever read "The Spritual Combat" or "The imitation of Christ?"

have only read a few chapters of the spiritual combat, but its a great book. I thought I might want to finish a few other books I was working on before I read the imitation though.

To answer the original question , I've never read the book: :If you want to walk on water, you have to step out of the boat" by John Ortberg.

Now that this post is getting WAY to long, and the majority of it is pointless, I'll say bye (for now)!

Hey there,

I am enjoying Lee Strobel the 3 cases and Rick Warren the Purpose Driven Life!!

alanna,

the imitation of christ and the spiritual combat both sound good. i might check them out. i think i might get the screwtape letters and beyond mere christianity first, though.

bizzt,

read all 3 of the cases and the purpose driven life...they're all awesome.

attentionkmartshoppers,

possibly everlasting man, orthodoxy, and man who was thursday...what are they about?

dan,

can you tell me more about gk chesterton?

I'm slowly trying to build up a respectable Christian library filled with the classics, (Christian, that is,) biographies on people God used mightily, tons of references, theological books, and doctrinal ones. I'm not yet that interested in commentaries or devotionals, so I only have a handful of each. Oh, and some on the history of Christianity; I need more of those. My favorite authors are Andrew Murray, Miles J. Stanford, (The Complete Green Letters,) Hannah Whitall Smith, ( The Christian's Secret to a Happy Life,) George MacDonald, Watchman Nee, and Madame Guyon, (her autobiography.) I also really enjoyed C.S. Lewis' Narnia Collection. I'm not decided on the man himself yet, but those books are superb! I've been getting the magazines "Popular Science" and "Scientific American" for a little while now. Those are fun to read. And now I need a good collection of books on physics and progressive creationism vs. evolution! Recommendations?

And what do you more knowledgable people think of Strobel's The Case for a Creator? Is it as accurate as it seems to me? And who else doesn't like the chapter on consciousness? "Idiot," I think you asked me about that book and Evidence That Demands a Verdict. It's the chapter on consciousness that I don't in Strobel's. A number of the theological arguments in McDowell's made me shake my head as well. But it's a great apologetic when it speaks on history and the Bible and all that! That's definitely an awesome read!

kateliz wrote:I'm slowly trying to build up a respectable Christian library filled with the classics, (Christian, that is,) biographies on people God used mightily, tons of references, theological books, and doctrinal ones. I'm not yet that interested in commentaries or devotionals, so I only have a handful of each. Oh, and some on the history of Christianity; I need more of those. My favorite authors are Andrew Murray, Miles J. Stanford, (The Complete Green Letters,) Hannah Whitall Smith, ( The Christian's Secret to a Happy Life,) George MacDonald, Watchman Nee, and Madame Guyon, (her autobiography.) I also really enjoyed C.S. Lewis' Narnia Collection. I'm not decided on the man himself yet, but those books are superb! I've been getting the magazines "Popular Science" and "Scientific American" for a little while now. Those are fun to read. And now I need a good collection of books on physics and progressive creationism vs. evolution! Recommendations?

And what do you more knowledgable people think of Strobel's The Case for a Creator? Is it as accurate as it seems to me? And who else doesn't like the chapter on consciousness? "Idiot," I think you asked me about that book and Evidence That Demands a Verdict. It's the chapter on consciousness that I don't in Strobel's. A number of the theological arguments in McDowell's made me shake my head as well. But it's a great apologetic when it speaks on history and the Bible and all that! That's definitely an awesome read!

I believe another Great one is William lane Craig
I like his works in any case http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/

bizzt wrote:Hey there,

I am enjoying Lee Strobel the 3 cases and Rick Warren the Purpose Driven Life!!

Purpose Driven Life is what saved a lady in Georgia. A murderer who shot his way out of the courtroom caught her, and they went to her apartment. She cooked him breakfast, and read to him one chapter from that book, and he not only didn't kill her, but turned himself into the police. WHAT IS IT ABOUT THOUGH? (more in depth than the title, please).

kateliz, read Fox's book of Martyrs. It's about martyrs during the Reformation, and possibly later as well.

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:

bizzt wrote:Hey there,

I am enjoying Lee Strobel the 3 cases and Rick Warren the Purpose Driven Life!!

Purpose Driven Life is what saved a lady in Georgia. A murderer who shot his way out of the courtroom caught her, and they went to her apartment. She cooked him breakfast, and read to him one chapter from that book, and he not only didn't kill her, but turned himself into the police. WHAT IS IT ABOUT THOUGH? (more in depth than the title, please).

kateliz, read Fox's book of Martyrs. It's about martyrs during the Reformation, and possibly later as well.

Doh the Title was my best answer . It basically a great book to make you become more purpose driven in Pleasing Christ. Knowing your Strengths and Weaknesses in Christ and Acting upon them. Great BOOK

Oh, goodness. What is the "Purpose-Driven Life" not about? It's so packed full of awesome information and insights that I sometimes half-jokingly refer to it as "The Christian Manifesto."

It's about discovering the purpose that God made you for. The 5 general purposes are listed -- for God's pleasure, to be like Christ, for God's family, and a couple others that escape me at the moment -- and it gives you great information on how to go about discovering God's more specific purpose(s) for your life.

It tells you all the general stuff that every Christian should familiarize himself with, but it won't tell you specifically "You were made to travel to Indonesia for 3 years, found a short-lived church that will be overrun by militants, and subsequently travel to China where you'll die in a small hut surrounded by a few close friends who came to Christ due to your testimony and sharing of Christ's love."

You'll have to figure out that suff on your own.

Currently, I'm reading on a few books.
Case for a Creator -- Lee Strobel
Courage to Be Christian -- Mike Nappa
Way of the Master -- Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron
What Hollywood Believes -- Ray Comfort
Unveling Islam -- Ergun & Emir Caner
Stop Dating the Church -- Joshua Harris
How to Get a Date Worth Keeping -- Dr. Henry Cloud
Jesus and Muhammad -- Mark A. Gabriel, PhD
Islam and Terrorism -- Mark A. Gabriel, PhD
Wild at Heart -- John Eldridge
Paul: a Man of Grace and Grit -- Charles R. Swindoll

As you can tell, I have a hard time committing to just one book. I'm actually reading on all of those. I started going to the gym a few weeks ago, and that helps a lot. It's really easy to focus on a single book when I'm on the treadmill.

As you can tell, I have a small interest in Islam and its differences from Christianity. They're quite huge, actually. All of the above books concerning Islam are written by people with doctorates who are also Islam-to-Christian converts. The Caner bros. doctorates are actually in theology. I'm not sure what subject Mark Gabriel's PhD is in.

I actually have a lot more books than the above -- I began around Christmas and am amassing a small library. I fear I'll never get around to reading them all...but I'm not too concerned.

I'd love to read the other biographies from Chuck Swindoll. I'm really enjoying his thorough look at the life of Paul. I got Paul's biography first because what I know of his life makes him...well, kind of my personal role model. I want to be the kind of person who pushes forward no matter what, and who is never afraid to speak the truth, even when the people hearing it don't like what they hear. With the proper amount of tact, of course, but not so much that it goes beyond tact and becomes cowardice.

Oh, goodness...I just love reading, and can't get enough lately. I have to limit my trips to the Christian bookstore because there's just...well, a heap of goodness around every corner. And all that goodness adds up fast(I'm talking dollars, here). I'm sure other readers here know what I'm talking about.

I'm also interested in the works of CS Lewis, particularly "Mere Christianity." I read some excerpts that made me want to read the whole thing. I know he held some beliefs that weren't perfect(if the rumors of mysogeny in his earlier life are to be believed)...but then who ever gets everything right? It doesn't change that he was a great thinker, and had some amazing insight into the Bible and the Christian life. It's hard to find a Christian work that doesn't reference CS Lewis quotes. Amazing how God uses such imperfect people to do such great things -- all of us.

Yes, I'm longwinded. *sigh* I suppose I should stop now. Later, guys.

Oh, goodness. What is the "Purpose-Driven Life" not about? It's so packed full of awesome information and insights that I sometimes half-jokingly refer to it as "The Christian Manifesto."

Title taken, Francis Schaeffer already wrote it.

As you can tell, I have a hard time committing to just one book. I'm actually reading on all of those. I started going to the gym a few weeks ago, and that helps a lot. It's really easy to focus on a single book when I'm on the treadmill.

And that's where I read Christian Manifesto mostly.

I don't get it- how can you read on a treadmill? I used to read on the bus when I was in school but it was always a challenge. Wiggly words don't make much sense to me. LittleShepherd, I know exactly what you mean! I often find myself reading several books at once. Right now I'm in something of a reading slump, which I sadly find myself in more and more often. (I figure that my current main book is this website!) I have a hayday at good Christian bookstores, and have amassed my own little library over the years. Oh, the joy of spending a few hours searching and reading titles and random spots, and then to collect a heap of books you'd like to buy, maybe force yourself to edit it a little because of pricing, and then take that bundle of joy into the car to drive home and "cuddle" on the couch as you squirm with joy! To hold each new gift to yourself and sigh with pleasure! I haven't had the money to do that for awhile now and I'm afraid the same joy won't be there anymore. Now if I have a few extra dollars and find myself in the store I'll pick out something interesting, but there's no joy. This one time I was looking in the bargins and found an old beloved book was out of print by the publisher who made my former copy, (Deeper Experiences of Famous Christians by James G. Lawson.) That was an awesome day, but after rereading it it didn't have the same deep impression on me that it had years before. I think I grew spiritually and that's why. I also got a lot more familiar with the topic.

Little Shepherd wrote wrote:I got Paul's biography first because what I know of his life makes him...well, kind of my personal role model. I want to be the kind of person who pushes forward no matter what, and who is never afraid to speak the truth, even when the people hearing it don't like what they hear. With the proper amount of tact, of course, but not so much that it goes beyond tact and becomes cowardice.

It makes me so happy to hear another Christian say those things! Those people are hard to find. He's been sort of been a role model for me too. I read some biography on him titled the same as probably so many others are, Paul. I really liked the historical details and how it put his travels and the events in them together but I didn't like what whoever the author was did to Paul himself. I was so mad about it that I empathetically threw the book into the garbage, (I've done that with other books as well, sometimes to my later regret!)

They didn't understand what Miles J. Stanford primarily teaches, (and what Paul so often mentioned,) and because of their ignorance on that, and Paul's character depending on that, they made Paul into something he absolutely was not. They also hacked up the Holy Spirit using groans that words cannot express to help Paul pray. God graciously, (He's so Good!) allowed me to experience for myself what that is like, and boy was this author off-base! He had Timothy wake up and hear Paul make strange groaning noises. No! How it works is that the Holy Spirit puts some kind of yearning or "groan" in you that causes you to pray the exact words the Holy Spirit chooses. I can describe my experience about that, (except a good desciption of the groans!) in another thread or something if anyone would like. Anyway, bad biography on Paul's character, but good otherwise.

About C.S. Lewis, an author I highly respect, (Miles J. Stanford,) has written of him on his website and it disturbed me. http://withchrist.org/MJS/index.htm Go under "Polemic/Persons" and look up "Lewis." The link on this page under "See Also" on the bottom goes to a long article on Lewis that I've only read a small part of, but much moreso disturbed me. I've read his autobiography, which wasn't a real autobiography but an account of how he came to believe in Christianity, Surprised By Joy,) and he never said anything about the substitutionary work of Christ, which is obviously how you get saved! Please anyone tell me what you know about all that- I've only read the autobiography and the Narnia collection.

About Francis Schaeffer, I've read a biography on him and half or so of his wife Edith's, Christianity is Jewish, (awesome book!) but I haven't yet decided whether to pick up one of his. Any recommendations? And what do you know of their retreat/commune, L'abri? I live only about two hours (?) from a location and used to think about trying it out.

Oh, goodness. Reading on a treadmill isn't difficult at all. The gym I go to has those things that will hold your book open and steady for you while you move around. You basically just have to keep your eyes focuses, and voila. The incentive to keep entertained(the treadmill is quite boring when you have nothing to distract you) also helps. If I have to hold the book in my hands, though, I also have trouble.

As for having trouble reading in general, I went through a period that lasted over 5 years when reading was very difficult, psychologically, for me. I had trouble focusing, getting motivated, etc. It extended into my whole life, not just reading -- but the reading was the part that I missed the most. It was the "Left Behind" series that finally got me to read again, just a couple months before my own "true conversion" to Christ last July. It was both joyous, and a little embarrassing -- I mean, I'd been calling myself a Christian for over a decade, and to have to admit that I had been a fraud to people when asked...

But yeah, my passion for Christ and learning more about Him and His Word just seemed to take off after that, and a huge part in learning is reading. Of course, my rediscovered passion for reading also extends into nonfiction works -- I just finished Ted Dekker's "The Circle" trilogy a couple weeks ago. At least in that aspect of my life, I seem to be almost entirely cured.

As for what CS Lewis believed -- I can't say I'm surprised. It doesn't worry me, though. At least not as far as my spiritual life and Christian beliefs are concerned -- I know better than to take anything CS Lewis(or anyone else) says as gospel, and to evaluate all new information in light of the Bible itself. "Bring every thought into submission of Christ," and all that, y'know.

Also, that Miles J. Stanford website you linked to -- he's another person I'd suggest caution. The page you linked to claimed that "Only from the Pauline epistles will the Holy Spirit minister these Christian truths to him." As I recall, however, these truths were pretty apparent in other sections of the New Testament as well -- most notably in the Gospels. Any statement that limits the Holy Spirit like that causes me to be wary.

That's why I need a book-the treadmill is the least favorite thing in the gym...and what I need to burn fat and all that wonderful stuff. And, even on the bus it wasn't hard to read...I hated it when it was dark most of the ride back in the day...but with enough light, I read like crazy.

As for having trouble reading in general, I went through a period that lasted over 5 years when reading was very difficult, psychologically, for me. I had trouble focusing, getting motivated, etc.

Same thing here...don't know what book got me interested again....now all I need is to buy books...

And, as much as I read, reading Schaeffer takes concentration...Christian Manifesto was point blank...but what I'm reading now, which is "There is a God" I think, is somewhat more difficult...though I get it still...just gotta think.