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Blasphemy and Predestination
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:43 am
by Believer
I have a problem everyone, please read this article recently published on the G&S.org website:
Who is the Holy Spirit and Why is He Important to Christians
by Rich Deem
Introduction:
Why is the Holy Spirit important in the life of Christians? In some of my interactions with Christians, it seems that they see the Holy Spirit as something that happened in the early days of the Church, who has now left the scene. However, the book of Acts makes it clear that the Holy Spirit, first given to the disciples,1 was poured out to thousands of early Jewish believers2 and eventually the Gentiles, also.3 How important is the Holy Spirit? Blasphemy against any other member of the Trinity (e.g., the Father or the Son) can be forgiven, although blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.4 The Holy Spirit empowers1, 5 the believer to perform acts of faith greater than their own physical capabilities.6 Feeling powerless these days? Tap into the Christian's power source and live the Christian life to its fullest.
Be Filled!:
Although all believers possess the Holy Spirit, who lives in them,7 not all believers allow the indwelling Spirit to affect their lives. We are commanded to "be filled with the Holy Spirit."8 How are we filled with the Spirit? Most important is living within God's moral directives.9 Paul gives the specific example of not being drunk with alcohol.8 However, any Christian living in sin of any kind will not experience the joy of the Holy Spirit, but will become enslaved to sin.10 An equally important aspect of being filled with the Spirit is being involved in spiritual endeavors. Paul gives examples of reciting Psalms, singing hymns and spiritual songs, giving thanks to God for all things, and being subject to one another.11 Part of being filled certainly involves setting our minds on heavenly things,12 so that we may be transformed and renewed to the will of God.13
Benefits of obedience:
Being filled with the Holy Spirit produces a sense of peace and joy in the believer.14 The fruit (i.e., harvest) of the Spirit is described as being joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.15 Spirit-filled Christians are just different.
Consequence of disobedience:
Since the Holy Spirit is so important, we are told to not grieve or quench the Holy Spirit:
- Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)
- Do not quench the Spirit; (1 Thessalonians 5:19)
When we deliberately sin, we are not walking with the Spirit.16 When we do sin, our conscience testifies that we are not in the Spirit, so we lose the peace of walking with the Spirit.17 A good example of losing a sense of the Holy Spirit's peace comes from David's 51st Psalm. When David sinned by committing adultery with Bathsheba, he sensed this loss and pleaded with God to help him and to not take the Holy Spirit away from him.18 Confession (agreeing with God that we were wrong) and repentance (turning from our sin) will put us back into fellowship with the Holy Spirit.
Conclusion:
The Holy Spirit lives inside the Christian and guides the actions of those who desire His presence. The Spirit empowers the believer to step outside his comfort zone to do extraordinary acts of faith for God. Being filled with the Spirit involves transforming our minds to the mind of Christ19 as we engage in spiritual activities. Walking in the Spirit leads to a sense of peace and joy, as we partner with God in His glorious plans. Violating our conscience through acts of disobedience lead to a loss of filling by the Holy Spirit, which takes away our joy and peace. Although God will not take the Holy Spirit away from a disciple of Jesus Christ, the continual practice of sin and a lack of spiritual activities will lead to a life that is no different than the life of a non-believer.
Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. (Romans 15:13)
Okay, now what gets me is the following quote:
Blasphemy against any other member of the Trinity (e.g., the Father or the Son) can be forgiven, although blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
Last year, for about 2 weeks, I was consistently blaspheming the holy spirit in my mind and one time said it outloud to make it all stop after I read this article
http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/unpardonablesin.html. It didn't stop, that is until I surrendered to God. I still have these bad thoughts against the Trinity, I don't know why, maybe because I have Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, I always have had it. I can't get these thoughts out of my head, and when I read the conclusion of the article "Forgiveness of Sin for All People?" which is the following:
God does predestine redemptive history so that His will is accomplished. He uses both the righteous and unrighteous to sanctify His children. Although God's desire is for all to be saved, most choose to reject God's love and to live solely for themselves. However, God brings His offer of salvation to all people and calls us, His followers, to proclaim this offer to all, so that they may experience God's love and peace for themselves. May we be faithful to our calling to love others as we have been loved.
It seems to me that God might be putting these thoughts in my head so I am fulfilling his will, to become an unbeliever and not be saved. I mean, last year, God spoke to me and said "You are forgiven" after I was in a crisis for 2 weeks of these evil thoughts. Then just 2 months ago, he spoke to me again and said "You're not saved". God wouldn't contradict himself, would he? Maybe it was my mind because I was thinking just those words in my head all day before I heared it audibly. Is my mind messing with me? Why has it been so hard to stay a Christian? Has God predestined me to hell?
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:38 am
by bizzt
One Scripture for your questions
Mar 3:25
And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
When you get these attacks from the Devil. Sit back take a Deep breath. Think "Is this consistent with what God told me he is"!! After you do that there are Scriptures you can quote back to the Devil!! RESIST HIM and he will Flee! Jesus went through some major attacks from the Devil!! What did he do he fought these attacks with Scripture.
God does not pre-destine anyone to hell but gives everyone their equal chance for Life.
Here is a great Scripture to read
Isa 38:5 Go, and say to Hezekiah, Thus saith the LORD, the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will add unto thy days fifteen years.
Memorize these Scriptures about Salvation and trust them for they will get you through your moments of weakness
Psa 18:2 The LORD [is] my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, [and] my high tower.
Psa 18:35 Thou hast also given me the shield of thy salvation: and thy right hand hath holden me up, and thy gentleness hath made me great.
Psa 25:5 Lead me in thy truth, and teach me: for thou [art] the God of my salvation; on thee do I wait all the day.
Psa 27:1 [[[A Psalm] of David.]] The LORD [is] my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the LORD [is] the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?
Psa 116:13 I will take the cup of salvation, and call upon the name of the LORD.
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Act 13:26 Men [and] brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:51 pm
by Believer
Yeah, but that didn't answer my questions, at least I don't think it did
.
1.) Am I still saved regardless of my blasphemy against the Holy Spirit if I asked for God's forgiveness?
2.) Could this have been just a psycological thing, the voices I heared were produced by my brain after thinking those exact words and waking up to hearing them hours later?
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:00 pm
by bizzt
HelpMeGod wrote:Yeah, but that didn't answer my questions, at least I don't think it did
.
1.) Am I still saved regardless of my blasphemy against the Holy Spirit if I asked for God's forgiveness?
2.) Could this have been just a psycological thing, the voices I heared were produced by my brain after thinking those exact words and waking up to hearing them hours later?
Yes... You can still be saved... (Did you do it after you knew Christ or before?)
What is Blaspheming the Holy Spirit Brian? Or what do you think it is?
I believe those thoughts could have been a bunch of different things but anything that has not been reproved by the word of God is not from God. Like I said above. "Is it consistent with what you know God to be?"
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:18 pm
by Believer
bizzt wrote:HelpMeGod wrote:Yeah, but that didn't answer my questions, at least I don't think it did
.
1.) Am I still saved regardless of my blasphemy against the Holy Spirit if I asked for God's forgiveness?
2.) Could this have been just a psycological thing, the voices I heared were produced by my brain after thinking those exact words and waking up to hearing them hours later?
Yes... You can still be saved... (Did you do it after you knew Christ or before?)
What is Blaspheming the Holy Spirit Brian? Or what do you think it is?
I believe those thoughts could have been a bunch of different things but anything that has not been reproved by the word of God is not from God. Like I said above. "Is it consistent with what you know God to be?"
I did it after I knew Christ or when my ultimate conversion to a Christian took place in March 2004 which God did, not I. I just read that article and because I have Obesseive Compulsive Disorder, I started thinking things against the Trinity, all 3 of them. I think I thought that all the good works were from the devil but I didn't TRUELY mean it, like I said, O.C.D. and also a little bit of testing to see what would happen, but didn't really mean it. I still have these thoughts to this day. Nothing is making it go away. When I had my crisis, everytime I thought something bad, my head would hurt.
I'm not really certain what TRUE blasphemy is, does it have to be true and persistant thoughout ones life?
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:34 pm
by Mastermind
I'm not really certain what TRUE blasphemy is, does it have to be true and persistant thoughout ones life?
That seems to be the dominating opinion around here.
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:06 pm
by Believer
Is it also rejecting God completely and leaving him out of the picture? I don't want to be screwed and go to hell, does anyone have anything that can show me I'm not screwed cause God wont confirm with me if I have REALLY been saved or not? What I heared last year was "You're forgiven" and now 2 months ago it was "You're not saved". That's a contradiction if I ever heared one!
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:41 pm
by voicingmaster
If I were you, I'd stop worrying about it. Whether you have committed the unforgivable sin or not, you can't change it now, so there's no point in worrying about it. Just live your life like you never done the blasphemie, as a child of God. Pretend it never happened. Just pray for forgiveness, and trust and have faith that God has granted you the forgiveness you asked for, then you will most likely get your salvation. Panicking solves nothing. BTW, I'm not trying to be an ass if I come off that way.
And why would you blaspheme just to see what would happen? What could possibly happen in the present? If anything were to happen, it would be something bad, why would you want something bad to happen to you?
God does predestine redemptive history so that His will is accomplished. He uses both the righteous and unrighteous to sanctify His children. Although God's desire is for all to be saved, most choose to reject God's love and to live solely for themselves. However, God brings His offer of salvation to all people and calls us, His followers, to proclaim this offer to all, so that they may experience God's love and peace for themselves. May we be faithful to our calling to love others as we have been loved.
It seems to me that God might be putting these thoughts in my head so I am fulfilling his will, to become an unbeliever and not be saved. I mean, last year, God spoke to me and said "You are forgiven" after I was in a crisis for 2 weeks of these evil thoughts. Then just 2 months ago, he spoke to me again and said "You're not saved". God wouldn't contradict himself, would he? Maybe it was my mind because I was thinking just those words in my head all day before I heared it audibly. Is my mind messing with me? Why has it been so hard to stay a Christian? Has God predestined me to hell?
According to your quote, God's will is for all to be saved, right? And you are part of all, so why would it be His will for you to go to hell?
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:26 pm
by Believer
voicingmaster wrote:If I were you, I'd stop worrying about it. Whether you have committed the unforgivable sin or not, you can't change it now, so there's no point in worrying about it. Just live your life like you never done the blasphemie, as a child of God. Pretend it never happened. Just pray for forgiveness, and trust and have faith that God has granted you the forgiveness you asked for, then you will most likely get your salvation. Panicking solves nothing. BTW, I'm not trying to be an ass if I come off that way.
And why would you blaspheme just to see what would happen? What could possibly happen in the present? If anything were to happen, it would be something bad, why would you want something bad to happen to you?
God does predestine redemptive history so that His will is accomplished. He uses both the righteous and unrighteous to sanctify His children. Although God's desire is for all to be saved, most choose to reject God's love and to live solely for themselves. However, God brings His offer of salvation to all people and calls us, His followers, to proclaim this offer to all, so that they may experience God's love and peace for themselves. May we be faithful to our calling to love others as we have been loved.
It seems to me that God might be putting these thoughts in my head so I am fulfilling his will, to become an unbeliever and not be saved. I mean, last year, God spoke to me and said "You are forgiven" after I was in a crisis for 2 weeks of these evil thoughts. Then just 2 months ago, he spoke to me again and said "You're not saved". God wouldn't contradict himself, would he? Maybe it was my mind because I was thinking just those words in my head all day before I heared it audibly. Is my mind messing with me? Why has it been so hard to stay a Christian? Has God predestined me to hell?
According to your quote, God's will is for all to be saved, right? And you are part of all, so why would it be His will for you to go to hell?
I didn't mean to blasphemy to see what would happen, it was just the result of my O.C.D. taking over control of my mind. Throughout my life, I have always obsessed over something, and in that case it was blashphemy, I didn't TRUELY mean it, I said it outloud to see if it would go away, it didn't until I surrendered to God. I just keep getting the inner feeling that I AM going to hell.
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:57 pm
by Poetic_Soul
This is for everyone that's open for discussion from my input. What is exactly blaspheming the HOLY SPIRIT? When I was 15 yrs. old I got saved and worried so much about this that it made me sick. Then finally it hit me. If you actually blasphemed the HOLY SPIRIT, you would definitly know.
How does a person get saved? He or she becomes drawn to Christ. What draws you to Christ? The HOLY SPIRIT. Now say a person gets saved and is filled with the HOLY SPIRIT then backslides. No problem. Just ask for forgiveness. Take that same person who gotten saved then blackslides and on top of that denys that Christ never saved him. As if Christ didn't go to the cross. That my friend is blaspheming the HOLY SPIRIT.
Why;...because the Holy Spirit shows and brings you the truth. And to deny that you never knew the truth, is a slap in the face to GOD (THE HOLY SPIRIT)
HelpMeGod;.....I do not believe that you blasphemed the Holy Spirit.
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:04 pm
by The edge
I think many of us has suffered at some point in our life about our Assurance of Salvation.
Here's 2 link. I've just finished listening to John's message on Assurance in the 2nd link & thot that it was great.
http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=1415
http://www.biblebb.com/mac-a-g.htm
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:37 pm
by Dan
Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven because it basically denies the provision for being saved.
It's basically saying, fill up the well with dirt and you will dehydrate and since you filled up the well you can't get water to hydrate yourself. It's the same principle, if you deny the power of the Holy Ghost to save you, it can't save you because you're denying it's power to save you. However if you accept it's sovereignity and it's salvation you will be saved.
Satan's Mental Attacks Regarding Salvation
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:26 am
by kateliz
I don't know anything about blaspheming the Holy Spirit and have also wondered what it's all about, but I really like what Dan wrote!
Brian, don't worry a thing about it! Not because your fate's already determined, (I fully believe in predestination... and so did the authors of the Bible!) but because I understand what you're going through. Listen, thoughts against God can pop into any Christian's head, but it doesn't mean they came from your heart and are a sin. As you said yourself, you didn't really mean it! How can it be a sin if your heart doesn't agree with it? It can't!!! Sin is rooted in a heart that's rebellious to God and His righteousness. That is not where your thoughts came from.
I personally believe that they are an attack from Satan just as bizzt does. I believe every Christian gets random thoughts against God, but Satan is the one who put them in there. Rebuke him and these things he harrasses you with! What helps me when I get thoughts like those is I ask myself, "where did that come from?!" Through that question I acknowledge that they did not come from me but as an attack. Satan loves it when we get all worked up thinking it was from ourselves!
Also ignore the word you got saying you aren't saved. That was an attack as well. It reminded me of a dream I had a long time ago where I was lying in bed sick and my friend came to see me as if I was dying. I spoke with her, and after a little bit I started to sink into the mattress. I tell you, it was one of the strangest sensation I've probably ever had! It felt very real and had a powerful impact on me. As I was sinking I felt like Satan was smiling and laughing at me and that I was on my way to hell. I sank all the way through the mattress and ended up back on it in the garage that was just below my bedroom. A lot of time must have passed before I found myself in the garage because all of my bedroom stuff was crowded around me in the garage as if in storage. I was left with the impression that I had already died. Then I blinked and found myself back up in my bedroom with my friend. I blinked again and I was sinking back through the mattress towards hell, and ended up in the garage again.
I woke up startled and very worried. It was the only time I was truly concerned I wouldn't go to heaven, and it took at least a few days and one realization to shake. I had to keep reaffirming what I knew about salvation and my faith, and then after how ever long of that it occurred to me that the dream must have come from Lucifer! It wasn't God informing me of my destination, as I originally feared, but Satan trying to play with my head! That ended it for me- I was no longer worried by the dream.
I hope you will find the same kind of peace about your eternal destination by that same realization!