Evidence for God from Science

This is a question I get asked often. If God is so loving why did He create a hell to eternally punish people? Why didn't He just put the fruit from the tree of knowledge good/evil up a little higher so sin would have never entered into the world? Why didn't He prevent all this from happening so no one would end up in hell? Almost 3 separate questions here but I think you get the gist.

PremoMD wrote:This is a question I get asked often. If God is so loving why did He create a hell to eternally punish people? Why didn't He just put the fruit from the tree of knowledge good/evil up a little higher so sin would have never entered into the world? Why didn't He prevent all this from happening so no one would end up in hell? Almost 3 separate questions here but I think you get the gist.

Love or obedience wouldn't be genuine if one cannot actually love or disobey.
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PremoMD,

You seem to have quite a few questions. I find it hard to believe you wouldn't have attempted to research answers yourself if these questions really troubled you. So I'm wondering what your own developed reply might be?

Kurieuo.

Kurieuo,

I don't do too much research on my own. I have a temporary pretty full time job working for IBM in the US (New York State). I'm only 20 so I'll be returning to college after my co-op has finished in December. In my spare time, I study scripture but like to devote most of my efforts towards the gospel. Find a fishing spot and go out fishing for men/women. I see that as a lot more important than discovering the divine mysteries of the written word - Charles Spurgeon has a good quote regarding that. Nevertheless, I fail to carry the full weight of the cross that the Lord has given me and get caught up with peripherals. Still growing on the journey - the Lord is faithful.

Here is what I've come up with thus far (emphasis on the I've). He are a few thoughts:

1) To shew forth the entirety of His divine character - holiness, justice, love, kindness, and a hatred for sin.
2) The Lord cannot commune with anything that is not perfect or holy. Need a way to dispose of unclean, sin-filled things.
3) Rather unfortunate that men and women were created with eternal souls --> there's purpose in this that I may not understand - why were we given eternal souls? There's no way of "sticking this out 'til the end", it doesn't let up in Hell.
4) The Lord has a plan/purpose in all of this. I just don't understand why He allowed sin to enter into the world but there's a very good reason.
5) Perhaps it was Satan's fault since He rebelled against God and was used in the temptation of Eve. But then we just get back to why did God allow Satan to rebel? Isaiah 14:4-23 (maybe I'm misinterpreting that... King of Babylon != Satan?)
6) Not important - what is important is that you have sin residing within you and must be cleansed by the blood of Jesus. Use your God-given fear of the Lord and repent. Don't worry about trying to discern the mind of the Lord.

I think that's enough thoughts for now. Sorry, as you can see not a lot is backed up by scripture. That's why I asked originally. What's the biblical answer?

In your reply, you have touched on some great points. I tend to think however that you have probably started by jumping in too deep without defining certain ideas within the question itself. For example, what is "Hell"? Is it like what is often portrayed in cartoons as fire and flames and a red daemon with horns and a pitchfork? You need to get a working definition of hell, before approaching the question of why an all-loving (also what does all-loving entail?) God would place people within such a place. Sometimes the answers are made obvious when one defines the details within a question, and I believe the question similar to your own, "why would an all-loving God send people to hell," is one such case.

I really respect Craig's opinion on this issue who professionally debated another philosopher on the topic of "Can a Loving God Send People to Hell?" I would highly recommend reading over his own reasoning, if not the entire debate, as it will at least help you to gather your own thoughts together on this topic. I'll quote the start of his opening words to try whet your appetite for more.

"If God really is all loving, then how can He send anybody to hell?" The question is almost an embarrassment for Christians today. On the one hand, the Bible teaches that God is love, and yet, on the other hand, it warns that those who reject God face everlasting punishment, and it contains frequent warnings about the danger of going to hell. But aren't these two somehow inconsistent with each other? Well, a lot of people seem to think that they are inconsistent, but in fact this isn't at all obvious. After all, there is no explicit contradiction between them. The statement "God is all loving" and "Some people go to hell" are not explicitly contradictory. So if these two are inconsistent, there must be some hidden assumptions which would serve to bring out the contradiction and make it explicit.

...

(Read the rest at http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcrai ... dley1.html)

Kurieuo.

A loving God can send people to hell, simply because to even begin in hell, you must first established yourself with demons and your actions controlled by darkness. In other words, You are God's enemy when you associate yourself with darkness, wickedness and evil. In effect, it is really Satan who sends you to hell if you think of it deeply. God is kind, God gave you the opportunity to live eternal life from the start, God gave you the chance to enjoy a fuller life with the opportunity to be blessed into heaven. It is those who refuse to accept the blessing from the start, often confused and manipulated by the environment; where Satan targets the environment with deceptions to separate you from God. The rule is always there, it is you who refuse to learn the rules, or sadly because your temptation drives you into the deceptions set by darkness; which in turn separate the distance between you and God. If you follow the Bible from the start, you are on the right track. Thankfully, God gave us his only son Jesus Christ to forgive our sins and live a fuller life. God is the most powerful, and it is illustrated through Christ. Christ rise from the dead, conquering death and darkness with superior mightiness and glory. Being hyper-critical will only lead you to regrets.

Even for those that are born to suffer and destined to be in hell, those are the consequences due by their parents, grand-parents and even ancestor.

God is fair, and because of his fairness, he is mighty. Think of the consequence of your actions and help those you love, separate yourself from sins through Christ.

God is loving by giving you a second chance, that is through his son Jesus Christ. If you refuse to establish with Jesus Christ truly and fully, then it is your own fault and the consequences will be due. The consequences are predetermined by rules, laws that was set before our knowledge.


Think deeply.

May God encourage you to seek for true meaning of life.

As you seek for true meaning of life, God will be the answer.

Why did God create us with sin in the world?

This is a perpetual question for theologians and laity alike. When we look at the world and recognize that a holy and infinitely perfect God has created us, we can appreciate His majesty and wonder. But, it is impossible for us to ignore the fact that this world is far from perfect. There is sin in it. Why, then, if God is infinitely perfect and powerful, did He create a world and allow the fall to occur to contaminate it?
The Bible doesn't give us specific answer to this question, but I would like to offer this possible answer as food for thought.

God did not lack anything in Himself that prompted His creative act. He wasn't lonely or bored. To say such a thing about Him would be to imply He is not eternally self-sufficient and perfect. But, if God is perfect and doesn't need anything, why would He then create us -- and the universe for us to live in -- that has fallen into sin? What purpose would it serve?
I suspect the answer lies within God's nature and a few clues spread throughout God's word. To begin with, God is love (1 John 4:16) and the nature of love is to give. John 3:16 says "For God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son..." I cannot help but believe that the most natural quality of love is to give, to be other centered, and, according to Jesus' own words, to give of one's self to the point of death. John 15:13 is where Jesus said, "Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends."
According to Jesus, there is no greater demonstration of love than self sacrifice to the point of death. Since God is love (1 John 4:16) and there is none greater than He, I conclude that God can and will be the one who demonstrates the greatest act of love. I cannot see God allowing a mere creation to demonstrate this in a better way than He. It would be a necessary outcome of His own nature and a necessary manifestation in any universe He created that the two greatest commandments spoken of by Jesus to love God and love your neighbor (xxx) would be supremely demonstrated by none other than God Himself. Jesus was God in flesh who loved the Father perfectly and He loved us completely by laying down His life for us. This is the greatest and most perfect act of love according to Jesus.
If this is true, then it might just be that God had to create the universe so that the fall would be included in His plan for the very purpose of demonstrating and manifesting His perfect character: Love! To demonstrate the very greatest part of His nature of love, He would have to die for someone else. This could not be done if there was no one to die for and no reason to die for them. There could be no reason to die if there were no need for an atonement. There would be no need for an atonement if there were no sin. If there was no fall, there would be no sin.
Therefore, perhaps it is possible that God created the universe with "free will" creatures in it who would fall into sin. Without this fall, ultimately no death would be necessary to atone for them and without that death, the greatest act of love could not be demonstrated. Also, this would mean that the truest and most perfect quality of love would not be fulfilled. Would this then mean that God would not be perfectly fulfilled without having given of Himself? I don't know. But I can't help wondering that for God to truly express His perfectly loving nature, He Himself had to be one who laid His life down for others. For this to happen, He allowed sin to exist in this world.
Furthermore, I suspect that it was Jesus Himself in the garden who walked with Adam and Eve. I base this upon Jesus' own words in John 6:46 where He states that no one has ever seen the Father. Yet, we know that God appeared in the Old Testament (Gen. 17:1; 18:1; Exodus 6:2-3; 24:9-11; Num. 12:6-8; Acts 7:2; etc.). If it was God who was seen and it wasn't the Father, then it must have been Jesus. Why do I bring this up? Because after Adam and Eve sinned, God Himself (Jesus?) shed the blood of an animal in order to cover them with animal skins. This shedding of blood was instituted by God as a prophetic typology of the true and final sacrifice that God (Jesus) would carry out so many thousands of years later when He laid His life down as the perfect demonstration of His loving character. The redemption of mankind was always in the mind of God and was planned and carried out by God as a manifestation of the eternal love He has for His people. This love was made complete in the death of Christ. Also, I suspect that this is what is hinted at in Heb. 13:20 with the reference to the "blood of the eternal covenant" that some theologians think is reference to God's eternal plan of salvation made within the Trinity before the universe was made. This covenant was the inter-Trinitarian arrangement to redeem mankind through the sacrifice of Christ.
Therefore, I conclude that God may very well have made a universe in which sin existed so that He Himself could show the greatest and most perfect act of love by laying down His life for His friends.

I agree with this Anonymous guy; look, i am not saying anything here to take sides, but has anyone ever wonder if a GOD loves us, and knows the future, why He would allow such a small amount into Heaven, while the go to Hell. Does the good outweigh the bad, or should GOD never even create all of us and this in the first place?

If you want a really long answer, go to Why did God go ahead?

If you want a short answer on why a loving God must send people to Hell, see Preaching Hell.

Instead of questioning why a loving God would create hell, we should be thankful that we are alive at all. Remember this, without His will, we would cease to exist, have nothing, no love, no hate, no pleasure, no pain..... nothing.

We owe our existence to his kindness to put up with our crap. Even with our sinfulness, He still finds a way to give us life. Hell, or Hades, or whatever, it's a way to cast judgement. We all make our own choices, and if we chose the wrong path, is that God's fault? No, that's life! You end up with what you deserve.

Some Christians do not believe in everlasting torment in a fiery 'hell'. I don't. The Catholic Church has been backing away from this idea recently also.

If God is real and the bible is his word then his word is eternal. Everything that is written in his word has eternal meaning. Unfortunately the bible clearly states that hell was created for the devil and his angels, and that people who do not choose to recieve God's free gift of becoming his children/redemption, will share in the fate of satan. Its not my opinion that matters but what God says inhis word. God must have deemed it worth while beyond what we can understand. I never said I liked it, and I wish it wasn't so...but who am I?Perhaps the mere thought of wishing it wasnlt so is an infraction of sorts...contemplating that I may know better. If your interested, C.S. lewis has quite a few good reads out there...my first pick would be "Mere Christianity" and also "the Great Divorce". Well, put it this way....if your a christian then this earth is the only hell you will ever know, if your not, then this earth is the only heaven you will ever know.

Fortigurn wrote:Some Christians do not believe in everlasting torment in a fiery 'hell'. I don't. The Catholic Church has been backing away from this idea recently also.

Fortigurn, you continue to surprise. Are you now leaning towards catholicism? (Oh no, I had to go there . Just messin' with ya man).

Well for one God did not create hell. Hell was a word that was made up from the Vatican to insight fear to bolster its flocks of sheep. Hell actually came from the name 'Hel' who was the daughter of Loki in Norse mythology. Loki being the lord of the underworld. So put the two together and add an 'l' and voila it solves some supremecy and political issues the church had at the time to help elevate the need for killing innocent people and walk away with clean hands. All in the name of righteousness!

Here is the link to find more on 'Hel' <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hel_(being)" target="new">Hel on wikipedia</a>

Sadasius wrote:Well for one God did not create hell. Hell was a word that was made up from the Vatican to insight fear to bolster its flocks of sheep. Hell actually came from the name 'Hel' who was the daughter of Loki in Norse mythology. Loki being the lord of the underworld. So put the two together and add an 'l' and voila it solves some supremecy and political issues the church had at the time to help elevate the need for killing innocent people and walk away with clean hands. All in the name of righteousness!

Here is the link to find more on 'Hel' <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hel_(being)" target="new">Hel on wikipedia</a>

Wikipedia: The New Religion.

Sadasius,

I don't know if you had the opportunity to read the board purpose but basically this board is privately owned and administered, and as such, it is not open for everyone. The purpose of this board is for Christians and sincere seekers who have not made up their mind against God and Christianity. I could be wrong but you strike me as neither. In light of that, I urge you to reconsider your presence here and determine if this board is for you.

Byblos
Moderator.