Evidence for God from Science

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

In my Bible class the subject of "Is Jesus the only way?" comes up often. Most of the members of the class say that it is the only way for Christians, but there are other ways that lead to salvation besides Jesus Christ. Two of us disagree and I am one of them.

I will go so far to say that it is up to God who is saved and who isn't in regard to those other than Christians, but I would think it would be very hard to accomplish this to God's satisfaction. If we believe that Jesus was the Word of God incarnate, then what other conclusion can we come to?

I think that Jesus has left little doubt in the Scriptures that He is the only way to salvation for everyone. I can't come to any other conclusion. It seems to me that if there are other ways to obtain salvation then there would have been no need for Jesus to die on the cross and He could have saved Himself.

I am finding so many views on Christianity that I think are watered-down and wishy-washy. Perhaps it is my upbringing, but perhaps it is the church. It is Methodist and I'm relatively new there.

Am I wrong? I would appreciate other opinions.

Thank you.

I agree with you. Christians, (nominal or real) who believe that Jesus isn't the only way only do so because they want non-Christians to be saved. They can't or won't accept that if Christ is flat-out refused, despite whatever "good deeds" they do or "morals" they have they still won't get to heaven. It is unbiblical wishful thinking.

God can justify people who haven't heard of the historical Christ, however. I heard a story once, (the basis for my agreeing with this concept,) of a missionary who went to a remote village where Jesus had never been taught, and after learning the language told them about a man who died to pay for their sins. The religious leader of the village said, "Oh! We know about him! I had a vision once where I saw a man who had died for our sins." They even had their own name for Him, something like "The Sin Taker". The missionary was stunned, and then explained how the black book he brought tells the story of that man, and the religious leader was very excited to be able to finally know more about the man in his vision. I don't remember if they knew The Sin Taker was God or not, but the story illustrates the possibility of this.

hmm, that's cool. still, doesn't the bible say something to the effect of those who haven't heard being "judged after there own hearts." did i make this up...please help me find it!

Prodigal Son:
Romans 2

The argument then becomes one of when will God assume you had the opportunity to make a conscious decision for or against His salvation through Christ?

The law of God is written in the hearts of men, all of us know about Jesus Christ, consciously or not, the fruits of our actions show this. A virtuous man who has never met a christian or has never heard of Christ still knows Him in his heart.

I agree with you. Christians, (nominal or real) who believe that Jesus isn't the only way only do so because they want non-Christians to be saved. They can't or won't accept that if Christ is flat-out refused, despite whatever "good deeds" they do or "morals" they have they still won't get to heaven. It is unbiblical wishful thinking.

I agree. We all want our friends and relatives saved and to eventually end up in heaven with us. Some people think that they are "good enough." I hear this all the time. One friend said that he "follows" Jesus but he does not believe that Jesus was the divine Son of God, the Messiah or that Jesus died for our sins. But he is a good person and follows Jesus. How can someone "follow" Jesus and reject Him as the Son of God or the Messiah? Can they get away with saying that they disagree with how Trinitarian Christians interpret the Scriptures? Who is right?

Your story of "The Sin Taker" reminds me of the story about the "unknown God" and Paul. Paul declares that he will make him known. I do think that Jesus is still working on people and that He uses visions.

Thanks.

doesn't the bible say something to the effect of those who haven't heard being "judged after there own hearts."

I don't know if you made it up or not, but it does make sense. How can you reject salvation through Jesus if you have never heard of Him? This is the loop hole and I think this is the only place where it is up to God to decide.

Thanks.

The argument then becomes one of when will God assume you had the opportunity to make a conscious decision for or against His salvation through Christ?

My position is that once we do hear the Gospel and understand who Jesus is, that is the time when we have to make a choice--either you accept it or you reject it. If you reject it, it is at your own peril.

But, as I said to kateliz, what about misinterpreting the Scriptures? We can get away with a little of that, but using the Scriptures I think that it is very clear that He is our savior, the Messiah, that He died for our sins and rose from the dead. When I read the claims that Jesus made that are claims that only God could make, how can we come to any other conclusion that Jesus was divine--God Himself in the flesh. If Jesus was God in the flesh, then we must listen to Him. When Jesus said: "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no one comes to the Father except through Me," then that is the ONLY way. Jesus did not preach that there was any other way.

Thanks.

Another point is that Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would bring us to the truth. How can He bring one "truth" to me and another "truth" to another? Isn't there only one truth?

Thanks.

kateliz wrote:I agree with you. Christians, (nominal or real) who believe that Jesus isn't the only way only do so because they want non-Christians to be saved. They can't or won't accept that if Christ is flat-out refused, despite whatever "good deeds" they do or "morals" they have they still won't get to heaven. It is unbiblical wishful thinking.

God can justify people who haven't heard of the historical Christ, however. I heard a story once, (the basis for my agreeing with this concept,) of a missionary who went to a remote village where Jesus had never been taught, and after learning the language told them about a man who died to pay for their sins. The religious leader of the village said, "Oh! We know about him! I had a vision once where I saw a man who had died for our sins." They even had their own name for Him, something like "The Sin Taker". The missionary was stunned, and then explained how the black book he brought tells the story of that man, and the religious leader was very excited to be able to finally know more about the man in his vision. I don't remember if they knew The Sin Taker was God or not, but the story illustrates the possibility of this.

wow

Romans 2:14-16 When you read that, though, remember that not only good deeds are included in it, but the very depths of their hearts as well, and if you take it far enough, it excludes plenty of people who you'd otherwise think would qualify for the statement. Besides, it's probably near impossible to tell if someone's "good deeds" and "morals" aren't backed by pride, selfishness, self-love and desire for attention. This type of person may very well not even realize that these things are in their hearts even in the least! They may have the appearance of humility towards themselves, and so be utterly blind to what they truly are! And this also comes into play: Acts 4:12 So then, if you cling to another name, say of Buddah or Allah or whomever, then you are excluded as well. If you are the kind of person described in Romans 2:14-16, then it'd be in your heart not to follow any religious leader other than the one you have not heard of but know of in your heart- Christ Jesus. That would be part of the inner knowledge that qualifies you for salvation. And also remember, according to God's Word these people couldn't be saved because they earned it in any way, no one is saved by their own works or by their own "pure" hearts. These people would be saved because God put a knowledge of Him into their hearts that would cause them to look to Him unknowingly for such a thing, if they even would think of it at all! Somewhere in the Old Testament it says that our righteousness is as filthy rags in the eyes of God. The only true righteousness that exists is God's own righteousness, which He imparts to those whom He chooses, and that choice being in agreement with all that God has revealed about salvation.

Christian2 wrote:I think that Jesus has left little doubt in the Scriptures that He is the only way to salvation for everyone. I can't come to any other conclusion. It seems to me that if there are other ways to obtain salvation then there would have been no need for Jesus to die on the cross and He could have saved Himself.

I think Scripture is clear Christ will judge all, and so the authority to be with God ends with Him alone. Yet the issue then becomes could Christ as judge not apply His sacrifice onto anyone He chooses, and so declare them innocent?

For example, those in the OT are commonly assumed to be saved by the Jewish sacrificial system in place which foreshadowed Christ's own sacrifice. In this way, many Christians assume Jews at that time are saved in advance and that Christ's payment extends backward to them. Or take an example of those who haven't heard the Gospel of Christ. Paul tells us in Romans 1:19-20 that all are without excuse because what may be known about God has been made plain to us through what has been made. Therefore all of us are without excuse, yet all of us can realise our predicament and seek God, though this might notably be much harder to realise than having someone explain the Gospel message.

Does Christ being the only way mean 1) "all" no matter who they are, where they are form, what they've heard or opportunity they've been given, are going to be rejected out-of-hand if they didn't say the sinners prayer and specifically ask Christ into their lives? Or does it mean 2) Christ is sole arbitrator between us and God since He paid for our sins, and so it is entirely up to Christ to decide upon whom He extends such payment?

I'm inclined to go with two. While I think all who truly give themselves to Christ and so accept His payment are saved, I believe there are those who Christ will also extend His payment to, who would willingly submit to Christ, but weren't given the opportunity due to a lack of knowledge, opportunity, or other. Yet, Christ is the only way anyone ever obtains salvation, which is everlasting life with God.

Kurieuo.

Thanks Kurieuo,

While I think all who truly give themselves to Christ and so accept His payment are saved, I believe there are those who Christ will also extend His payment to, who would willingly submit to Christ, but weren't given the opportunity due to a lack of knowledge, opportunity, or other. Yet, Christ is the only way anyone ever obtains salvation, which is everlasting life with God.

So, here we are back to my original thought. Salvation must come through Jesus Christ no matter what. I can understand that those who never heard of Jesus Christ would fit into another category, but those who have heard of Jesus and read His gospel and have rejected it are lost, in my opinion.

I wonder about the Muslims. They say that they believe in Jesus—whatever that means, but they do not accept Him as their savior, but they believe that God is their savior. They don't believe that He died on the cross. But the Muslims do submit to God. And, of course, the Jews submit to God but don't believe in Jesus at all. Perhaps the question here is do we have to accept the Trinity in order to be saved? Do we have to accept that Jesus was divine? But, if Jesus is divine, then we better pay attention to His teachings because His teachings come from God. This leads to the question of interpretation of Scripture that I brought up. There are people who call themselves Christians who read the Scriptures and determine that that Jesus was not divine. Can they be faulted because they misinterpret the Scriptures or can we if we have misinterpreted the Scriptures?

What about the people who believe that Jesus was not divine and did not die for their sins? I know a Crossan fan who believes this.

In the final analysis, Jesus asked for faith and repentance, but He also asked us to believe in Him. He said He would die for salvation "of many."

If others are saved without accepting Jesus as divine and the Messiah, but try to follow His teachings, then this leads me back to my thought that Jesus didn't have to die.

You're right that Jesus didn't have to die. That's what makes it so special.

Like Mastermind said Jesus did not have to die. However If he did not die then our Sins would still have to be paid for by Death