Passages and homosexuality
Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 10:31 pm
The subject of homosexuality is an intense one in Christian circles. I have voiced an opinion that I do not think the Bible condemns gay sex in itself. I have also said that I believe the Bible is inerrant. So naturally there are Bible passages that need to be addressed.
I felt that if someone is accusing their neighbor of being sinful, the burden of proof is on them. But some said that nothing needed to be added to the passages and that they speak for themselves. So, the prosecution rests (at least for now). What's left is the counter-arguments...
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV)
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
It seems that this passage condemns both "male prostitutes" and "homosexual offenders", indicating that gay sex is a sin. There are a few things that need to be addressed about this...
The possiblility of mistranslation needs to be taken into account. These words are taken from a list of many words, which makes them extremely difficult to translate because there's no conection to them with events or situations. Of course, "male prostitutes" is quite blunt and obvious in the NIV version. But other versions have different meanings:
"effeminate" (KJV) (NASV) (YLT)
"perverts" (CEV)
In addition, the Catholic Church has believed up until the mid 50's that this word meant maturbation. So, which translation is the most accurate? The original Greek word is malakoi which means "soft, delicate", and can be used to describe moral weakness or male effeminacy.
The next term is "homosexual offenders". This hasn't had a broad flavor of translations:
"homosexuals" (NLT)
"sodomites" (YLT)
"those who participate in homosexuality" (AB)
"abusers of themselves with mankind" (KJV)
So what's the correct translation? The word used is arsenokoitai, which is a compound noun that Paul himself may have coined. It combines arsen , which means male or man, and koite, which means bed. This word has been used to describe a male/boy prostitute, who serviced both sexes in those days.
In some of Paul's lists, he addresses many issues by combining words together to make a single, repeditive point; look carefully at 1 Timothy 1:9-10, he mentions arsenokoitai:
9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the
lawless and disobedient,
for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane (irreligious NIV),
for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10For whoremongers, for (arsenokotai), for menstealers(slave traders NIV),
for liars, for perjured persons,
and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
So, Paul combines arenokotai with the the slave traders. These particular slave traders (andrapodostai) would buy or kidnap young girls and boys to sell to brothels for prostitution. What does this mean, it means that Paul is against sexual exploitation for finacial gain. In light of this, one looks at 1 Cor 6: 9-10 and realizes that Paul's (or anyone else's) point can sometimes get lost in literal translation. Paraphrasing is often the way to go, like Eugene H. Peterson's translation, The Message:
9Don't you realize that this is not the way to live? Unjust people who don't care about God will not be joining in his kingdom. Those who use and abuse each other, use and abuse sex, 10use and abuse the earth and everything in it, don't qualify as citizens in God's kingdom.
Conclusion: With 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, there is no visable connection to homosexuality by Church fathers (which includes the Latin Vulgate) until the 9th century, and even then it was in the context of prostitution. Prostitution is protested against by Paul many times, and in the case of these passages, men are not excused either.
Though there is no word for homosexual in Ancient Greek, there were many words that Paul could have used that he didn't in any of his writings. His beef is sexual exploitation, and he makes no mention of sex in the context of loving relationships. These two words are not a strong case for condeming all gay acts in any context.
I felt that if someone is accusing their neighbor of being sinful, the burden of proof is on them. But some said that nothing needed to be added to the passages and that they speak for themselves. So, the prosecution rests (at least for now). What's left is the counter-arguments...
Well, I've had a really long day, so I can't address all of them today. Here is a good start:Felgar wrote:So then Shirtless, simply read those passages and honestly answer whether homosexuality is agianst God's will or not. Clearly it is.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV)
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
It seems that this passage condemns both "male prostitutes" and "homosexual offenders", indicating that gay sex is a sin. There are a few things that need to be addressed about this...
The possiblility of mistranslation needs to be taken into account. These words are taken from a list of many words, which makes them extremely difficult to translate because there's no conection to them with events or situations. Of course, "male prostitutes" is quite blunt and obvious in the NIV version. But other versions have different meanings:
"effeminate" (KJV) (NASV) (YLT)
"perverts" (CEV)
In addition, the Catholic Church has believed up until the mid 50's that this word meant maturbation. So, which translation is the most accurate? The original Greek word is malakoi which means "soft, delicate", and can be used to describe moral weakness or male effeminacy.
The next term is "homosexual offenders". This hasn't had a broad flavor of translations:
"homosexuals" (NLT)
"sodomites" (YLT)
"those who participate in homosexuality" (AB)
"abusers of themselves with mankind" (KJV)
So what's the correct translation? The word used is arsenokoitai, which is a compound noun that Paul himself may have coined. It combines arsen , which means male or man, and koite, which means bed. This word has been used to describe a male/boy prostitute, who serviced both sexes in those days.
In some of Paul's lists, he addresses many issues by combining words together to make a single, repeditive point; look carefully at 1 Timothy 1:9-10, he mentions arsenokoitai:
9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the
lawless and disobedient,
for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane (irreligious NIV),
for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10For whoremongers, for (arsenokotai), for menstealers(slave traders NIV),
for liars, for perjured persons,
and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
So, Paul combines arenokotai with the the slave traders. These particular slave traders (andrapodostai) would buy or kidnap young girls and boys to sell to brothels for prostitution. What does this mean, it means that Paul is against sexual exploitation for finacial gain. In light of this, one looks at 1 Cor 6: 9-10 and realizes that Paul's (or anyone else's) point can sometimes get lost in literal translation. Paraphrasing is often the way to go, like Eugene H. Peterson's translation, The Message:
9Don't you realize that this is not the way to live? Unjust people who don't care about God will not be joining in his kingdom. Those who use and abuse each other, use and abuse sex, 10use and abuse the earth and everything in it, don't qualify as citizens in God's kingdom.
Conclusion: With 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, there is no visable connection to homosexuality by Church fathers (which includes the Latin Vulgate) until the 9th century, and even then it was in the context of prostitution. Prostitution is protested against by Paul many times, and in the case of these passages, men are not excused either.
Though there is no word for homosexual in Ancient Greek, there were many words that Paul could have used that he didn't in any of his writings. His beef is sexual exploitation, and he makes no mention of sex in the context of loving relationships. These two words are not a strong case for condeming all gay acts in any context.
, and they considered the female figure to be the standard of beauty, as opposed to all the Greek statues of men.