Evidence for God from Science

I'm lookign through e-sword but I'd like to see a second opinion as to the actual difference between the two is.

I asked my pastor about this one a while ago, and he said they weren't separate entities. I can't remember the details, but they might be different ways of looking at the same thing.

I define the soul as the higher intellect of humans and other smart "soulish" creatures. I define the spirit as the very essence of our being, the part of us that was created in the image of God, it is who we are and it is what separates us and the angels from all of God's other creations.

Animals with souls have the ability to form relationships with others including Humans. These type of relationships are driven by the "soul". Only Humans have the need to communicate and form a relationship with God. This awareness of God and the need to forge a relationship with Him is driven by "spirit". It is the difference between spirit and soul that made Adam a "living being" as opposed to just being another "living creature". See Genesis 2:7 and Genesis 1:20 to help differentiate the point.

MM wrote:I'm lookign through e-sword but I'd like to see a second opinion as to the actual difference between the two is.

"Soul" has two generally used meanings.

In Scripture, "soul" often refers (but I don't believe always does) to our body+spirit complex. By "spirit" here, I mean our essense which survives beyond physical death. Genesis 2:7 supports this: "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Here we see "body" + "breath of life" (i.e., spirit) = "living soul."

On the other hand "soul" has come to designate that non-physical part of us. That is, "soul" is understood to be our "spirit" as this term is defined in the previous paragraph. Some believe soul and spirit are interchangable and that there are no distinctions between the two, but I am not of this position. I view the "spirit" as our spiritual body which allows us to experience God and the spiritual world, just like how our "physical body" allows us to interact with our physical world. Our "soul" is our essense which feels our experiences—the what it is like to see colours, hear sounds, feel pains, feel God's presence, etc.

Kurieuo.

Kurieuo wrote:

MM wrote:I'm lookign through e-sword but I'd like to see a second opinion as to the actual difference between the two is.

"Soul" has two generally used meanings.

In Scripture, "soul" often refers (but I don't believe always does) to our body+spirit complex. By "spirit" here, I mean our essense which survives beyond physical death. Genesis 2:7 supports this: "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Here we see "body" + "breath of life" (i.e., spirit) = "living soul."

On the other hand "soul" has come to designate that non-physical part of us. That is, "soul" is understood to be our "spirit" as this term is defined in the previous paragraph. Some believe soul and spirit are interchangable and that there are no distinctions between the two, but I am not of this position. I view the "spirit" as our spiritual body which allows us to experience God and the spiritual world, just like how our "physical body" allows us to interact with our physical world. Our "soul" is our essense which feels our experiences—the what it is like to see colours, hear sounds, feel pains, feel God's presence, etc.

Kurieuo.

Can somebody be alive without a soul? I thought it was peculiar that God would say "man became a living soul", as if man was a dead soul before and then became a living one. Could the soul refer to sentience? Do animals have souls or spirits?

Man became a living soul because he hadn't existed before that point in time.

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:Man became a living soul because he hadn't existed before that point in time.

Or he lived but had no soul. Or had a soul but did not live.

Perhaps you should think of us as being souls that have a body and a spirit. I think the difference may lie in the word living, you are always a soul because that is how you were created, but you may not always be living.

Mastermind wrote:Can somebody be alive without a soul? I thought it was peculiar that God would say "man became a living soul", as if man was a dead soul before and then became a living one. Could the soul refer to sentience?

When you read Scripture you nearly always have to view "soul" as physical body+spirit (where spirit often Scripturally represents one's vitality and essense in the OT). In Ecclesiastes 12:7 we read, "and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it." This without a body, I believe our "spirit" returns to God who can sustain us.

Now I will begin talking from the position I've found the most consistency with and have come to believe. So when I refer to "soul" from here-on I mean our vitality and essense which Scripture often designates "spirit." And when I refer to spirit, I mean our spiritual body with which our perception of God was rendered dead as soon as Adam and Eve sinned. Having laid some foundations, I can hopefully answer your question in a more clear way to you.

Logically one can't be "alive" without a spiritual or physical body. For without a body our soul has no perception of anything since we have no body through which we can experience. Yet, as Ecclesiastes 12:7 says, our essence (what I refer to as "soul") returns to God. Thus, if our soul does not have a body, I believe we can be sustained in a disembodied state by God until He so desires to provide our soul with a body. In such a state it could be said we aren't alive, since we technically aren't living.

So when Genesis 2:7 mentions that man became a "living soul," I believe it is being stressed that man's soul was given a body whereby our soul (us) was able to express itself through. We can't live without our soul seeing as such is at our very essense. We can't live without a body, since our body is what gives our soul the ability to live. Yet our soul can be sustained without a body by God.

MM wrote:Do animals have souls or spirits?

Yes, I believe animals have souls since they do appear to feel pain, have dreams and so forth. However, the souls of animals are less complex than ours since they don't appear to have an expressed capacity to be moral, creative, self-reflect, and so forth. God could also endow an animal with a spiritual body, but I'm not certain about this since such would depend on whether an animal's soul was imparted to exist beyond physical death like ours, and secondly whether an animal's soul is compatible with a spiritual body. We know our souls are compatible with both physical and spiritual bodies since we obviously have physical bodies, and Scripture refers to us being born again spiritually (John 3:3-8).

Kurieuo.

OK thanks.

Kurieuo wrote:

Mastermind wrote:Can somebody be alive without a soul? I thought it was peculiar that God would say "man became a living soul", as if man was a dead soul before and then became a living one. Could the soul refer to sentience?

When you read Scripture you nearly always have to view "soul" as physical body+spirit (where spirit often Scripturally represents one's vitality and essense in the OT). In Ecclesiastes 12:7 we read, "and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it." This without a body, I believe our "spirit" returns to God who can sustain us.

Now I will begin talking from the position I've found the most consistency with and have come to believe. So when I refer to "soul" from here-on I mean our vitality and essense which Scripture often designates "spirit." And when I refer to spirit, I mean our spiritual body with which our perception of God was rendered dead as soon as Adam and Eve sinned. Having laid some foundations, I can hopefully answer your question in a more clear way to you.

Logically one can't be "alive" without a spiritual or physical body. For without a body our soul has no perception of anything since we have no body through which we can experience. Yet, as Ecclesiastes 12:7 says, our essence (what I refer to as "soul") returns to God. Thus, if our soul does not have a body, I believe we can be sustained in a disembodied state by God until He so desires to provide our soul with a body. In such a state it could be said we aren't alive, since we technically aren't living.

So when Genesis 2:7 mentions that man became a "living soul," I believe it is being stressed that man's soul was given a body whereby our soul (us) was able to express itself through. We can't live without our soul seeing as such is at our very essense. We can't live without a body, since our body is what gives our soul the ability to live. Yet our soul can be sustained without a body by God.

MM wrote:Do animals have souls or spirits?

Yes, I believe animals have souls since they do appear to feel pain, have dreams and so forth. However, the souls of animals are less complex than ours since they don't appear to have an expressed capacity to be moral, creative, self-reflect, and so forth. God could also endow an animal with a spiritual body, but I'm not certain about this since such would depend on whether an animal's soul was imparted to exist beyond physical death like ours, and secondly whether an animal's soul is compatible with a spiritual body. We know our souls are compatible with both physical and spiritual bodies since we obviously have physical bodies, and Scripture refers to us being born again spiritually (John 3:3-8).

Kurieuo.

That is precisely what I believe, only much more eloquently expressed.

1 Thessalonians 5:13 declares man is a tripartite being. We are a spirit, possess a soul, and are housed in a body.

The body, our physical self is obvious -nowadays it gets lots of attention.
The difference between soul and spirit are harder to distinguish, but I think Hebrews 4:12 gives us a clue.

Hebrews 4:12: "For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart" (NKJV).

There is a division between soul and spirit. That difference is like the the difference between joints and marrow, or thoughts and intents of the heart.

Soul is where your thoughts and reasoning occurs.
Spirit is the seat of motivation and direction -the deepest most part of you.

Motivation (spirit) is tempered by reason (soul) and produces action (body) which manipulates the physical world we live in. I find it interesting that Jesus Christ does not repair our spirit, but gives us a new one (Ezekiel 11:19). The intent is to save the soul which retains memories, reason, and knowledge (James 1:21, & Romans 12:2). The evidence of God's redemption is seen by changed behavior (James 2:26).

God lives in the realm of spirits, of which we are a part, but gave mankind authority over a physical creation until such time we return to Him. The spirit realm is more real than the physical we're used to. Imagine interaction with other astronauts, in space suits, on the moon. After divesting such clunky apparatus to do the same, it becomes easier. Though it be counterintuitive, the spirit realm from which all things are created (Hebrews 11:3) is much more tangible and "real" than the physical we're used to.

Good points M7.

Bible says there is a difference between the soul and the spirit:

Hebrews 4:

12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

Also, it has helped me to understand the body, soul and spirit this way:

Our body allows/enables us to interact with the world around us, our soul allows/enables us to interact/communicate with other souls through our mind, emotions and will; our spirits allows/enables us to interact/communicate with the God above. And, through God's Spirit in each of us, with each other - spirit-to-spirit, ie, the spirit bearing witness with our spirit, in prayer, suffering along with, worship.

It is only when our spirit has been born again, or made alive can this be possible. Only those who have a born again spirit can fully experience life as God intended it to be. And even then sin hinders, until the redemption of our bodies.

Amen.

Be careful using Ezekial 11 for getting the idea that God gives us a new spirit physically.

I find it interesting that Jesus Christ does not repair our spirit, but gives us a new one (Ezekiel 11:19).

Does he also then give us a new physical heart?

NIV
Ezekial 11:

19 I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh.

Eze 18:31

Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, O house of Israel?

Eze 36:26

I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

And these texts clearly refer to Israel, "O house of Israel," and "
[15 "Son of man, your brothers--your brothers who are your blood relatives and "the whole house of Israel," not the Christian.