Evidence for God from Science

Hey there, I've been putzing around this board recently, and have been intensely interested in... well, just about everything with regards to human nature, for a few years now.

First, the personal story.

I had a fairly normal childhood. Meaning, my family was just as dysfunctional as anybody else's. I went to public school, I took my standardized tests, I had my interests, etc.

I have precisely one memory of church in my youth, and it's nothing more than a fuzzy picture of sitting in some room listening to somebody ramble about some guy named Jesus.

Later I discovered that my parents were drawn away from the Church, for whatever reason. Something to do with not feeling as if the church actually had the 'right idea,' and the fact that, as they say, the majority of the services they attended were merely about raising money for the church, as opposed to the white-meat of Christian doctrine.

So I started to grow up, being fascinated with... well, just about everything. I've had a very diverse and rich youth, activity wise. But like I said, it was completely seperate from the Church.

The experiences I had with the Church? Well, I knew a few Christians. And they were weird. But I didn't let it bother me. I felt odd, when other kids would ask me if I went to Church, or talk about communion, and I would be sitting there, completely clueless. But that was okay. I had my own thing goin, and I was fine.

Then comes high school. Here comes science, here comes reason, there goes Christianity. The Christians I know are still weird. And what's more, they aren't rational!

"I'm against abortion."
"Why?"
"Because I'm Catholic."
"Why are you Catholic?"
"Because my parents are."

Airtight arguments there.

At this point, probably age 14 or 15, I begin to really struggle with faith. I don't know where I stand. I don't know what I believe. What's worse, I don't know what others believe, other than the drivel I hear about the Bible being some fairy tale and some Jesus guy supposedly doing impossible things.

So what's the conclusion then? Quite simply, I have no idea. I had strong leanings towards the idea of some sort of higher 'something,' that I guess could only be correctly referred to as God. But the true nature of it, Him, etc? Who knows.

At this point, I still think Christianity is hogwash. (It was at this point I started to think I might find something worth following in 'Deism,' but then quickly realized how little sense that made. Here's a faith that doesn't require prayer, or scripture... and yet they have an organized church that wants monetary donations??? Right.)

And I have plenty of evidence to back me up. Namely, the fact that many Christians that I know are hypocritical.

Then again, this is high school. And I'm as hypocritical as anybody, I just wouldn't deny it when pressured.

And here's where it all goes screwy. A good friend of mine is a very devout Catholic. But now that he's older, he seems to... make sense? He's one of the most caring, sympathetic, genuine people I've ever met? And he's logical?? Woah, something isn't right here.

And then the biggie. I fall for a girl. Hard.

Oh, did I mention her parents are born-again, and she's intensely devout? No sex before marriage? Hell, she didn't even kiss her first and only boyfriend before me. And as I get to know her, my beliefs were already along the agnostic-but-leaning-toward-some-deity side, and I began to pester her. Rib her on her beliefs. Find out what she believes, why she believes it, etc. Not to be mean, but because of a very real curiosity. And she handled herself wonderfully.

Well, my chronology is a bit reversed here, as I did start giving a little more credit to the apologetic side of things before I fell for this wonderful Girl. But I cannot downlplay the importance she has had in my downright fascination with the topic, and my search for truth.



To stop boring you with the details, I'm beginning to feel there's more to this Christianity thing than met the eye. I've always leaned toward the idea of a Deity, as it has always made more sense to me than the opposing viewpoint, in myriad ways. But now, I'm beginning to think that maybe, just maybe, this bible thing might be what I've been looking for?

I've read Lee Strobel. I've read C.S. Lewis. I've read Michael Denton arguing against macroevolution. I've read Hawking, Einstein, and everything in between. I will always be searching for answers in science, to the best of my ability. That search will never end, and my journey of discovery is going to continue the rest of my life.

But what I feel I've been missing? The personal aspect. I've heard the stories of criminals turning to God, of miracles, all that stuff. I've heard a few startling testimonies from some amazing people about why they've turned to God.

This is where I ask, nay, I beg of you that have found truth in Christ... what gives? Give me your story, give me your reasons, give me your anything! I've heard and seen so many personal accounts, but hardly any of them have actually, for lack of a better term, 'related' to me. Reading some random story written on the internet, or watching a random person talk about how they found the Bible in prison... these things are fascinating, but to me, something is lacking. They're papers, essays... they're practiced, rehearsed, designed to be heard by a large audience, and it is (obviously) impossible to have a one on one discourse about the topic like this.

And this is why I'm turning to this board. I've had a few amazing discussions, with many people, but I'd just really like to open this up to anybody, for all of our sakes. Mine, in the sense that I'm dying to hear the stories. Yours, in the sense that ya'll are probably dying to share, and everybody else's, in the sense that reading anybody's personal story is simply an enriching experience.

I apologize in advance for this stream-of-consciousness post.

Heya Snoogins,

Has anyone told that you are a good writer? You should develop that a bit . . . anyway, you asked for testimonies, so mine:

For better of for worse, my coming to faith in Christ was nothing less than expected. My great grandfather was a circuit preacher, both my mother's and father's families are devout Christians (for several generations back), and I was raised in a very conservative, Christian home. My earliest memories are at church. I can remember being at Pleasant Hill Baptist Church when I was maybe three or four playing on the playground with my best friend Steve. Across the street there was a Marriott, and being so young (my mom was just starting to teach me to read), I thought it said "Morrison" and proudly announced that my dad owned the building. I can remember being in that same church in "Children's Church" and hearing Mrs. Shelly (who has the same b-day as me) teach about why Jesus had to die on the cross.

Outside of church, I have very early memories in my home life of my family sitting in the den reading from the Bible. Dad and Mom would read us the stories, we'd ask questions, get answers, etc. We had this huge family Bible on the living room table that probably weighed ten pounds with a picture of Jesus on the front. There were Christian trinkets all over the house, and top all that off with my mom's philosophy of discipline: "What would Jesus think about that?" or "That would make Jesus sad." If I didn't know how to answer the question, I got a lesson. The statement was worse for me than the paddle, because, remember, this is the guy/God who had to die on a cross precisely because of what I had just done! Kids believe whole-heartedly what their parents tell them, and I had no reason to doubt. I loved Jesus with all my heart (how couldn't I? He was the most important thing in our family's life?), and the last thing I wanted to do was upset Him. I wanted Him to be proud of me like my dad was when I did something really great.

So, as I said before, it wasn't surprising that I came to the faith early. But, here's what is important, I think. I had been asking for sometime if I could "get saved." I knew I had sinned, and I wanted to "ask Jesus in my heart"--I wanted Him to forgive me so that I could really get to know Him like my parents did. They thought I was too young--I was only six--and the discouraged me for awhile. But, I persisted, and eventually, my mom took me to see Pastor Len. He and I talked, he found out that I was serious, we prayed, I accepted Christ, and that was that. I later found out that he told my mother that I was "the most Scripturally sound six year old" he'd ever met. I don't say that to pat myself on the back . . . I'm trying to convey how serious I was.

The thing is, most people would say it's just expected, but my conversion was just that: it was a conversion. You would think that someone who has grown up with Christianity their whole life, like I have, couldn't say too much of what it means to live without Christ. To an extent, that is true, but what is also true is that Jesus Christ is not just some religion to me. The thing is that I've been a Christian for about twelve years. You can grow a lot in twelve years, if you want to (think about how much you learn from first to twelfth grade). I did. I wanted to, and I did. I've come to a point where I actually can just talk to Jesus, and, believe it or not, He talks back to me. Not audibly, of course, but that doesn't mean I'm making it up or that it's just a figment of my imagination. Think about what communication is: some physical organ of yours collects some distinctive signals (sound waves, certain touches, light reflected a certain way from words on a screen), and those signals are interpreted by your brain to understand what concept you are being conveyed by the person who sends those signals.

Well, Christians have something that non-believers do not. We have direct access to the Throne of God. I can go into God's presence any time I wish . . . most Christians take that for granted, and I confess that I do at times, too. But, what I'm trying to say to you is that when I pray, very often (not always, but often), I get answers as the prayer is leaving my lips. Those answers don't come in the form of words, but I know just as distinctly as I know what my professors are saying exactly what it is God is trying to tell me. Other Christians on this board, I'm sure, will understand. They may not have had God answer questions immediately, but most, if not all, of us, have had answered prayers and experienced the "still, small voice" of God.

It's like trying to explain the way a sunrise looks to a blind man or the sound of the waves to the deaf. Some things can only be known experientially. That's why my testimony is all about. I was blessed enough to be raised to experience God. I know Him. I know Him better than I know my best friend. An atheist can argue that it isn't God I know, but rather some construct I've put together in my mind. To some extent, that might be true, but certainly not all of it. I have a personal relationship with God, and it isn't some magical thing where trances, chants, rituals, and such are required. I don't say "thee" and "thou" when I pray. Typically, I address Him as "Father" one time, and then just talk to Him.

For me, Jesus Christ is a best friend. He's a Big Brother I can count on, and He has never let me down. He is absolutely the only reason why I am where I am today, and I love Him for that. The sense of peace that comes from knowing Jesus is inexplicable. When you cast everything aside for His sake, and you simply put your trust in Him, even when you don't have all the answers, if you then listen, you'll hear as plain as day God say, "Good. You can trust Me." And, as time goes by, He vindicates that statement over and over and over. He does in my life all the time, and my faith grows stronger and stronger.

Anyway, that's enough about me. The tl;dr would just be this: I was raised with Christ; I was officially introduced to Him at age six; I've been walking with Him ever sense; I can't imagine that life would be worth anything without Him.

God bless

Hello Snoogins, the post is a bit late but here's a simple suggestion:

Just talk to God about the stuff that's bothering you most. If may seem a bit weird to do, just imagine there's someone else at the other end of the speakerphone.

As for my story - I've been drilled with Christian principles for as long as I can remember. I've had no reason to doubt that I can be separated from God's love.

Snoogins,

Just read your post today from Oct 23 and I wanted to respond. Hopefully you still have this thread marked to send you an email when someone responds.

A quick synopsis of me (then a few things for you):
I was raised Catholic for 18 yrs of my life. I'm 20 now and I no longer consider myself Catholic but Christian (for reasons it would be too long to write about here - can in another thread if you'd like). Like yourself, I grew up with a lot of questions stuck down in my heart. What's even more, I was always gifted towards math/science which created a certain rationality in my thinking. Thus, most Sundays at Church (wherein I would usually try to fight or fake being sick so I didn't have to go), I came across a plethora of questions. The Catholic church tends to teach you a lot of things without any explanations - hence the against abortion because I'm a Catholic scenario. Through a series of events, I started reading the Bible when I was 13 years old (due to an online gaming chatroom). I started finding some interesting answers to the questions I was having in scripture, which I took as truth (for some reason I never questioned scriptures verity - kind of a blessing in disguise). It actually says in the Bible that if you want to have proof that there is a God you can do one thing to be sure - obey His commands. If you do that, John 14:21 says that God will manifest (make known) himself to you. That's what He did in my life when I started obeying what I was reading.

Like the girl you've fallen in love with and her parents, I became a born-again Christian around when I was 16 years old (maybe even a little later). That's when I was at a Catholic retreat and decided that I wanted to follow Jesus with my life. The theme of surrender has repeatedly come up in my experiences with God and around age 16 Jesus chose to introduce that concept to me. I also fell pretty hard for a girl the last year of highschool. Took her to the senior ball and everything, my first real 'girlfriend' although we weren't officially that until 6 months later. As a side note, I also have virgin lips and thank God for them every time I remember.

I wasn't baptized for the remission of sins (Read from Mark 1:9-13 to understand some things about baptism) until age 18. I wasn't baptized with the Holy Spirit (Read from Acts 19:1-7 to understand some very important things about this type of baptism) until age 19. I could share with you some amazing experiences that the Lord has taken me through but it might be hard to relate from your perspective. I'll just say that God has manifested Himself to me in very real and tangible ways. Although, even if He hadn't, He'd still be worthy of my praise and receiving all the glory.

Where requested, I'd be more than ecstatic to fill in the gaping wholes in my testimony, but right now I'd like to throw a few things your way.

Hypocrites: There are actually no hypocrites in the Church (the Church is not the building, but the people). The word 'hypocrite' means 'pretender'. Hypocrites don't fool God. The Lord knows who are His children and He will separate the sheep (sons/daughters of God) from the goats (sons/daughters of the devil) - see Mat 25:32-33 and John 8:44 for references. Hypocrites or pretenders will end up in hell because they have not believed on the only begotten Son of God John 3:18, 36 .

That last sentence probably brought up a lot of emotions/thoughts in your head so, before you jump to any conclusions read the following:

Becoming a Christian is the most incredible event that will ever take place in your life. You have found peace with your Creator. You have found everlasting life! Be assured--God will never leave you nor forsake you. He has brought you this far and He will complete the wonderful work He has begun in you. God knows your every thought, your every care and your deepest concerns.

Let's now look at some of those possible concerns. First, and of primary concern -- do you have "assurance" of your salvation? The Bible says to "make your calling and election sure" (2 Peter 1:10, italics added), so, let's go through a short "checklist" to make sure that you are truly saved:

1. Are you aware that God became flesh in the person of Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 3:16, KJV), and that he died for the sins of the world?
2. Did you come to the Savior because you had sinned?
3. Did you "repent" and put your faith in Jesus?
4. Are you convinced that He suffered and died on the Cross and that He rose again on the third day?

God acquits us from the Courtroom of Eternal Justice on the grounds that Jesus Christ paid our fine. We are "justified" (made right with God) by His suffering death. The resurrection of Jesus Christ was God's seal of approval of the fact that His precious blood was sufficient to pay the fine.
Think of it this way... You have violated the law and face a $50,000 fine. You tell the judge that you are truly sorry for your crime, but he answers, "So you should be -- you have broken the law! Now, can you pay this fine?" He can only acquit you if the fine is paid. If someone else pays your fine, then he can let you go, but he must have "grounds" on which to release you.

The reason we need a substitute (a savior) to pay our moral "fine," is because we have broken God's Law. To see how much we have transgressed this Law (the Ten Commandments), we will go through some of them -- Have you ever told a lie? Have you ever stolen something? Have you ever lusted after another person? If you answered "Yes" to these questions, you admit that you are a lying, thieving, adulterer at heart, and you have to face God on Judgment Day! If you have used His name in vain, then you are guilty of "blasphemy" -- you've substituted God's holy Name for a curse word. Perhaps you've hated someone, then the Bible says that you are a murderer. You have violated God's holy Law, and you're in BIG trouble. On Judgment Day, you will be found guilty and end up in Hell. That's why you need the Savior. Merely being sorry for your sins, or confessing them to God won't help you. You must turn from sin (repent), and your faith must be in Jesus Christ alone. He is the only "grounds" for God to grant mercy towards you. If you're not sure of your salvation, make Psalm 51 your own prayer.

References: 2 Pet 1:10 , 1 Tim 3:16 , Psalm 51 .

Isaiah the prophet said, "The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will MAGNIFY THE LAW, and make it honorable." (Isaiah 42:21 - emphasis mine)
If I can submit to you a few things, if you really want to understand Christitanity, please take the time to review God's law. The ten commandments can be found in Exodus 20 - take the time to go over each one and meditate on it's magnitude. Scripture says that the fear of the Lord tends to life, he that has it shall abide satisfied, he shall not be visited with evil. Cultivate a humble fear of God in your heart, I guarantee that if you do the Lord will NOT leave you comfortless.

So, that's a bunch of stuff to read and think about. I'm not sure if you'll follow through with all of it, but if the Spirit of God is working in your life (which it sounds like that's the case) then He will prick your heart as you read over certain areas of this post.

Overview:
1) Obeying the Lord's commands guarantees you that He'll make Himself known in your life. Patience might be required here.
2) The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. ( Psalm 19:7 ).
3) The fear of the Lord combined with the law (10 commandments) will lead you to Christ Gal 3:24 . When you're at the foot of the Cross, you'll see everything in a new Light.

A neat saying: Take two tablets and call me when you're mourning.
(refers to the two tablets of God's law and I think you'll understand the rest). Thanks for taking the time to read all of this.

Dear friend,

I'll award you on finding Christ. In my time, I have tried to convert to many other religions ... runned away from Christ even. But the sensible person just feels it in their heart - I could not run away from Him.

For around $10, I would highly suggest a book for you:
"A Case for Christ" - by Lee Strobel.

Those flickering haunting thoughts we sometimes have about reason versus faith need healing. This book has finally and forever put my mind at rest - it presents scientific rational and tangible evidence for Christ.
If you can not afford the book, (as I couldn't first time!) and you would still like to read it, I will be happy to send you a copy if you return it to me when you're finished - or I will e-mail you a few exerpts.

In Christ,
Fr.A