Evidence for God from Science

What is the basic difference between the non-physical make-up of men and animals?

RGeeB wrote:What is the basic difference between the non-physical make-up of men and animals?

I don't know that the animal kingdom actually did anything wrong, but were cursed because of man or possibly were created as "animals."

Will my dog(s) that I love(d) be in heaven? I like to think so.

Opinions??
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I have my doubts that animals will be our animals will be in heaven. Few things on this:

Animals weren't made in the image of God, so something at their core is substantially different from human beings.

God did not breathe life into animals in the same way as He did humans. That is, humans are imbued with a soul, whereas animals are not.

The soul is eternal, this body is not. The resurrected body, though, will be eternal . . . animals don't have a soul, so there is no reason to believe that they would have resurrected bodies.

With that said, we do have verses indicating that some type of animal life will be in heaven. We have Isaiah's prophecy that the lion would lay down with the lamb (11:6; 65:25). Those verses, though, seem to be in reference to the millennial reign of Christ. So, the way I see it, we have two questions:

1) Can animals be resurrected and live eternally in the New Creation?

2) Will God create new, permanent animal life in the New Creation?

(1) seems unlikely to me, but C. S. Lewis things differently. He thinks it is plausible that our pets and such will be raised "in us" as we are raised "in Christ." Maybe, though it is certainly abstract.

There is just nothing to said in the Bible regarding (2) (is there?). If we take the few that the New Creation will be a restored version of this earth, then it seems that there will be. But, it is equally possible that it will be completely different . . . as different as wheat from the seed, to allude to Paul's argument.

tl;dr--no hard evidence one way or another. It depends on your personal view of what the New Creation will be like and if/how animals are "resurrected."

God bless

Jac3510 wrote:I have my doubts that animals will be our animals will be in heaven. Few things on this:

Animals weren't made in the image of God, so something at their core is substantially different from human beings.

God did not breathe life into animals in the same way as He did humans. That is, humans are imbued with a soul, whereas animals are not.

I don't know about this for sure...the translated words of Genesis 1:30 for the 'breath of life' is: neshamah chay in regard to animals and for Genesis 2:7 it is: nephesh chay in regard to Adam. On the surface this would seem cut and dry even for an uneducated person like me in the Hebrew language. Further more, Genesis 6:17 translated is: rucha chay in regard to "every" creature under the heavens...it states everything on earth will perish...and we know this includes humanity. Genesis 7:15 again mentions the breath of life and is the same as in 6:17.

Later in Genesis 7:22 the breath of life is again mentioned and translated as: neshamah rucha chay and this again is in regard to everything living on earth that had the breath of life in its nostrils...it even mentions men again.

However, there seems to be one of God's own that differs with the "immortal soul" given to man...that being the writer of Ecclesiastes. He regards the death of a man equal to the death of an animal. All have the same rucha...man has no advantage over animal.

Ecclesiastes 3:18-21 NIV wrote:I also thought, "As for men, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?"

Jac3510 wrote:The soul is eternal, this body is not. The resurrected body, though, will be eternal . . . animals don't have a soul, so there is no reason to believe that they would have resurrected bodies.

I believe that the above Eccl. text directly contradicts this...and futhermore, because sleep is used as the analogy for death...it brings it further to the side that we do die and remain dead...knowing nothing in the sleep of death. (Eccl. 9:5)

Mark 5:35-40 NIV wrote:While Jesus was still speaking, some men came from the house of Jairus, the synagogue ruler. "Your daughter is dead," they said. "Why bother the teacher any more?"

Ignoring what they said, Jesus told the synagogue ruler, "Don't be afraid; just believe."

He did not let anyone follow him except Peter, James and John the brother of James. When they came to the home of the synagogue ruler, Jesus saw a commotion, with people crying and wailing loudly. He went in and said to them, "Why all this commotion and wailing? The child is not dead but asleep." But they laughed at him.

John 11:12-15 NIV wrote:His disciples replied, "Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better." Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep.

So then he told them plainly, "Lazarus is dead, and for your sake I am glad I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him."

At least two people that were enjoying the fruits of heaven...or were they?

Jac3510 wrote:With that said, we do have verses indicating that some type of animal life will be in heaven. We have Isaiah's prophecy that the lion would lay down with the lamb (11:6; 65:25). Those verses, though, seem to be in reference to the millennial reign of Christ. So, the way I see it, we have two questions:

1) Can animals be resurrected and live eternally in the New Creation?

2) Will God create new, permanent animal life in the New Creation?

(1) seems unlikely to me, but C. S. Lewis things differently. He thinks it is plausible that our pets and such will be raised "in us" as we are raised "in Christ." Maybe, though it is certainly abstract.

Also...the account of Noah and the flood is another direct contradiction in this thinking...it is clear that the account of Noah is directly related to our salvation when Christ returns. The earth and all it's inhabitants were destroyed by water and Noah and his family, the "remnant" were saved...along with animals. Animals brought from the "previous" earth to populate the "new" earth. The water being the destructive (cleansing)force in Noah's day, and fire being the destructive yet cleansing force in the last day.

Jac3510 wrote:There is just nothing to said in the Bible regarding (2) (is there?). If we take the few that the New Creation will be a restored version of this earth, then it seems that there will be. But, it is equally possible that it will be completely different . . . as different as wheat from the seed, to allude to Paul's argument.

tl;dr--no hard evidence one way or another. It depends on your personal view of what the New Creation will be like and if/how animals are "resurrected."

God bless

As different as the wheat from the seed? This makes the assumption that what God (Christ) created 'In the beginning', was not good. Is not what God makes always good? Did God not make it perfect the first time? Or do we say, God made it good, but not perfect? If perfect, the same will be created again...perfect. The Bible tells us that God spread good seed...it wasn't God's imperfect world that collapsed, it was the enemy that came.

So these few 'arguments' give me reason that it is true...all dogs do go to heaven...this includes all our beloved pets.

If I'm wrong, then I lean on the promise of:

Revelation 21:4 NIV wrote:He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.

I find more reason to believe these things.
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I've had some people ask me if certain types of animals go to heaven (like dogs or horses). Really, they just don't want to let go of the bond and connection that they've had with that animal all their life - it's an unpleasant thought!

Question - what leaves the dog when it dies?

I heard a story about an old lady who called a hotline and told one of the guys that some Christians were telling her that she wouldn't ever see her dead dog again. She then asked the guy what he thought - well he was unsure but responded, "Knowing the father heart of Almighty God, I wouldn't be surprised when you got to heaven that He says, 'Remember that puppy of yours...'" She was estatic. The guy asked if she had a Bible - she didn't so he asked if he could visit and drop one off for her. She agreed, gave him her address and he had the pleasure of dropping off the Bible AND leading her to the Lord. The harvest truly is ripe!!

Hmmm. Well, humans deffinitly are set apart, but animals were meant from the begining, to be companions for man.

It's true, we can kill animals where we are forbiden to kill fellow humans, we can eat them, but eating eachother is an abomination. Sexual relation of any kind with animals is forbidden, while sex between a man and his wife is sacred.

Two views. A. animals are a simple possession, you cannot take possessions to heaven. Animals are not set aside by God as special... B. or are they? Gold, silver, plants, no other thing was suggested to be our companion, but animals were. Most species are not self aware, suggesting the absense of a soul, but the love of their companion ship would seem to be God's intention. Are we meant to be separated from our beloved animal companions? Many of whom are selfless and loyal (such as dogs)?

Is it really a problem for God to just give you your dog back when he creates the new heaven and earth? He is God. Why would it be any great feat to just recreate perfectly your four legged companion? No I don't believe animals have souls, or they are in any way equal to us, but God simply recreating your dog, sounds almost in line with scripture.

Genesis 2: 18-20

18 The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."
19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field.
But for Adam [8] no suitable helper was found.

I take all that to mean God does not consider plants to be equal to animals or rocks or anything like that. He gave Adam the choice of which should be his companion. (We all know God made woman because no suitable animal could be found. Man needed someone like himself (intelligent, capable of language, self aware, possessing a soul, ect, I'm sure.) Does that mean the meaning of animals was dropped? They stopped being more than just objects at this point?)

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Animals have not chosen sin, rather they, like the ground, were cursed because of man's sin. Animals are also God's creation...certainly not guilty of sin, but in sin as a result of man. God needs no legal basis to reconcile them to himself.
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Animals have not chosen sin, rather they, like the ground, were cursed because of man's sin. Animals are also God's creation...certainly not guilty of sin, but in sin as a result of man. God needs no legal basis to reconcile them to himself.

Yea but you'll notice plants and rocks ain't going to heaven. And I think you have to admit God deffinitly shows us favoritism over all creation, including every kind of animal.

But still, I can't remember where... doesn't it say in revelation God will create and new heaven and earth? Heaven seems to require have a soul... but a new earth... is there a possibility there?

edit:

I'm right, there will be a new earth

Revelation 21: 1-5

1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."
5He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."

Black Phoenix wrote:

Animals have not chosen sin, rather they, like the ground, were cursed because of man's sin. Animals are also God's creation...certainly not guilty of sin, but in sin as a result of man. God needs no legal basis to reconcile them to himself.

Yea but you'll notice plants and rocks ain't going to heaven. And I think you have to admit God deffinitly shows us favoritism over all creation, including every kind of animal.

But still, I can't remember where... doesn't it say in revelation God will create and new heaven and earth? Heaven seems to require have a soul... but a new earth... is there a possibility there?

Nobody really asked about plants going to heaven. Plus, I don't know of any plant uprooting itself and coming to the aid of a man.
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Nobody really asked about plants going to heaven. Plus, I don't know of any plant uprooting itself and coming to the aid of a man.

Hence, yes, there is definitely something special about them. (Mamals I'll assume you mean. Lizards and reptiles don't risk their lives for humans ever.)

But then again, do non-pets really seem to care at all about human life? I've heard many stories of Dolphins drowning humans in the wild. they're not always friendly. And don't you ever approach a bear or a moose in the wild without a gun if you value your life. Keep your distance. Animals usually don't seem to have any idea of what they're doing good or bad, in my mind, but dogs especially (I guess the case can be made for cats to) seem to be different. You could easily prove that not only do they selflessly defend humans, but they do so intentionally. They seem to exhibit many traits we assosiate with love.

If dogs indeed were meant to be our companions, I don't see it as a violation of any scripture that they have emotions, even if they get them from us.

I'm not sure what an animal's concern for human life would have to do with its entrance into heaven??

As for the comment that animals haven't sinned . . . on one hand, this is true, but on the other, you have to look deeper into the curse that God set on the world. Satan is, undoubtedly, the "god of this world." Notice that he offers to give Jesus the whole world if He would just bow down and worship him. Without question, at the present time, this world is under the control of the devil (he is, obviously, "on a leash" though . . . He can't do what God forbids).

So, the Bible says that to be a friend of the world (Satan's domain) is to be an enemy of God's. If you notice, this world--all of it--will be destroyed by fire. So, if we want to assume that animals go to heaven, we MUST assume that they get to take part in the resurrection. I just don't see any biblical evidence for that.

Jac3510 wrote:I'm not sure what an animal's concern for human life would have to do with its entrance into heaven??

As for the comment that animals haven't sinned . . . on one hand, this is true, but on the other, you have to look deeper into the curse that God set on the world. Satan is, undoubtedly, the "god of this world." Notice that he offers to give Jesus the whole world if He would just bow down and worship him. Without question, at the present time, this world is under the control of the devil (he is, obviously, "on a leash" though . . . He can't do what God forbids).

So, the Bible says that to be a friend of the world (Satan's domain) is to be an enemy of God's. If you notice, this world--all of it--will be destroyed by fire. So, if we want to assume that animals go to heaven, we MUST assume that they get to take part in the resurrection. I just don't see any biblical evidence for that.

A friend of the world??? We're talking about animals here right?

So someone who advocates "Green Peace" type of earth preservation (not necessarily their exact beliefs and tactics...but I think you understand the gist) or animal activism is an enemy of God? I'm misunderstanding you...right?!?

The Bible talks about how God "clothes" the lily's of the field...obviously even plants are God's creation and are looked after...how much more animals that can build a trust relationship with humans?

I'm all for the "All dogs go to heaven" thinking. I see absolutely nothing wrong with it nor anything in the Bible that says otherwise.
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Yes, you did misunderstand me. I was referring to the animal's position in a fallen cosmos. I'm not saying we aren't supposed to work at subduing this world--it was clearly assumed that Adam would continue to cultivate the world even after he sinned, given the nature of his curse. What I am saying is that the world, as a whole, has become hostile to God. Therefore, the world, as a whole, has to be destroyed, and that includes you and me, Bav.

The thing is, we were destroyed when we died with Christ on the Cross and raised again with Him in the newness of life. So, again, it's not about "you can't try to save the whales or you are sinning!" The only reason I used the "friend of the world" comment was to demonstrate its fallen nature.

So, I assert again: unless you are going to tell me that animals get to take part in the resurrection, I just don't see how they can be in heaven. It, of course, is possible that God will make new animal life, but I just don't see these animals being "saved." What would the criteria be? Does the Bible not say that there is no other name that leads to salvation except through Jesus Christ? But animals can't have faith . . . you've implied that an animal that loves/protects humans could get to heaven, but that means that animals have a "by works" salvation. But, that implies that they need to be saved, as if they have sinned, and we all know that works cannot save. So, if any animals go to heaven, then all must go to heaven. So where does it stop? What about bacteria? Ameoba? Plants? Algie?

I simply do not see a single reference anywhere in the Bible that implies that animals take place in the Resurrection. Further, the Bible says that this entire fallen world will be done away with. Therefore, I am inclined to believe that animals don't "go to heaven."

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As Calvinist as it sounds...I see "God's Good Purpose" as reason enough.

Animals aren't guilty of sinning as a choice, but were subjected to a life of "sin" as a result of man. Their "reconcilliation" is at the mercy of God without need of a savior.

It's funny we're "arguing" over if our animals are saved or not.

But this is my standing on them. It makes my kids happy too.
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haha, fair 'nuff for me. It's certainly not a big deal . . . I don't think in heaven we'll care all that much anyway, but I could be wrong. Only God knows, eh?