Evidence for God from Science

I dunno what to believe if i'm honest.
Brought up on christianity and kinda lean that way.

How do we get Judged?

Like i might prey once a week, give thanks and what not.
But 95% of my time on earth I'm a good, friendly, helpful, Nice person etc.

So am I judged for not believeing in God even though Iam a decent person
or

Is it all about being a nice person and as long as you are just that God will be cool with that?


Just bugging me thats all.

why do you pray once a week if you don't believe in God?

is it all about being a nice person...

once we know about God it becomes about more than just being a nice person.

There are two basic realities one much come to grips with in Christianity.

1 -- No matter how good you are, you have broken at least 1 of the 10 commandments. Most likely all 10(I know I have). And by God's perfectly holy standard, the penalty for any breach, no matter how small, is death. It sounds harsh to us, but the reason that we can so easily overlook sin is actually evidence of our <B>unholiness.</B> God, being pefect in character, cannot just overlook sin -- that would be forsaking justice, and He is a just God.

2 -- There is a way out! Having sinned, you owe a great debt to God. Now, you can choose to pay that debt yourself, but you already know what that means. Eternal, unending death -- that's just how horrible your offense is in the sight of God. Or else you can let <B>someone else</B> pay your debt, but not just anyone will do. He must be a perfect, spotless sacrifice. Someone perfect in every way. God Himself provided that sacrifice in the form of Jesus Christ(who is God). And the really baffling part? Jesus <B>wants</B> you to thrust the burden of your sins on Him. He died on that cross, essentially saying to all mankind "I would rather die than live without you."

That is the core of Christianity. There is no "basically good" person(all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags), but God loves us anyway and wants us to be reconciled. So no, your being a basically good person by <B>our</B> standards has nothing to do with being good enough in God's eyes. You can only be good enough in his eyes by shirking your sin onto the back of the Willing Sacrifice, Jesus Christ. Only then can God look upon you and not see your sin.

Another thing -- once saved, always saved. Our spirit is cleansed, but is still encased in dirty flesh, so you're going to slip up now and then. We will be given new, clean bodies someday, but that day is not today. That doesn't justify any sin you do, however -- it's simply meant to comfort you, and to enable you to not beat yourself up and to recover and press on.

Now for my advice:

Go over the ten commandments, and really think about the different ways you have broken them. Remember a couple things Jesus said, too -- lust is adultery; hatred is murder. Realize the commandments are much broader in application than they appear at first glance. And then think just how serious each offense must be in God's eyes for Him to levy such an awful punishment for breaking just <B>one</B> of them in any way. If God is perfect, and God is just, then our offenses must truly be more horrible thann we can imagine. Let it work on you -- it's not pleasant, but this is an essential step in humbling the sinner and preparing his heart to accept Christ. For me, it was the commandment against murder than finally got to me. The conviction felt <B>horrible,</B> but got me to turn to finally turn to Christ, which has allowed me to feel better than ever! You can read about my salvation experience in the "testimonies" thread. I think it's in the "Christian Chat" section of the forum.

Once convinced of your sin, and of just how serious it is, turn to the gospels. The gospel of John is highly recommended -- read a version that you can understand, too. Keeping in mind how horrible your sin is, and how offensive it is to God, start thinking "Christ did that for me!" when you get to the crucifixion part. Imagine Him saying "I would rather die than live without you." Powerful stuff.

If you're convinced of your sinfulness, and you believe that Christ really did that for you, just tell Him! There's no magic formula. Just let out a heartfelt prayer, turn away from your sins(repent), and turn to Christ and new life in Him.

Keep some things in mind, though -- the ultimate benefit of Christianity is eternal life. You'll be joining in a war, though, which means things aren't going to automatically be pleasant all the time. But you have the greatest of prizes to look forward to! If you keep "eternal life, happiness, and fulfillment" in perspective, it makes your current problems not seem so overwhelming. Trillions upon trillions of years of happiness make 70 to 80 years of not-so-happiness not seem quite so bad. Oh, you'll feel things deeply, of course(no getting around that), but you have the greatest thing <B>ever</B> to look forward to, and to help you recover and press on.

PS & LS thanks for hitting me back.
P_Son- Once a week was just an example- I meant i didn't go out my way to say a preyer every morning or every night.
I do it when I think _ yeh , .... nows right!

LShep-
Respect man, knowledgable head it seems.
It makes me just think that why would the God of the world make 'his' mankind only to have them live within these 10 'rules' and we get no choice its either accept these and follow them or u'll face 'death'.
So it is just like a man made a race of slaves to do what he wanted and if they didn't..........boom.......into this dark cold place you go.
The God i grew up knowing about was a big ol' friendly geeza who loved all and hated none. but i don't know now.
I'll read what you said and get back to you.



whats your thoughts on the Bible, The 'Holy' Bible being edited and changed over the course of time to suit Political matters?

Timathi Jay Edgar

peace,

he did give us a choice...Jesus. he knew how pathetic we were, so Jesus came to save us.

We were created in God's image, so God gives us a clear picture with those "10 rules" that shows up Who He is. These rules aren't arbitrary, or just made up special for us. They're a way of God revealing His own character to us, and showing us what perfect character is.

CS Lewis puts it this way -- the moral law is much like an owner's manual for the human body and spirit. When confronted with a machine, there is 1 proper way to use it, and numerous improper ways. When you use it properly, everything goes off without a hitch. When problems arise, they are simple enough to take care of. When you use the machine wrong, however, numerous things can happen. It might not do what it's intended to do. Or it might get the job done, but will undergo excess strain. And when it breaks down, it tends to be much more severe than the machine that was used properly.

When we disobey God's moral law, we're doing great harm to others, and to ourselves. People view lying as something that's "not too bad," but how many times has one lie led to another, and those lies led to greater evils such as murder and theft? All which could have been avoided if one person had just told the truth in the first place!

And about God casting people away -- how could He not if He is indeed just? If God isnt' just, then he can't be loving either. God doesn't <B>want</B> to cast anyone away, but He will if they insist on trying to carry their sin into His presence.

A simple definition of sin at this point -- anything that goes contrary to God's perfect character. God gives us many great gifts. Food, wine, sexuality, speech, movement, art, etc. etc. etc. But sin is the perversion of these things. Using them in ways that go against God's own character. And that is why He cannot stomach sin, and cannot allow it into His presence.

And again, I reiterate -- <B>God gave us a way to toss off the burden of our sins.</B> If we choose not to do so, then it is <B>by our own choice</B> that we separate ourselves from God. As it has been said -- There are some who say to God, "Thy will be done." And there are others to whom God says, "Have it your way."

yeh respect my little sheppard.
I liked that 'own character' talk.
Makes sense and easy to comprehend.

Basically- He chats Iam the best ( in the nicest way),
and the closest you humans can come to me is to follow the 10 commandments and stay 'true' to moral law' which will produce a happy and fulfilled life on earth and after you can come and chill up in heaven with the 'good' stuuf.
basically yeh?

Peace Boys and Girls.

PEACE wrote:yeh respect my little sheppard.
I liked that 'own character' talk.
Makes sense and easy to comprehend.

Basically- He chats Iam the best ( in the nicest way),
and the closest you humans can come to me is to follow the 10 commandments and stay 'true' to moral law' which will produce a happy and fulfilled life on earth and after you can come and chill up in heaven with the 'good' stuuf.
basically yeh?

Peace Boys and Girls.

When you are God, you have room to say that "I am the best." Also, no, Jesus doesn't say your works will you save you.

PEACE wrote:Basically- He chats Iam the best ( in the nicest way),
and the closest you humans can come to me is to follow the 10 commandments and stay 'true' to moral law' which will produce a happy and fulfilled life on earth and after you can come and chill up in heaven with the 'good' stuuf.
basically yeh?

Not quite.

See, nobody can keep God's moral law completely. The law represents a standard that we should aspire to, but also a standard that is impossible for us to attain. The only power the law has is to condemn, and to show us where we've fallen short.

You can do your best to keep the 10 commandments(and other moral laws in the Bible), and you'll always fall short on every single one. Let's say God went through it like a list after you died, and you had to live up to each one in order to enter heaven.

Many people have the false assumption that they can follow the last 6 of the commandments, the ones that deal with man's relationship to man, and ignore the first 3 and be okay.

Note the first 3 commandments, and how they have nothing to do with what we normally consider morality, and realize that they have <B>everything</B> to do with God's standard of morality. He listed them before the others for a reason!

#1 -- Put God first. Have no other "gods" before Him.
#2 -- No graven images. Literal idols, things, people, etc. can all fill this role. This is basically a more specific extension of commandment #1.
#3 -- Don't take God's name in vain. Don't use God's name as a curse word. Don't call yourself a follower of God if you're not(I was guilty of that for 13 years).

When people say "Can I just follow the 10 commandments and be okay?" they're most often asking "Can I just follow the 5th to 9th commandment, follow the 4th and 10th at my leisure, and throw the 1st to the 3rd to the dogs and be okay?"

See, the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 10th deal with man's <B>heart,</B> not his actions. You can <B>do</B> all the good stuff you want, but God sees straight to your heart and you can't fool Him. "For all have fallen...short of the Glory of God."

Basically:

The 10 Commandments are great to follow, and they give us something to work towards. We cannot perfectly follow them, though, and all have sinned and fallen short of God's perfect standard. No matter how much you try to follow them, you still need to realize your sinful condition, repent, and come to Christ in order to have a right standing with God.

word.......
Ima sinner- And i know I sin.
I know its wrong and I know i don't want to do it, but its a habbit, a routine, its the way its been for ages.
and Iam looking towards God, Jesus, the Bible, Chrisianity~ but I just want to make sure about things first~
It is alot to commit to God.
Its a change of 'ME' Really. ( suppose 'born again' kinda thing yeh)

Ima keep reading vo,
and tryna grasp the whole thing


- but i'm still worried that the HOLY BIBLE was just wrote by another man- Technically thats tru.

I don't pretend I know loads about anything yeh,
and all I know is I think that the Bible could have been Edited and changed/ rewrote in places to suit a particular group of people or something!!!!!!!
mayb?


Peace people stay well.

LS has been right on so far. Some of my thoughts are just reinforcing what he has says.

PEACE wrote:Basically- He chats Iam the best ( in the nicest way),
and the closest you humans can come to me is to follow the 10 commandments and stay 'true' to moral law' which will produce a happy and fulfilled life on earth and after you can come and chill up in heaven with the 'good' stuuf.

No, the closest we can become is to become perfectly blameless in the sight of God, by believing in His Son Jesus Christ, and accepting the forgiveness that Jesus offered everyone. And when we realize that we are forgiven and are justified, then God expects our love in return for His. It is then out of this love, that we will strive to follow God's commandments. Note that Jesus stated that the entire 10 commandments are based upon two universal commandments: Love God, and love your neighbour.

Check out 1 John 4, starting at v 7:

Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us. We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God. And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.
...
We love because he first loved us.

So you see that God is really all about love. Which leads directly to another question you had:

PEACE wrote:It makes me just think that why would the God of the world make 'his' mankind only to have them live within these 10 'rules' and we get no choice its either accept these and follow them or u'll face 'death'.

God made mankind with the ability to choose for themselves whether or not to follow Him. And that choice - that free will - is the basis for love. If we had no choice, we could not love God. That was God's awesome purpose; that we might all fellowship with God in personal, eternal, and mutually loving relationship with Him. The paradise of heaven is really fellowship with the Almighty God, and to me that's why Christianity rings true... To me, the promise of that destiny is too 'perfect' to not be truth.

PS Regarding the Bible, understand that the Bible itself claims to be the directly inspired Word of God. It claims to be God's very words conveyed to mankind. So really it's a package deal - either the Bible is true and we can have faith in Jesus and assurance of our salvation, or it's not in which case all bets are off. You can decide to believe in God or believe in the Bible first, but either way they come hand-in-hand. And really, why would our perfect creator have it any other way?

On the Bible being edited over the years:

There have been minor changes over the years, mostly due to language barriers, but the major points of Christianity have never changed. Those translate plenty clear enough. When you do find something that's not perfectly translated, it's usually something like the "Thou shalt not kill" commandments. The KJV says just that, but newer translations use the more specific(and more accurate) phrase "Thou shalt not <B>commit murder.</B> Which clears up a lot of the confusion such as the "But what about God killing so-and-so" questions.

As English speakers, we're actually very fortunate. We have many Bible translations to read and compare. There are also numerous classes you can attend, websites to visit, and other things you can use to compare our Bibles with the original Hebrew and Greek texts.

Our New Testament is really quite easy to verify the authenticity. It's only ~1900 years old, and we have documents from less than 100 years after the books were originally written!

Our Old Testament isn't quite so easy, but we now have the "Dead Sea Scrolls," which are over 1,000 years older than the oldest manuscripts we had prior to their discovery. With these old documents, we now know that the Old Testament has stood the test of time, not changing a bit(except for translation difficulties, of course).

Compare this to such things as Homer's works, "The Illiad" and "The Odyssee." People never question their authenticity, but the oldest documents we have for them come from over a thousand years <B>after</B> they were penned. So the Bible is actually on much sturdier ground than other historical works that we accept as valid and accurate.

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread, but the Bible actually stands up to historical scrutiny, especially the book of Acts. True Bible scholars now consider it foolish to consider the book of Acts anything other than historically reliable. New evidence from archaeology and anthropology is continually verifying dates and events that people who have read the Bible have known about for thousands of years.

Then you can look to prophecy. Bible prophecy is normally quite specific. Daniel predicted all of the empires up to the current period during the Babylonian empire. The Persians. The Assyrians. The Romans. And today's time of many countries without a clear empire. Yes, I know he didn't mention the rather large Mongolian empire, but Mongolia never overtook Israel, which is where Bible prophecy centers. If you look at all the nations that are one day supposed to invade Israel, according to...Isaiah, I believe, they're an exact match with today's Islamic-run countries. And there is no love lost between the Muslims and Jews. Go figure.

There are <B>intentional mistranslations</B> that you must be aware of, however. They are pretty obvious, though, if you know who did the translating. One such translation is the version used by Jehovah's Witnesses. Many words are mistranslated, or intentionally misleading, in order to back up statement they make that would <B>never</B> stand up under scrutiny of an accurate Bible translation. They translate the word for "cross" as "stake," for example.

Reliable translations are easy enough to find, though, so no worries. The King James Versions are mostly accurate(they'll suffice if you can't find anything else), though I'd strongly suggest reading another version like the NIV or "The Message" in order to clear up some things the KJV is vague on. Like the aforementioned "Thou shalt not kill" thing that nonChristians love to jump on. If you haven't heard of a particular translation, though, it's always best to do a little research into its background. Make sure it's not affiliated with any cults. Stuff like that.

respect u knowledgable heads.
So the Bible holds up- basically.

I heard talk of gospels being left out!
Stories being told before Christianity and then put into The bible with new names of people but the same stories!

Know of any truth in that.

Oh- another thing thats been on my mind-
Remember my knowledge is limited ...............

I thought Revalations was 'the end of days'.

and the 7 letters to the 7 churches was meant to symbolise the condition of the churches, peoples attitude to the churches, lil' predictions of Churches through out different periods of time through out our History.
I thought the last church reprented our churches today- peoples attitude towards them and how they gunna be sorta thing...

Then this geeza told me we hav'nt had any of the Churches yet because Revaltions only begins when Christ comes for a second time- or something like that-


U what!!!!!!!!!!!

That left me not knowing where 2 turn?


Help us out peoples.


Peace and good fortune 2 u all.

I believe you're referring to the "Gnostic Gospels," stuff like the Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Mary(Mary Magdelene, I believe). These weren't accepted into Biblical canon for a number of reasons. First, the authors couldn't be confirmed; nobody could say for sure where these writings came from. The gospels that were accepted have definite authorship by the people whose names they bear. The epistles were all letters to churches, and also have definite authorship. Second, they never received widespread popularity.

Note that the council that determined the Bible canon <B>didn't accept any new books into the accepted canon.</B> They simply confirmed, using a few basic principles, which books were canon. Historical accuracy, how widespread they were, stuff like that. The gnostic gospels(and many other works) didn't stand up to this test and were rejected. ((I don't have the exact criteria used with me right now, but will post it later when I have some more time, ok))

As for Revelations -- remember that John, who penned this book, sent the letter to the seven churches that are mentioned in the first couple chapters. Revelations isn't just end-times prophecy -- it also held messages relevant to the seven churches that it was sent to(that still apply tochurches today, in fact).

Safe.
Yeh it was the Mary Magdaline one that was one my mind.

Um.........
Revalations.......
So is the 7th letter to the last Church-
Meant to be our churches of today?

P.ca